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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I think you may be overestimating the value of pissing people off to win them over for your cause. In fact I'd go as far as to say that logic makes no sense whatsoever.
    My point is, they're not winning people over anyway, regardless of what they do. So why is it going to matter to them if they anger people now? It literally makes no difference what approach they take now.

    I know you don't like it from the perspective of someone stuck in the traffic, but try seeing it from their perspective. They've got nothing else left that they can try.


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  3. #32
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    The suffragettes pissed a lot of people off, but if they hadn't, when would they have been given a vote?

    Women in Portugal weren't allowed to vote until 1976! Saudi Arabia women voted for the first time in 2015!

    When the UK would have changed the legislature if it wasn't for the suffragettes and Emily Davidson killing herself under the king's horse is anyone's guess.

    Direct action is sometimes the only way to get heard.
    These were all causes seeking recognition. The vast majority of people in Scotland already agree that there needs to be change and have voted in a government that is proactive in achieving that. In Scotland at least were beyond the need for recognition, education, law change and compliance is the way forward. All in my own opinion of course.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    These were all causes seeking recognition. The vast majority of people in Scotland already agree that there needs to be change and have voted in a government that is proactive in achieving that. In Scotland at least were beyond the need for recognition, education, law change and compliance is the way forward. All in my own opinion of course.
    Women were 50% of the population so I think the issue was widely recognised.

    Politicians are paying lip service to the climate change issue. They're too scared to make any meaningful changes because it will be costly.

    My hope is that it's a natural cyclical phenomenon which will correct itself before it's too late for humanity because we're not going to do anything to remedy it until it's too late.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    I agree it will happen eventually. But it hardly needs our help speeding the process up. Why make something happen in 100 years when it can take a billion years instead?
    The human race could never create a runaway greenhouse effect. Weíd all be dead before we could get to within 10% of a runaway greenhouse effect and the planet would recover naturally without us. Thereís an enormous difference between man made climate change and a runaway greenhouse effect. The planet can recover fairly easily from one and not the other.

    United we stand here....

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    The suffragettes pissed a lot of people off, but if they hadn't, when would they have been given a vote?

    Women in Portugal weren't allowed to vote until 1976! Saudi Arabia women voted for the first time in 2015!

    When the UK would have changed the legislature if it wasn't for the suffragettes and Emily Davidson killing herself under the king's horse is anyone's guess.

    Direct action is sometimes the only way to get heard.
    That would be relevant if the government wasnít already taking action on the issue. Scotland could well be one of the first carbon neutral countries in the world. The suffragettes were fighting the government for something that was being unfairly denied to them.

    United we stand here....

  7. #36
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    That would be relevant if the government wasnít already taking action on the issue. Scotland could well be one of the first carbon neutral countries in the world. The suffragettes were fighting the government for something that was being unfairly denied to them.
    Pretty much the point I made but I threw in some extra pish for effect.

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    I have a certain amount of sympathy with their cause, despite being delayed twice today.

    However in protesting about climate change have they considered the extra pollution the protest is causing? Own goal?

    They're protesting about oil companies. How many oil company people are based in Edinburgh? I'm not sure there's any. So effect on oil companies nil, effect on the population of Edinburgh - enough to turn many against their cause. Own goal at best, probably a sending off too.

    The representatives I've heard on the radio don't have local accents, not even Scottish. How did these people get here? I hope it wasn't courtesy of fossil fuels! Another own goal?

    It's a protest that fails on so many levels. They're lucky they achieved nil!
    Climate change is bigger than a few cars idling.

    The effects of climate change will be the cause of the Wars our grandchildren will be fighting and dying in.

    We have the technology now (wind, wave, tidal, solar, biomass), just no political will. This is our home we are talking about.

    J

  9. #38
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    That would be relevant if the government wasnít already taking action on the issue. Scotland could well be one of the first carbon neutral countries in the world. The suffragettes were fighting the government for something that was being unfairly denied to them.
    Are they really taking it seriously?

    This a government who wants indy, and as far as the last time went, based a huge proportion of their economic argument on selling oil and gas.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    There is no way we are taking this seriously enough. The Scottish govt is doing better than most but there is a lot more they can do. If it takes a bit of disruption to peoples lives then so be it.


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  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    The human race could never create a runaway greenhouse effect. Weíd all be dead before we could get to within 10% of a runaway greenhouse effect and the planet would recover naturally without us. Thereís an enormous difference between man made climate change and a runaway greenhouse effect. The planet can recover fairly easily from one and not the other.
    What difference does it make if weíre all dead? This isnít about preventing runaway green house effects. Itís about preventing extinction.

  12. #41
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    Surprised they're allowed to camp in the park.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Wait till they block Eastfield road when everyone is trying to get to their summer holidays.


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  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Wait till they block Eastfield road when everyone is trying to get to their summer holidays.


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    Itíll be summer all year round soon enough so they can always choose another time.

