Strict Liability - That will be that then

[The Harp Awakes]

The game is truly ****ed with this clown at the helm:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48500853

[BoomtownHibees]

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The game is truly ****ed with this clown at the helm:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48500853

I don’t like him much but have to agree about the strict liability part

Hibs being punished for the actions of 1 or 2 individuals wouldn’t be right imo

[Wilson]

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The game is truly ****ed with this clown at the helm:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48500853

I don't like Doncaster but this is the only thing he has ever said that I actually agree with

[Onion]

... but 39 clubs agreed that 2 clubs should be held responsible

[marinello59]

He’s right.

[The Modfather]

Easy for Donkey Doncaster to say strict liability isn’t the answer while not giving any solutions himself.

A joke that the clubs, ours included, keep him in a job.

[Hermit Crab]

We don't want liability, we would get done every other week for smoke bombs and pitch encroachment.

[Monts]

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We don't want liability, we would get done every other week for smoke bombs and pitch encroachment.

Would we? Or would people stop doing those things?

[Hermit Crab]

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Would we? Or would people stop doing those things?

Unlikely.

[Bristolhibby]

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Unlikely.

If the team lost points it would stop overnight. The fans would enforce it.

J

[Bangkok Hibby]

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Would we? Or would people stop doing those things?

Very unlikely. A55holes seldom have the brain power to consider consequences.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Very unlikely. A55holes seldom have the brain power to consider consequences.

The Old Huns (who I think we can all agree were followed by a support with an unsurpassed level of ********ry) stopped singing about the Pope and Fenian blood when under threat of punishment from UEFA. I don't see how Donkey can say that didn't work? It's the only thing that's ever worked with those bigoted muppets.

[BILLYHIBS]

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We don't want liability, we would get done every other week for smoke bombs and pitch encroachment.

Celtic and The Rangers dont want it either and I think that is the whole point of the matter but UEFA has it! 😁👍🏾

[JimBHibees]

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The game is truly ****ed with this clown at the helm:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48500853

Well there goes any attempt to stop mainly Rangers signing sectarian songs. Absolute nonsense it doesnt work anywhere UEFA fined Rangers for singing songs the club crapped themselves and suddenly they were telling fans not to sing them and it pretty much stopped. Now no responsibility by the authorities, you struggle to get anyone of any importance actually agreeing it takes place at all. The biggest issue in Scottish football isnt a couple of numpties throwing coins or fronting up a player it is thousands of people singing mainly illegal songs in every game without any recourse or responsibility for that club. Shameful IMO especially the other clubs.

[The Harp Awakes]

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Well there goes any attempt to stop mainly Rangers signing sectarian songs. Absolute nonsense it doesnt work anywhere UEFA fined Rangers for singing songs the club crapped themselves and suddenly they were telling fans not to sing them and it pretty much stopped. Now no responsibility by the authorities, you struggle to get anyone of any importance actually agreeing it takes place at all. The biggest issue in Scottish football isnt a couple of numpties throwing coins or fronting up a player it is thousands of people singing mainly illegal songs in every game without any recourse or responsibility for that club. Shameful IMO especially the other clubs.

Agreed.

If Doncaster genuinely believes strict liability will not work, what's his alternative? Nothing it seems as 'there's problems in other parts of Europe'. What a cop out, a complete lack of leadership and abdication of responsibility.

[neil7908]

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Agreed.

If Doncaster genuinely believes strict liability will not work, what's his alternative? Nothing it seems as 'there's problems in other parts of Europe'. What a cop out, a complete lack of leadership and abdication of responsibility.

Exactly. I'm for strict liability but accept that it's not perfect.

If it's not the answer then what is? What is Doncaster going to do to stop sectarian hate being spewed every Saturday by thousands?

[BILLYHIBS]

Back to 3000 Old Firm morons spewing out their sectarian bile at us for ninety minutes without reproach

Nothing changes but hey it’s Scotland!

Absoluute disgrace we will forever be stuck in the 17th century

The bigots win again

[Sylar]

He's the antithesis of progress for our game, but I agree with him here.

