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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    NHS on the table

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/people...mpression=true

    If this is true then itís another reason to vote yes in indyref2.


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  3. #2
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    https://www.scotsman.com/news/people...mpression=true

    If this is true then itís another reason to vote yes in indyref2.


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    Says a visiting President, who also happened to say he's observed no protests against him, and that the one he did see was very small and politically orchestrated...

    If you listen to ANY of his answers to the questions he was asked during the press conference, he was evasive, vague and non-commital on mostly everything.

    This is not, and should not, be used as any sort of pro-Indy campaign point - particularly when the current health secretary already responded saying it'll never be part of any trade deal.

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    my late father predicted over 30 years ago our health service would go the same way as the yanks, it's maybe taking them a while but they're now getting their grubby mitts on parts of it, shame on you tory ****s

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Says a visiting President, who also happened to say he's observed no protests against him, and that the one he did see was very small and politically orchestrated...

    If you listen to ANY of his answers to the questions he was asked during the press conference, he was evasive, vague and non-commital on mostly everything.

    This is not, and should not, be used as any sort of pro-Indy campaign point - particularly when the current health secretary already responded saying it'll never be part of any trade deal.
    The main contenders for PM are all desperate to sign this trade deal. You really think they wonít sign away the NHS with Farage (who has admitted he wants it privatised) breathing down their necks?


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  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Says a visiting President, who also happened to say he's observed no protests against him, and that the one he did see was very small and politically orchestrated...

    If you listen to ANY of his answers to the questions he was asked during the press conference, he was evasive, vague and non-commital on mostly everything.

    This is not, and should not, be used as any sort of pro-Indy campaign point - particularly when the current health secretary already responded saying it'll never be part of any trade deal.
    The "current" health secretary.

    Well that's a relief. It's not like it will ever be anyone else.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Looks like it is already an issue.


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  8. #7
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    The main contenders for PM are all desperate to sign this trade deal. You really think they wonít sign away the NHS with Farage (who has admitted he wants it privatised) breathing down their necks?


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    Yes, I do, because almost all opposition MPs (and even many Conservative MPs) oppose the very notion of a privatised NHS, and there's not a chance such a move would get through Parliament.

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Yes, I do, because almost all opposition MPs (and even many Conservative MPs) oppose the very notion of a privatised NHS, and there's not a chance such a move would get through Parliament.
    Are you suggesting the NHS hasn't forgone any privatization under the tories?

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Yes, I do, because almost all opposition MPs (and even many Conservative MPs) oppose the very notion of a privatised NHS, and there's not a chance such a move would get through Parliament.
    This Parliament. What about a Tory majority Parliament desperate for a trade deal post brexit to prove it was all a good idea?


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  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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  12. #11
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Are you suggesting the NHS hasn't forgone any privatization under the tories?
    No? But there's a massive difference between some private investment and subcontracting of services, versus complete wholesale to the highest bidder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    This Parliament. What about a Tory majority Parliament desperate for a trade deal post brexit to prove it was all a good idea?
    And what about a Labour Parliament, or a Lib Dem Parliament, or a hung Parliament...? "Ifs and buts" in abundance. Again, even many Conservative MPs wouldn't support a sell-off of the NHS. They're far from a united party right now in pretty much all areas of policy - including the one you refer to that would be necessary to trigger this scenario.

  13. #12
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Are you suggesting the NHS hasn't forgone any privatization under the tories?
    Can we also not pretend that this just a Tory problem? Particularly when the Scottish Government have been instrumental in facilitating part-investment in NHS Scotland from the Institute of Healthcare Improvement several years ago?

  14. #13
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    I'm not saying I'm in favour of this - I'm not.

    But what I am in favour is of a national conversation about what standard of healthcare we expect in this country, and how we go about funding it. The politicians are hopeless as all they promise is loads of free stuff that someone else will pay for in order to get themselves into office.

    Some of the records we have in relation to health in Scotland are shameful and nothing to be proud of, so we should be open to suggestion - whilst feeling free to telling Trump and America to F off if what is proposed is not in our interests.

    I'd rather have a decent debate about the merits of the various ways to fund health services, their pros and cons, and decide which way to go than to stick blinkered with a system that was designed to suit the needs of the nation in 1948. Some aspects of it still work very well indeed, some of it is state of the art and something we should all be proud of. Some of it really isn't.

    And whilst words such as "Trump, threatens, NHS, US investors" all bring out a response in all of us, at least we are being presented with cold hard facts to be revulsed by. The stuff that we should really have been revulsed by all along were the shady backroom deals that were cut for personal gain by some of the most highly respected politicians in the country that were not remotely in the public's best interests, in terms of either health or finance.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...arliament.html

    https://defendournhsyork.wordpress.c...lthcare-firms/

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    The main contenders for PM are all desperate to sign this trade deal. You really think they wonít sign away the NHS with Farage (who has admitted he wants it privatised) breathing down their necks?


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    So has Johnson. From a speech in 2003.

    There is a moral point. If NHS services continue to be free in this way, they will continue to be abused like any free service. If people have to pay for them, they will value them more. Above all, there is an economic point. In a very modest way, this extension of private funds into the NHS would help the Chancellorís straitened circumstances.
    He's constrained only by what he thinks he can get away with.

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Anyone who thinks that the tories wouldnít sacrifice the NHS to facilitate a trade deal with America are being very naive. Post Brexit desperation will kick in and everything will be on the table. They would try and do it through the back door in a stages in order to try and fool the general public.

    United we stand here....

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Yes, I do, because almost all opposition MPs (and even many Conservative MPs) oppose the very notion of a privatised NHS, and there's not a chance such a move would get through Parliament.
    I wish I had your confidence in the UK parliament, in whatever form it takes in the future, standing in the way of the bestest, most phenomenal trade deal between the UK, and the U.S.