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    That would be relevant if the government wasn’t already taking action on the issue. Scotland could well be one of the first carbon neutral countries in the world. The suffragettes were fighting the government for something that was being unfairly denied to them.
    We're being denied a clean, healthy planet which has a future, and votes for women will be irrelevant if we don't stop killing it.

    I know that some action is being taken, but I believe that because it's not seen as an immediate threat, people just aren't serious enough about the subject.
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  16. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Itíll be summer all year round soon enough so they can always choose another time.
    How will that be possible when we are about to enter a solar minimum? Less sun activity as recorded by NASA suggests were about to go into a new ice age.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    What difference does it make if weíre all dead? This isnít about preventing runaway green house effects. Itís about preventing extinction.
    Youíre right, but using Venus as a comparison isnít being helpful to the debate. People need to be given cold hard facts, but as is always the case in this sort of debate we have experts from every side of the argument giving wildly differing opinions to try and scare/reassure the general public in order to gain support for their own particular cause.

    United we stand here....

  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    We're being denied a clean, healthy planet which has a future, and votes for women will be irrelevant if we don't stop killing it.

    I know that some action is being taken, but I believe that because it's not seen as an immediate threat, people just aren't serious enough about the subject.
    When you say people are serious enough about it, which people do you mean? We live in a small country thatís doing more than most, while the biggest polluters on the planet bash on regardless doing practically nothing. We will eventually live in a carbon neutral country in Scotland and no matter how quickly we get there, without the will from the likes America and China were basically pissing against a hurricane.

    United we stand here....

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
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    Are they really taking it seriously?

    This a government who wants indy, and as far as the last time went, based a huge proportion of their economic argument on selling oil and gas.
    I think they are. We canít just stop selling oil and gas, but proceeds can be used to diversify into cleaner forms of energy.

    United we stand here....

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    We're being denied a clean, healthy planet which has a future, and votes for women will be irrelevant if we don't stop killing it.

    I know that some action is being taken, but I believe that because it's not seen as an immediate threat, people just aren't serious enough about the subject.


    Brexit? Meaningless.
    Womenís votes? Meaningless
    Menís votes? Meaningless.
    Hibs? Meaningless.

    Nothing matters unless we ensure survival. It is a simple as that.

  21. #50
    If climate change doesnt get us something else will . The dinosaurs didnt have cars and electricity .. where are they now ?

  22. #51
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    If climate change doesnt get us something else will . The dinosaurs didnt have cars and electricity .. where are they now ?
    Running the country?

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    When you say people are serious enough about it, which people do you mean? We live in a small country that’s doing more than most, while the biggest polluters on the planet bash on regardless doing practically nothing. We will eventually live in a carbon neutral country in Scotland and no matter how quickly we get there, without the will from the likes America and China were basically pissing against a hurricane.
    I understand all that and you're right.

    Climate change/the environment ranks well down the list of issues facing the country which the electorate think are the most important.

    In this politico survey, 17% of those polled in London listed it as one of the 3 most important issues, only 14% in Scotland did so.

    Our politicians will focus their attention on the issues higher up the list and we've also got climate change deniers, so that's why I wish people thought it was more serious.
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  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Youíre right, but using Venus as a comparison isnít being helpful to the debate. People need to be given cold hard facts, but as is always the case in this sort of debate we have experts from every side of the argument giving wildly differing opinions to try and scare/reassure the general public in order to gain support for their own particular cause.
    Iím not sure there are two sides of this debate anymore, if there is a second side it is tiny, and a lot smaller than before.

    The issue is that people are aware, but they just donít care.
    Or they donít care enough, if they did then we wouldnít be talking about protestors

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I think they are. We canít just stop selling oil and gas, but proceeds can be used to diversify into cleaner forms of energy.
    Why can we not?

    Because money talks.

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
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    Why can we not?

    Because money talks.
    Because it would collapse the economy, leaving less money to bring in environmental changes.

    United we stand here....

  27. #56
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    Climate change is bigger than a few cars idling.

    The effects of climate change will be the cause of the Wars our grandchildren will be fighting and dying in.

    We have the technology now (wind, wave, tidal, solar, biomass), just no political will. This is our home we are talking about.

    J
    Every little helps as they say.

    In the same light you could say as an insignificant player in the global scheme of things and already doing more than most in the west, indeed almost anywhere, demonstrating in Edinburgh/Scotland is wasting everyone's time.
    Space to let

  28. #57
    Testimonial Due hibby6270's Avatar
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    Drove past them last night in my gas guzzling 3 litre diesel and gave them a wave. There was a mini stage set up and some sort of festival of music going on. Quite big on site police presence as well.

    What did surprise me though was the sight of Oor Wullie sitting on his bucket planted right outside the Parliament building. Always was a wee rebel that one!!

  29. #58
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Because it would collapse the economy, leaving less money to bring in environmental changes.
    Aye so money talks...

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
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    For all those complaining about the protestors. Here is a petition petitioning the Scot Govt to make changes faster https://t.co/3OHU1vhFEz

  31. #60
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
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    Aye so money talks...
    Sadly it does.

    United we stand here....

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