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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    Positives Of The Union

    With lots of negative threads about whatís going on at the moment thought it might be interesting to hear positives of Scotland being in the union. Regardless of your views on independence it would be churlish to pretend there arenít any positives to the union.

    I just want to hear the positives, plenty of other threads to bring up the negatives. Hopefully we can at least make it past page 1 before the petty point scoring and thread being dragged off course.

    So, Iíll open the floor to everyone, particularly keen to hear from our pro unionists.


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    Well what about....no wait, sorry cancel that

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Well there is all the subsidies 😉
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    MOD contracts to build ships.
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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...s-for-scotland

    This will keep you busy for a while. Few years out of date now though.


    More businesses and jobs.
    Many thousands of Scottish jobs are connected to trade with the rest of the United Kingdom. For example, 200,000 Scottish jobs are supported by banking, insurance and finance, and the industry itself estimates that nine out of ten customers live in the rest of the UK.

    All the advantages of the pound
    As part of the United Kingdom, Scotland has one of the oldest, strongest and most stable currencies in the world, backed up by 31 million taxpayers and the strength of the Bank of England. It would not be possible to recreate todayís currency arrangements across two separate states. Staying within the UK is the only way to keep the pound we have now.

    Closest trading partners
    The United Kingdom economy is set to recover faster than every other G7 nation. As two-thirds of Scottish exports go to England, Wales and Northern Ireland Ė more than the rest of the world combined Ė putting up an international border with the rest of the UK would slow growth just as our economy is starting to take off.

    By staying in the United Kingdom, your money is safe and goes further.
    A bigger economy that protects us all.
    The United Kingdom economy is the sixth largest in the world. Our collective size, strength and diversity allow us to grow and succeed together, and help to protect jobs in difficult times. In 2008, for example, we were able to provide Scottish banks with support worth more than twice Scotlandís national income.

    Cheaper bills.
    The United Kingdomís financial standing helps keep interest rates low. That means cheaper loans and mortgages for you and your family. And because the costs of investing in Scotlandís energy networks and renewables are shared across the whole of Great Britain, staying in the UK would keep future energy bills for Scottish households up to £189* a year lower. *Source: Scotland analysis: Energy, HM Government, May 2014

    Safe savings and pensions.
    With Scotland as part of the United Kingdom, your savings in any UK bank or building society are protected by a guarantee of up to £85,000. And State Pensions are more secure because costs are shared by 31 million taxpayers across the UK.

    By staying in the United Kingdom, Scotlandís public services are more affordable.
    Shared public institutions.
    Scotland benefits from over 200 United Kingdom institutions and services, including: the BBC, the National Lottery, Her Majestyís Passport Office, Research Councils UK and the DVLA. An independent Scotland would need to create new public institutions, which would be complex and expensive.

    Lower taxes, higher public spending.
    As part of the United Kingdom, Scotlandís finances are much stronger with lower taxes and higher public spending. The UK Government estimates that the long-term financial benefit of staying in the UK is worth £1,400* every year to each person living in Scotland. *Source: Scotland analysis: Fiscal policy and sustainability, HM Government, May 2014

    More support for public services.
    As part of the United Kingdom, Scotland benefits from public spending that is around 10% higher than the UK average. This helps fund vital public services like health, education and transport. By staying in the United Kingdom, Scotlandís public services are more affordable.

    By staying in the United Kingdom, Scotland has a strong voice in the world.
    An influential voice in important places.
    The United Kingdom is a leading member of the UN and the only country in the world that is also a member of NATO, the EU, the Commonwealth, the G7, the G8 and the G20. As one of the EUís Ďbig fourí nations, the UK is more able to protect Scottish interests in areas like agriculture and fisheries.

    Protecting our people and promoting our interests.
    For centuries Scottish people have been at the heart of the United Kingdomís armed forces, which keep us safe at home and abroad. You can rely on help from over 200 embassies and consulates around the world if you get into difficulty. Scottish businesses are supported around the world by the UK. This includes successfully promoting Scottish exports such as whisky.