Say it's brought in, and we're at the last game of the season - Celtc are chasing 10 in a row, are level on points with Rangers, and a win secures Celtc the title. The majority of Rangers fans will be rightly watching their own team, but let's say a small band of them decide to provide a bit of insurance. They don Celtc tops for the day, go to wherever Celtc are playing their game and behave like complete dicks - invading the pitch, assaulting players, throwing smoke bombs, screaming all types of abuse...under strict liability, that could result in points deductions and impact the integrity of the league.

It's too easy to manipulate and doesn't deal with the root problem. Quite what the solution is, I don't know, but strict liability is a system to be weaponised.

[CentreLine]

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He's the antithesis of progress for our game, but I agree with him here.

Say it's brought in, and we're at the last game of the season - Celtc are chasing 10 in a row, are level on points with Rangers, and a win secures Celtc the title. The majority of Rangers fans will be rightly watching their own team, but let's say a small band of them decide to provide a bit of insurance. They don Celtc tops for the day, go to wherever Celtc are playing their game and behave like complete dicks - invading the pitch, assaulting players, throwing smoke bombs, screaming all types of abuse...under strict liability, that could result in points deductions and impact the integrity of the league.

It's too easy to manipulate and doesn't deal with the root problem. Quite what the solution is, I don't know, but strict liability is a system to be weaponised.

I really don't see it as that simple. If it was that easy fans of opposing clubs would be doing this at European matches, after all that is where the big money is.

Right now the clubs that might be affected are largely in control where their ticket allocation for SPFL matches go.
Both The Rangers and Celtic and to a large extent Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts, have a sufficient registered fan base to fill their allocation for any away game. It would take a fair bit of collusion from home supporters to allow a malignant group of fans to get tickets and that is unlikely. This argument is a red herring that is rolled out by clubs afraid of the consequences of strict liability, in particular, the two large Glasgow clubs who rely on outpouring of hatred to keep their fan base numbers.

[JimBHibees]

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I really don't see it as that simple. If it was that easy fans of opposing clubs would be doing this at European matches, after all that is where the big money is.

Right now the clubs that might be affected are largely in control where their ticket allocation for SPFL matches go.
Both The Rangers and Celtic and to a large extent Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts, have a sufficient registered fan base to fill their allocation for any away game. It would take a fair bit of collusion from home supporters to allow a malignant group of fans to get tickets and that is unlikely. This argument is a red herring that is rolled out by clubs afraid of the consequences of strict liability, in particular, the two large Glasgow clubs who rely on outpouring of hatred to keep their fan base numbers.

Totally agree.

[JimBHibees]

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He's the antithesis of progress for our game, but I agree with him here.

Say it's brought in, and we're at the last game of the season - Celtc are chasing 10 in a row, are level on points with Rangers, and a win secures Celtc the title. The majority of Rangers fans will be rightly watching their own team, but let's say a small band of them decide to provide a bit of insurance. They don Celtc tops for the day, go to wherever Celtc are playing their game and behave like complete dicks - invading the pitch, assaulting players, throwing smoke bombs, screaming all types of abuse...under strict liability, that could result in points deductions and impact the integrity of the league.

It's too easy to manipulate and doesn't deal with the root problem. Quite what the solution is, I don't know, but strict liability is a system to be weaponised.

Old firm fans generally find it difficult to get tickets and they need to be season ticket holders. Also Scotland is a small village and it wouldnt be long in identifying Billy McBoyne in a celtic top for a day.

[Bristolhibby]

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He's the antithesis of progress for our game, but I agree with him here.

Say it's brought in, and we're at the last game of the season - Celtc are chasing 10 in a row, are level on points with Rangers, and a win secures Celtc the title. The majority of Rangers fans will be rightly watching their own team, but let's say a small band of them decide to provide a bit of insurance. They don Celtc tops for the day, go to wherever Celtc are playing their game and behave like complete dicks - invading the pitch, assaulting players, throwing smoke bombs, screaming all types of abuse...under strict liability, that could result in points deductions and impact the integrity of the league.

It's too easy to manipulate and doesn't deal with the root problem. Quite what the solution is, I don't know, but strict liability is a system to be weaponised.