    Let's all just forget about it then. 😉


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    There's so many Torys with their nose already in the NHS England trough anyone thinking more privatisation of services isn't on the cards is deluded. Brexit will only hasten the race to the bottom.
    Space to let

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    There's so many Torys with their nose already in the NHS England trough anyone thinking more privatisation of services isn't on the cards is deluded. Brexit will only hasten the race to the bottom.
    Indeed.

    The big fat Orange guy is basically telling the functionaries who currently run the country what his requirements are for the trade deal that each of them will ultimately claim as a success they had to fight for.

    It's all about him forcing our markets, NHS included, to open up to US trade on their terms and that's all about "making America great again" there's got to be a loser in that scenario....

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  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member Jim44's Avatar
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    Could someone explain to this dim onlooker the sort of things Trump might have in mind when he mentions the NHS being a possible part of a Ďphenomenalí trade deal between the UK and USA? Iím horrified at the mere thought of any health service link between them and us.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    Trump has form for all of this...
    From the Huawei thing where no one can use them and be our allies because they can secretly take over systems.. Which then actually becomes, we can work with them if we get a good trade deal...

    To the Iran thing (I mentioned elsewhere)... Only two places on the planet that can supply an ultra light grade lubricant, one iran which trump says if anyone trades with won't be able to trade with the states, (due to the nuclear thing that no one, not even the cia etc believes) and the other is the US...

    It's really clear looking at the bigger picture trump is using every lever he has to 'win his war'



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  22. #21
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I wish I had your confidence in the UK parliament, in whatever form it takes in the future, standing in the way of the bestest, most phenomenal trade deal between the UK, and the U.S.

    Let's all just forget about it then. 😉
    Nothing will be off the table with the next Tory leader, such will be their desperation to get a deal, any deal. *******s.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    And once the NHS is in American hands, the trade deal will be pulled.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £2,389.68!



  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonhibby View Post
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    Indeed.

    The big fat Orange guy is basically telling the functionaries who currently run the country what his requirements are for the trade deal that each of them will ultimately claim as a success they had to fight for.

    It's all about him forcing our markets, NHS included, to open up to US trade on their terms and that's all about "making America great again" there's got to be a loser in that scenario....

    Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
    Correct. Trump is Old School. He believes in a Zero Sum Game.

    A winner naturally has a loser. For him (USA) to win others (the U.K.) must lose.



    Most negotiations, in life and in International Relations are Non Zero Sum games. Mutual interest are met, both sides compromise. Both sides are happy.



    J
    Last edited by Bristolhibby; 04-06-2019 at 06:15 PM.

  25. #24
    Testimonial Due The Harp Awakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    https://www.scotsman.com/news/people...mpression=true

    If this is true then itís another reason to vote yes in indyref2.


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    With a no deal Brexit looking more likely, Boris probably being the next PM, Farage going from strength to strength in England, the Labour Party in self-destruct mode and now Trump's intervention on the NHS, it does seem like the perfect storm for a surge in support for Scottish independence.

    Time will tell.

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    With a no deal Brexit looking more likely, Boris probably being the next PM, Farage going from strength to strength in England, the Labour Party in self-destruct mode and now Trump's intervention on the NHS, it does seem like the perfect storm for a surge in support for Scottish independence.

    Time will tell.
    As (sadly) now an outsider looking in I tend to agree with you, lucky the big fat Orange guy has already declared that Scotland loves him. Maybe there's deals to be done

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    Last edited by Bostonhibby; 04-06-2019 at 06:33 PM.

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  27. #26
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    It's worth remembering that Trump won't be around forever.

    The USA has many flaws but it has many positives as well. It might not seem like it but they need friends around the world, if not now then in the future.

    Would we be so against this type of thing if it was being driven by the man (Obama) who sought to bring in some sort of health provision for the weakest in American society?

    I can't stand Trump.

    I'll wait until I know more about this (ie anything) before deciding how awful it is.

  28. #27
    Testimonial Due Glory Lurker's Avatar
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    Good point by Smartie about having a conversation. Personally, I'd like to see us face up to the fact that our low-tax culture of last 35 years has starved the NHS. Private involvement can't fix it. If there was a frank conversation then hopefully that would become clear and we can then accept that substantially increased state investment is essential if we want to save it.

  29. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Glory Lurker View Post
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    Good point by Smartie about having a conversation. Personally, I'd like to see us face up to the fact that our low-tax culture of last 35 years has starved the NHS. Private involvement can't fix it. If there was a frank conversation then hopefully that would become clear and we can then accept that substantially increased state investment is essential if we want to save it.
    Is it worth mentioning the approx 500,000 people each year that migrate to the UK might be putting additional strain onto the NHS?

  30. #29
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Is it worth mentioning the approx 500,000 people each year that migrate to the UK might be putting additional strain onto the NHS?
    It is worth mentioning, but be prepared to take on board the fact that it has been proven time and time again that this particular cohort of people are known to put more in by way of taxes than they take out by way of healthcare.

    They're subsidising us, and without them the shortfall will need to be made up somewhere.

    What do you fancy? Paying more tax, cutting services or continuing to follow Farage and chums into the sea with this nonsense?

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    It is worth mentioning, but be prepared to take on board the fact that it has been proven time and time again that this particular cohort of people are known to put more in by way of taxes than they take out by way of healthcare.

    They're subsidising us, and without them the shortfall will need to be made up somewhere.

    What do you fancy? Paying more tax, cutting services or continuing to follow Farage and chums into the sea with this nonsense?
    Not to mention that they staff the thing!

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