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  1. #31
    Testimonial Due Glory Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Is it worth mentioning the approx 500,000 people each year that migrate to the UK might be putting additional strain onto the NHS?
    It would be a pretty poor conversation if folk werenít allowed to mention stuff .

    I think entitlement is a very important issue. I donít pretend to know what would be a fair period of residency to qualify but I think that should be in the mix. Proof of entitlement then comes in to play. Do we need a national ID scheme to make that work? I canít see an alternative but, again, iím no expert.


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    It's worth remembering that Trump won't be around forever.

    The USA has many flaws but it has many positives as well. It might not seem like it but they need friends around the world, if not now then in the future.

    Would we be so against this type of thing if it was being driven by the man (Obama) who sought to bring in some sort of health provision for the weakest in American society?

    I can't stand Trump.

    I'll wait until I know more about this (ie anything) before deciding how awful it is.
    Well TTIP, the negotiations for a US-EU trade deal started under Obama and people seemed generally against that. So, yes, I think.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    It is worth mentioning, but be prepared to take on board the fact that it has been proven time and time again that this particular cohort of people are known to put more in by way of taxes than they take out by way of healthcare.
    You could well be right but in the short term 500,000 people need health care from the moment they arrive. Surely you must agree that these numbers added every year puts strain on the NHS? How could they not?

    If the current population can't fund the NHS now then how does adding huge amounts to the population every year solve this,especially as many of the 500 000 Are low skilled workers that do not pay high levels of tax but require expensive NHS treatments.

    I'd be interested to see your figures as for me the math doesn't add up.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Is it worth mentioning the approx 500,000 people each year that migrate to the UK might be putting additional strain onto the NHS?
    They might, but they take a lot more strain off the country than they put on the NHS.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £1,789.68!



  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    For those with short memories. When Trump was first elected, he stood up on a platform and told his followers that he will only ever make international trade decisions that benefit the US markets.

    The idea that any sort of trade deal with Trumps US will be in anyway a benefit to the UK is completely delusional. He would crush the UK in an instant if he thought it was for the overall benefit of the US economy.

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Net immigration to the UK is about 270000.

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    You could well be right but in the short term 500,000 people need health care from the moment they arrive. Surely you must agree that these numbers added every year puts strain on the NHS? How could they not?

    If the current population can't fund the NHS now then how does adding huge amounts to the population every year solve this,especially as many of the 500 000 Are low skilled workers that do not pay high levels of tax but require expensive NHS treatments.

    I'd be interested to see your figures as for me the math doesn't add up.
    Where have you heard all this?

    As has been said immigrants are net contributors to the system so are effectively covering their costs to society.

    I'm not sure either of the proportion that are low skilled. As has also already been mentioned there are huge numbers in the NHS from overseas and I'd go as far to suggest most of our surgeons are not UK born.

    Also most immigrants are of working age and working i.e. those least likely to be on benefits of any kind and least likely to need NHS services.
    Last edited by Jack; 04-06-2019 at 08:38 PM.

  9. #38
    Testimonial Due weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Not to mention that they staff the thing!
    That is a key point that is so often overlooked when migration to the UK is mentioned. My daughter has had 29 different operations or procedures, some life saving, and not one of her consultants has been British, loads of nurses, Ward staff, cleaners etc aso well. Also as we are talking about the NHS I would imagine that her medical care has cost in excess of £1m and I dread to think how that would have played out if we lived in the good old US of A. Her condition was completely unexpected and only discovered at birth so we would have been unlikely to have been insured for it. The NHS is the greatest institution and should be protected against folk like Farage, Johnson and Trump. If they need private treatment I'm sure they could all afford it but most of us can't and need the NHS

  10. #39
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    You could well be right but in the short term 500,000 people need health care from the moment they arrive. Surely you must agree that these numbers added every year puts strain on the NHS? How could they not?

    If the current population can't fund the NHS now then how does adding huge amounts to the population every year solve this,especially as many of the 500 000 Are low skilled workers that do not pay high levels of tax but require expensive NHS treatments.

    I'd be interested to see your figures as for me the math doesn't add up.
    I don't have figures, just hearsay......