    Help for the worldís poorest.
    The United Kingdom is the second largest aid donor in the world. Our collective influence and reach means that we are helping to end extreme poverty, saving lives during humanitarian crises and making vital contributions to international peacekeeping missions. In response to Typhoon Haiyan in the Philippines, the UK helped one million people by providing food, water, shelter and lifesaving medicine.

    By staying in the United Kingdom, Scotland is stronger.
    We all benefit from being together.
    Collectively, the United Kingdomís four nations contain more than 60 million people and nearly 5 million businesses. This larger community provides more opportunities to succeed and greater financial security.

    A successful family of nations.
    For over 300 years, Scotland has flourished as part of the United Kingdom. Together with England, Wales and Northern Ireland, Scotland has created one of the worldís most successful families of nations.

    A strong Scottish Parliament.
    Scotland already has its own Parliament that makes decisions about hospitals, schools, policing and other important matters. From next year, the Scottish Parliament will be getting even more powers to set tax rates and decide if and when to borrow money.


    From the office of the Secretary of State for Scotland pre the 2014 referendum

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    What's so funny? Are any factually incorrect?

    It's the equivalent of a SNP White Paper, remember that one? Now that was funny.

    Seriously the original poster wanted to have a serious debate and your first and second posts have added nothing. Stay off unless you have an actual contribution to make.

    I'll post wherever the **** I want thanks. Yes the poster asked for positives. Not propaganda from the office of Alistair Carmichael in the months leading up to an Independence referendum. That's why I laughed.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
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    I'll post wherever the **** I want thanks. Yes the poster asked for positives. Not propaganda from the office of Alistair Carmichael in the months leading up to an Independence referendum. That's why I laughed.
    Enjoy your echo chamber.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    Enjoy your echo chamber.

    Nipped away for a cuppa there. Have a nice day

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    No genuine positives so far then?

    There absolutely must be!

    I've loads of English family and love 'em to bits but that wouldn't change with independence, I actually struggle to answer this question, any positives I think about would still be there if we were independent, even after independence we'd still have close links with our neighbours.

    Maybe combined resources of governmental departments?



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  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    No hard border

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    The fact Scotland is a net beneficiary from the UK treasury must be a positive to being in the UK, plus the free access across the border. I would have said EU membership, but, of course, that's been made irrelevant, though it was the main reason I voted No to independence in the referendum. If there's another vote, I will be a Yes.
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  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Why couldn't we use the pound again in a Indy Scotland?

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  14. #13
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    The strange thing about being in favour of Scottish independence and a remainer is that you find yourself in a slightly hypocritical position, making an argument one way in one debate and the opposite in the other.

    The main thing I can see as being in favour of the union is to have trade with our closest trading partners as frictionless as possible. It will never be in Scotland's interests to have England struggle and any issues with borders, currency etc will have an effect on our ability to trade with our closest trading partners whether we like it or not.

    Is it enough of an argument to remain in the Union? Not for me.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    The strange thing about being in favour of Scottish independence and a remainer is that you find yourself in a slightly hypocritical position, making an argument one way in one debate and the opposite in the other.

    The main thing I can see as being in favour of the union is to have trade with our closest trading partners as frictionless as possible. It will never be in Scotland's interests to have England struggle and any issues with borders, currency etc will have an effect on our ability to trade with our closest trading partners whether we like it or not.

    Is it enough of an argument to remain in the Union? Not for me.
    I don't see them as the same though, one is far more a political union than the other

    Anyway positives definately be the border issue (although that could be easily resolved with technology it you believe the current UK Govt....)

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  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    No currency exchange charges.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £1,789.68!



  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Itís amazing that no country that ever gets independence from the UK ever wants to go back. What on earth are the Irish, Australians etc thinking?


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  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    It’s amazing that no country that ever gets independence from the UK ever wants to go back. What on earth are the Irish, Australians etc thinking?


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    They are no longer classical colonies of an empire. Northern Ireland, as we know to tragic consequences, has over one million people who regard themselves as British; so that, even when Britain has contemplated cutting them loose, it is they who have demanded maintenance of the Union. This is different from all other examples of colonial rule, in which the colonised people didn't regard themselves as British. Australia and the other Commonwealth countries are independent in all but name, the British monarch being merely a figurehead, as here.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 23-06-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Itís amazing that no country that ever gets independence from the UK ever wants to go back. What on earth are the Irish, Australians etc thinking?