Sell tickets to pointed members of the Celtic travel club only.

J

[wills]

Why not introduce it for a trial season then see if it works

[Antifa Hibs]

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Well there goes any attempt to stop mainly Rangers signing sectarian songs. Absolute nonsense it doesnt work anywhere UEFA fined Rangers for singing songs the club crapped themselves and suddenly they were telling fans not to sing them and it pretty much stopped. Now no responsibility by the authorities, you struggle to get anyone of any importance actually agreeing it takes place at all. The biggest issue in Scottish football isnt a couple of numpties throwing coins or fronting up a player it is thousands of people singing mainly illegal songs in every game without any recourse or responsibility for that club. Shameful IMO especially the other clubs.

Should it not be the police and governments problem to deal with sectarian singing? (Which is pie in the sky as i'll guess a decent amount of government and police officials are in the orange order).

What countries have strict liability and does it work? Germany have and there's pyro all the time.

[660]

I don't want strict liability as I want to go on the pitch again when we complete the treble next may.

[Keith_M]

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Should it not be the police and governments problem to deal with sectarian singing? (Which is pie in the sky as i'll guess a decent amount of government and police officials are in the orange order).

What countries have strict liability and does it work? Germany have and there's pyro all the time.

Dortmund had a section of their ground closed a couple of years back because the Ultras that inhabit part of that section attacked innocent men, women and children before a game against RB Leipzig. The club were also fined 100k Euros

Story Here

It was considered heavy handed by many but sent out a very powerful message that such behaviour won't be tolerated.

I wish our footballing authorities had the balls do do something like that.

[PatHead]

It is up to the police to enforce the law not clubs. Clubs can do their part but it will only help so far.

The police could apply to refuse licences for stands due to the behaviour of supporters. Even just for a game or two. That would put the wind up the support and perhaps begin to change attitudes.

[JimBHibees]

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It is up to the police to enforce the law not clubs. Clubs can do their part but it will only help so far.

The police could apply to refuse licences for stands due to the behaviour of supporters. Even just for a game or two. That would put the wind up the support and perhaps begin to change attitudes.

When have the police ever got involved in this. It is up to football authorities to deal with behaviour in football grounds and clubs to abide with those rules. If football authorities dont put in place a suitable structure then government should force them to do so.

[Antifa Hibs]

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Dortmund had a section of their ground closed a couple of years back because the Ultras that inhabit part of that section attacked innocent men, women and children before a game against RB Leipzig. The club were also fined 100k Euros

Story Here

It was considered heavy handed by many but sent out a very powerful message that such behaviour won't be tolerated.

I wish our footballing authorities had the balls do do something like that.

2 things. When have we seen innocent men, woman and children attacked before or after a game in this country? Also the fact Frankfurt and Hamburg have had stand closures around the same time as this kinda proves its not really a deterrent?

If a group of hardcore ultras/fanatics/hooligans physically attack a group of innocent opposing supporters they should be put through the courts, not closing a wee section of their stand.

Let's be honest the worst thing to happen in Scotland on a weekly basis is a few dodgy chants. If strict liability was brought in there is no chance we're seeing fines and ground closures for singing BJK, up the ra/uda or the billy boys.

[Keith_M]

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2 things. When have we seen innocent men, woman and children attacked before or after a game in this country? Also the fact Frankfurt and Hamburg have had stand closures around the same time as this kinda proves its not really a deterrent?

If a group of hardcore ultras/fanatics/hooligans physically attack a group of innocent opposing supporters they should be put through the courts, not closing a wee section of their stand.

Let's be honest the worst thing to happen in Scotland on a weekly basis is a few dodgy chants. If strict liability was brought in there is no chance we're seeing fines and ground closures for singing BJK, up the ra/uda or the billy boys.

How do you know that it didn't have an effect on the behavour of that segment of their support?

For one thing, they really wern't popular with other Dortmund Fans because of this, and certainly not with the club.

When Rangers were fined by UEFA, they clamped down on sectarian singing, something the current owners show no interest in.

I'm not saying violence is the same as sectarianisn. The people engaging in either need to be dealt with, though, and if their club needs a push to do that, then so be it.