    Of your 500,000 figure (where did that come from btw?) many WILL be low skilled workers. Whilst they may not pay a lot in income tax, money will still find it's way to the exchequer from them via VAT etc.
    Elsewhere within this figure will be highly paid professionals, many who work within the NHS so they don't just put in money, they put in work as well. The NHS tends to get a pretty good deal from it's staff - the goodwill it enjoys from the people who work within it allows them to go above and beyond and a massive % of the NHS workforce started life outside the UK. The NHS is held in very high regard in some parts of the world (in very low regard in others) and people will come specifically to work within it.

    Where I think we need to consider the effects of immigration on the NHS is where we consider what might happen in future. Whilst these people are putting more in now, in future (as they get old) they will require more care into old age, the same as our indigenous population do. By encouraging the immigration "sticking plaster" for now, are we kicking the can down the road and borrowing more and more off our children and grandchildren to allow us to continue to lifestyle that is well beyond our means?

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Is it worth mentioning the approx 500,000 people each year that migrate to the UK might be putting additional strain onto the NHS?
    Or those who leave the UK to reduce the strain on the NHS.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2019
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    It is worth mentioning, but be prepared to take on board the fact that it has been proven time and time again that this particular cohort of people are known to put more in by way of taxes than they take out by way of healthcare.

    They're subsidising us, and without them the shortfall will need to be made up somewhere.

    What do you fancy? Paying more tax, cutting services or continuing to follow Farage and chums into the sea with this nonsense?
    This 👍
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    You could well be right but in the short term 500,000 people need health care from the moment they arrive. Surely you must agree that these numbers added every year puts strain on the NHS? How could they not?

    If the current population can't fund the NHS now then how does adding huge amounts to the population every year solve this,especially as many of the 500 000 Are low skilled workers that do not pay high levels of tax but require expensive NHS treatments.

    I'd be interested to see your figures as for me the math doesn't add up.
    You mean that they are allowed into the UK with diseases and illness. ****, who knew!!
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    You could well be right but in the short term 500,000 people need health care from the moment they arrive. Surely you must agree that these numbers added every year puts strain on the NHS? How could they not?

    If the current population can't fund the NHS now then how does adding huge amounts to the population every year solve this,especially as many of the 500 000 Are low skilled workers that do not pay high levels of tax but require expensive NHS treatments.

    I'd be interested to see your figures as for me the math doesn't add up.
    Stop slavering.


    https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-immigrants-affect-public-finances/
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  15. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Is it worth mentioning the approx 500,000 people each year that migrate to the UK might be putting additional strain onto the NHS?
    Also quite a lot of those people will be homosexual, which will put an even greater additional strain on the NHS when scientific treatment becomes available for that condition.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Also quite a lot of those people will be homosexual, which will put an even greater additional strain on the NHS when scientific treatment becomes available for that condition.
    I sincerely hope that you are trying to be sarcastic. If not then you should be ashamed of yourself.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Immigration seems to work well for us. Young people come here to work and pay taxes and old people (who get sick more) bugger of to Spain.


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  18. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    I sincerely hope that you are trying to be sarcastic. If not then you should be ashamed of yourself.
    Brexit Party's ahead in the polling for Westminster voting intention.
    Widdicombe will be looking for something to do when her stint as MEP is over (if it even begins).
    A Health Secretary will be required.
    Her view isn't Brexit Party policy, but according to Nige party policy will be driven by the views of party members.
    Strange times these. Can't rule anything out.

  19. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Brexit Party's ahead in the polling for Westminster voting intention.
    Widdicombe will be looking for something to do when her stint as MEP is over (if it even begins).
    A Health Secretary will be required.
    Her view isn't Brexit Party policy, but according to Nige party policy will be driven by the views of party members.
    Strange times these. Can't rule anything out.
    Heís probably right as he is the only member! Everyone else is just a ďregistered supporterĒ. Nige has learned his lesson from UKIP and has total control.

  20. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    I sincerely hope that you are trying to be sarcastic. If not then you should be ashamed of yourself.
    You obviously missed Widdecombes comment about science one day intervening to cure
    homosexuality

  21. #50
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    You could well be right but in the short term 500,000 people need health care from the moment they arrive. Surely you must agree that these numbers added every year puts strain on the NHS? How could they not?

