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  1. #331
    Testimonial Due Just Jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Edinburgh has one of the best educated workforce’s in the UK. I don’t think we have to worry too much about a brain drain. People moving for work to England or wherever is not a bad thing. For every person that moves south there is one moving north to work here. That is a good thing.
    And anyone who has a degree and chooses to work in Edinburgh will soon find there are plenty of career opportunities here.


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    as I said, I don't have figures but i would very much doubt that it's 1:1 for leaving scotland and coming to Scotland.

    there is work in some fields but it's also easy to say there's work in Edinburgh if you want it because Edinburgh is fast becoming too expensive for many people to live but that's another debate.

    Scotland needs to get better at keeping it's young people

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  3. #332
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Edinburgh has one of the best educated workforce’s in the UK. I don’t think we have to worry too much about a brain drain. People moving for work to England or wherever is not a bad thing. For every person that moves south there is one moving north to work here. That is a good thing.
    And anyone who has a degree and chooses to work in Edinburgh will soon find there are plenty of career opportunities here.


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    The civil service within Scottish Government is rammed with English people and Northern Irish too. I don’t have the figures at hand but I would put my mortgage on them being over-represented proportionally. Same with NHS management in Scotland and I would be surprised if that didn’t extend further in government and non departmental public bodies.

    Edinburgh and its environs are certainly attractive for those in the public sector.
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  4. #333
    Unionist commentator Alex Massie in The Times. I quite like his stuff even though he’s obviously infused with the stuff of Tory posh boy.



    How do you talk about the Union — and unionism — without seeming ridiculous? I ask this because it seems to me that this is something to which it appears neither Boris Johnson nor Jeremy Hunt has given much thought, and because this is a problem for unionism that matters rather more than the question of which of these men becomes the next prime minister.

    It has become commonplace for Conservatives to blather on about “our precious Union”. I am afraid this is guff. It is not a piece of delicate china and every time I hear an English Tory politician talk about this “precious Union”, I’m afraid my instinctive reaction is to assume they know little — or even less than that — about what they are talking.

    At least Hunt, however, gives the impression of being a unionist. Visiting Scotland last week he was asked whether unionism or Brexit was the greater priority and answered: “The Union every time.” That is not something Johnson could honestly say — though asking the former foreign secretary for honest views is a request subject to increasingly miserable returns — given his insistence that the UK must leave the EU by Halloween come what may, “do or die”. Johnson argues, against all the available evidence, that Scots will come to love Brexit.

    This being so, it was little surprise last week when this newspaper reported that 53% of Scots might vote for independence if Johnson becomes prime minister. That remains a doubly hypothetical scenario, of course, but it is one that should give the Tories some pause for thought. There is a reason Ruth Davidson is in the “anyone but Boris” camp and also, therefore, a reason why she is, if not in despair, then very far from gruntled by the turn recent events have taken in her party.

    Davidson’s despair is understandable. The Conservative and Unionist Party in Scotland is a unionist entity more than it is a Conservative one. They order matters differently south of the border where, according to an opinion poll published by The Times, 63% of Tory members would accept Scottish independence if that were the price required to achieve Brexit. With friends like these, Davidson has no need for enemies, and with polls like these, it’s no wonder many Scottish Tories feel themselves the last adherents to an old-time religion rejected by some of those they had previously considered co-keepers of the faith.

    This is not an overnight development either. Rather it reflected a process of mental disengagement evident on both sides of the border. There is an impatience with Scotland in England and, increasingly, a sense that if the Jocks wish to bugger off, then perhaps it’s time they got on with it. It would be a sad end to an old song, but if that’s the way it is, then that’s the way it is.

    No wonder, too, that you increasingly suspect the argument for independence is being made more forcefully in London than in Edinburgh these days. To adapt an old saw: Scotland isn’t leaving Britain, Britain is leaving Scotland. Well, perhaps. Independence would be an expensive business but so is Brexit, and there’s a very good reason unionists oppose a second independence referendum: they think, or at any rate they fear, they might lose it.

    Here we may pause to note a certain irony: the reason Sturgeon has effectively parked the referendum question for the time being is that she too fears she might lose a plebiscite if it were held next year.

    Both sides appreciate that the next referendum is for keeps and the risks of losing it currently outweigh the attractiveness of winning it. Hence the uneasy, phoney feel of Scottish politics just now. Everyone is waiting to see which way events tip the scales. Still, we too easily forget just how unusual a country the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland really is. It has a trinitarian quality; its component parts are necessarily distinct yet also — at least notionally — indivisible. That is, it exists as a coherent whole even as its parts enjoy their own particular and individual identities.

    There are plenty of Scottish nationalists who scoff at this. The UK is, they maintain, a wholly invented tradition. A contrived idea whose time is up if, indeed, it ever had a time. There is some truth in this, even if acknowledging it also requires us to admit that Scotland, like England, is an imagined tradition and a manufactured identity, too.

    But even if you allow that the UK, as an idea, was constructed in the centuries following the Union of the Crowns in 1603 and then, of course, parliamentary union in 1707, it bears mentioning that it is an idea significantly more ancient than the ideas, or imagined communities, that define most other countries. Indeed, the borders of Scotland were not finalised until 1472 when Orkney and Shetland were annexed by James III. Viewed through that historical prism — though others are available — Scotland has known Union for longer than a completed Scotland existed as an independent state, and the idea of Britain has existed for nearly as long as Scotland was a coherent entity in the centuries before Union.

    And endurance is, in the end, the Union’s greatest strength and, perhaps, its greatest quality, too. The case for its preservation can be made on many grounds, but the firmest of these rests chiefly upon its antiquity. It is one of those permanent things that give a shape and a meaning to a society.

    The classical Tory argument for it goes beyond mere utilitarianism, however. It recognises the importance of ancient ties and institutions hundreds of years in the making. These increase in value with age. It is, in one sense, a circular argument: the Union is valuable because it has endured and it endures because it is valuable.

    Awkwardly, you can’t really put that on the side of a bus. Equally awkwardly, if the Union did not exist today there would, most likely, be precious few calls for creating it. But it does exist and for many Scots it remains a real and important presence in their lives and their sense of themselves. Something better felt than said, however, and therein lies unionism’s problem.

  5. #334
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    IIRC the turnout for the Brexit referendum was comfortably over 70% of the electorate, which was higher than the 2017 General Election, so there's no real mileage in claiming that the result was not a decent reflection of public opinion. FWIW the most recent Scottish Parliamentary elections only attracted something like 55% of the Scottish electorate so arguably less of an accurate reflection of opinion in Scotland. Referencing 26.4% of the UK population doesn't really wash either, bearing in mind that millions of those people are not of voting age. Bottom line, the Brexit result may not have been emphatic, but was decisive (ie it produced a definite result).

    A generation is generally reckoned to be 25 years, which sounds about right to me in terms of having another independence referendum Salmond's exact words back in 2014 were "In my view this is a once in a generation - perhaps even once in a lifetime - opportunity" so he clearly felt it was a long-term thing. But judging by the reaction of yes voters to the result you'd have thought a generation lasted about an hour...

    It matters not one jot what Salmond said in 2014.

    We are talking about here and now in post BREXIT referendum 2019.

    Independence supporting parties keep getting elected. There’s your mandate.

    J

  6. #335
    One benefit must be the great road network that’s been built to connect our Towns & Cities .

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