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    Do you think countries gaining Independence 100 years ago are relevant examples? Why?

    What similarities exist between them and Scotland in 2019.
    Last edited by James310; 22-06-2019 at 11:18 PM.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Callum_62 View Post
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    Why couldn't we use the pound again in a Indy Scotland?

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    We could, not in a formal currency union though.

    Just like we will use the pound if we get Independence for an undetermined period of time. But we will have the BoE setting our interest rates and monetary policy etc. We will have no lender of the last resort, we will be powerless as an independent nation in the event of a financial crisis.
    Last edited by James310; 22-06-2019 at 11:35 PM.

  21. #20
    Not one positive case for the Union on this thread yet.

    Ask any Scottish yoon why we should stay together and its either "cause I support Ranjurs" or eh, eh, eh.

    Independence does not end our friendship with England ffs.

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SkintHibby View Post
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    Not one positive case for the Union on this thread yet.

    Ask any Scottish yoon why we should stay together and its either "cause I support Ranjurs" or eh, eh, eh.

    Independence does not end our friendship with England ffs.
    So 55% of Scotland are yoons and support Rangers? I, ok then.

    What's the positive economic case for Independence?

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    So 55% of Scotland are yoons and support Rangers? I, ok then.

    What's the positive economic case for Independence?
    A small oil rich nation? Disaster looming

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  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkintHibby View Post
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    Not one positive case for the Union on this thread yet.

    Ask any Scottish yoon why we should stay together and its either "cause I support Ranjurs" or eh, eh, eh.

    Independence does not end our friendship with England ffs.
    The devil you know.

    A lot of people just don't want to take the risk. Berating those people for that won't make them feel more secure or make them come on board the good ship Independence..

    That's a plain and simple fact And no matter how many fjuk wits call them "yoons", say that they're traitors, or say that they hate Scotland, their fears will remain.

    I hope Nicola has a better plan to get these folk on board than some of the posters I've been reading recently.
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 23-06-2019 at 12:32 AM.

  25. #24
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    No war between 2 countries that were at each others throats for centuries. Ok, we've been drawn into conflicts that an independent Scotland would never have been involved in and we have been perpetrators in some seriously oppressive wars of colonisation so I guess the bad will out weigh the good.

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    At a time when the pound is as weak as it's been against the Euro [in last 10 years] ... and falling, I'm surprised anyone is arguing for it.

    With a post Brexit UK more dependent on overseas goods, after Boris has traded everything off, it will be worth less than a groat with a unicorns head on it!
    Space to let

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    It’s amazing that no country that ever gets independence from the UK ever wants to go back. What on earth are the Irish, Australians etc thinking?


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    I have seen this supposed point made a few times. It’s a shame it holds no water whatsoever.

    You, and others before you have referenced countries that were colonised who then sought independence. Fair enough.

    Scotland entered into a union. That’s very different.

    Doesnt really bother me, I’ve made my position clear a few times. I have no love of the union and I despise the pettiness of nationalism even more.

    But this nonsensical, facile point you’ve made and a few have made before you really has to stop. It is silly and misguidedly wrong, and obviously intentionally.
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  28. #27
    Coaching Staff Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callum_62 View Post
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    Why couldn't we use the pound again in a Indy Scotland?

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    Because Better Together said so.

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Scotland entered into a union. Thatís very different.
    I have no love of the union and I despise the pettiness of nationalism even more.
    .
    Would you be characterised as a nationalist for wanting your own country to decide whom we do or do not bomb?

    "Uniting the kingdoms of Scotland and England had been proposed for a hundred years before it actually happened in 1707.

    Suspicion and mistrust between the two countries had prevented the union throughout the 17th century. The Scots feared that they would simply become another region of England, being swallowed up as had happened to*Wales*some four hundred years earlier."

    Who would ever refer to Scotland as a region and not a country?

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  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Michelle Mone, moved to London. 😉


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  31. #30
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Ex labour MPs can still wrap themselves in ermine, and call themselves, Lord of somewhere or other.


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