    If the current population can't fund the NHS now then how does adding huge amounts to the population every year solve this,especially as many of the 500 000 Are low skilled workers that do not pay high levels of tax but require expensive NHS treatments.

    I'd be interested to see your figures as for me the math doesn't add up.
    Do the 500K need healthcare on arrival?
    You make it seem like they come off the boat with lots of ailments needing fixed.
    I donít think that is the case with a vast majority.

    We can fund the NHS. If we stop giving tax cuts all over the place.

  22. #51
    @hibs.net private member Jim44's Avatar
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    This issue seems to be academic now as Trump has done a u-turn, saying the NHS would not form part of a trade deal.

  23. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim44 View Post
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    This issue seems to be academic now as Trump has done a u-turn, saying the NHS would not form part of a trade deal.
    Indeed, but let's not let that get in the way of another whinge thread.

    It's funny how many on here claim Trump is a liar and not to be trusted, yet the minute he claims something about the NHS, which he never even knew what it was and had to have it explained to him, he is suddenly the most trusted person and it's definitely going to happen.

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    Indeed, but let's not let that get in the way of another whinge thread.

    It's funny how many on here claim Trump is a liar and not to be trusted, yet the minute he claims something about the NHS, which he never even knew what it was and had to have it explained to him, he is suddenly the most trusted person and it's definitely going to happen.
    Good idea, letís gamble the NHS on the word of Boris, Farage and Trump. Iím sure it will be fine.


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  25. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Good idea, letís gamble the NHS on the word of Boris, Farage and Trump. Iím sure it will be fine.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How you got to that conclusion from my post I have no idea, but it made for a great soundbyte.

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Public procurement is a devolved power to Holyrood, but, to enable Westminster to 'negotiate' with the rest of the world on trade deals (otherwise known as the USA), Public procurment is one of the 24 areas being 'taken back' by Westminster.

    In other words, the NHS in Scotland is just as much at risk from privitisation as any other public body



    http://www.businessforscotland.com/u...roods-control/
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  27. #56
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Check out this Trump supporting idiot
    https://twitter.com/roy1batty/status...383912449?s=21

    United we stand here....

  28. #57
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Public procurement is a devolved power to Holyrood, but, to enable Westminster to 'negotiate' with the rest of the world on trade deals (otherwise known as the USA), Public procurment is one of the 24 areas being 'taken back' by Westminster.

    In other words, the NHS in Scotland is just as much at risk from privitisation as any other public body



    http://www.businessforscotland.com/u...roods-control/
    As per my earlier post, the Scottish Government have already facilitated American procurement of NHS Scotland contracts to the tune of millions (to IHI). This idea that NHS privatisation is the sole bastion of Conservatives is a complete fallacy.

  29. #58
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    As per my earlier post, the Scottish Government have already facilitated American procurement of NHS Scotland contracts to the tune of millions (to IHI). This idea that NHS privatisation is the sole bastion of Conservatives is a complete fallacy.

    The following from an FOI request,

    The Scottish Government does not privatise roles within Scotland's NHS. For
    2013-14, private sector expenditure represented less than 1% of total hospital and
    community health services expenditure. This is generally targeted at specific areas
    and we are working on building capacity within NHSScotland to reduce this. The
    annual accounts of NHSScotland Boards include expenditure on hospital and
    community health services for all other private sector bodies with which the Board is
    in contract for health care services. This covers, for example, expenditure with
    private sector hospitals undertaking specific contracted activities.
    For 2013-14, private sector expenditure represented only 0.8% of total hospital
    and community health services expenditure. Details on private sector expenditure
    are not held centrally by the Scottish Government but are held centrally by
    NHSScotland Boards.

    Meanwhile south of the border

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a8134386.html
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  30. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Check out this Trump supporting idiot
    https://twitter.com/roy1batty/status...383912449?s=21
    https://twitter.com/gavmacn/status/1135960315894599681

    Has the vid

  31. #60
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    clicky time

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...e1j0B5RADcJCd4


    Don't put our NHS up for negotiation

    Please introduce concrete safeguards that will make sure our NHS is kept out of any future trade deals after Brexit.


    list of clicks appear to be going rather fast

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