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[Gerard]

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I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

If the club did not have HSL money they would not have have been able to sign the players we have signed .
It is probable that being the case the club would not have finished 5th this season and would not received the money due to this position from the SPL.
Hearts and Aberdeen will use the funds they receive from fans contributions to attract players that we might have signed.
We agree that the club must not spend money it does not receive as this is the road to bankruptcy

[WhileTheChief..]

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If the club did not have HSL money they would not have have been able to sign the players we have signed .
It is probable that being the case the club would not have finished 5th this season and would not received the money due to this position from the SPL.
Hearts and Aberdeen will use the funds they receive from fans contributions to attract players that we might have signed.
We agree that the club must not spend money it does not receive as this is the road to bankruptcy

Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

[matty_f]

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I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

That's a really good point - and I totally understand the part about a multi-million pound business asking fans for more money.

I think the key difference to Hibs (or most football clubs) doing it is that our multi-million pound business isn't in it to make profit for already wealthy shareholders.

There is also the issue that a club our size has a very limited reach in terms of attracting new investment - there's not much return for businesses advertising with, or sponsoring Hibs. TV revenue is limited in comparison with other countries that compete for players we'd want, and our supporter base has only limited potential for growth.

I think that's a significant difference. If Hibs were super-wealthy and clearly able to compete with similarly sized clubs in Scotland without supporter investment, then I'd probably be inclined to take the same view-point as you.

We're not though, and I view my donation almost as though it's me doing my bit for my club (not saying that those that don't contribute to HSL don't do their bit, btw)

For me, HSL and the share issue is normal business activity for raising capital - if I was running a business and needed investment to expand or compete, I would do a share issue or go to existing shareholders and ask for investment.

This isn't that different but with the benefit of us getting a potentially better team to watch and safeguarding the club for the future.

[Gerard]

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Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

I see your point. There is no guarantee that as you say working smarter will ensure we have quality players as in football there is a risk of signing players and the concept of working smarter as I see it does not guarantee getting the best quality players that the club can afford.
All clubs I am convinced strive to work smarter. The outcome of doing so is not guaranteed.
Before HSL the club had to work within its means. This resulted in the club being at best finishing in the mid range of the spl table and often just below
The consequences of being mediocre is selling less season tickets and walk up tickets, less spl money,less shop sales
And making it difficult to attract players we should be able to attract
I think HSL in the long gives the club the potential to sign better players than the ones we could afford to attract
There is no guarantee that these players will make the club successful
In my opinion a club of our size needs to finish every year in the top six,regularly play European football and occasionally win cups. These are realistic goals

[hibbydad]

While the Chief it is all about injecting working capital into the business. All businesses need working capital. In our caseit is to invest in the playing squad and a better playing squad will lead to larger revenue streams coming into the club. Your comment about accepting where we are if our opponents get ahead of us does not hold water as you must have seen for yourself the way people react when results go against us

[DaveF]

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Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

Honestly, that is just nonsense. You could just as easily say its your ST money wasted. Right there.

We all put our trust in those in position to identify the correct players who will give value for money. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

[WhileTheChief..]

Well of course you could say that, there’s just one pot of money after all. We could equally say that our commercial income has just been wasted.

We’re not discussing ST sales on this thread though.

[spike220]

Here is my suggestion.

Get someone to design an iconic Hibs Polo shirt and or top, that identifies them as a HSL contributor. Make these only available to purchase by people signed up.

When they go to collect their tops they are handed out bt Sir David Grey or other iconic player who shakes thier hand and slaps them on the back.

[DaveF]

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Well of course you could say that, there’s just one pot of money after all. We could equally say that our commercial income has just been wasted.

We’re not discussing ST sales on this thread though.

So why not just say that then?

[WhileTheChief..]

Are you for real? You know the point I’m making.

Stop trying to pick an argument when some of us are happy trying to have a discussion.

[CentreLine]

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Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

But it’s not money waisted. The club required a pool of players. If the position is filled already it needs back up. It’s actually a good thing if the back up has not been used but it has to be there.

[DaveF]

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Are you for real? You know the point I’m making.

Stop trying to pick an argument when some of us are happy trying to have a discussion.

You made a crap point about HSL money being wasted and I questioned you on it. No argument from me, simply a difference of opinion.

I'm out of it now though. You crack on.

[Hibbyradge]

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My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

STF is getting nothing for his shares this way.

I'm certain that there have been offers for the club which he's turned down, opting instead to give it to the fans as long as they're prepared to invest in the team.

[Hibbyradge]

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Well of course you could say that, there’s just one pot of money after all. We could equally say that our commercial income has just been wasted.

We’re not discussing ST sales on this thread though.

Those players were still necessary, whether they got the chance to contribute or not.

Saying that the money spent on them was a waste is a bit like someone who hasn't had a car accident, had his house burnt down or burgled, and didn't take ill on holiday bemoaning the insurance policies they brought.

If you remember some of the team's and substitute benches we've fielded in recent years, you'll realise that we already operate as close to bare minimum as possible.

I seem to remember a certain emergency goalkeeper being recruited a few years ago. And Spector last season.

[WhileTheChief..]

So it looks like I’m in the minority then!

I guess someone else can have a go at trying to explain why we don’t have 13,000 HSL subscribers!

[Blaster]

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So it looks like I’m in the minority then!

I guess someone else can have a go at trying to explain why we don’t have 13,000 HSL subscribers!

Why 13,000? Surely there’s no reason we shouldn’t target 5,000 adult hibs supporters contributing something towards HSL. Is that not realistic from where we are just now

[RIP]

Why don’t we admit that any scheme that was initiated by Rod was always going to lack vision, excitement and a strong connection with the rank and file.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not doubting the sincerity of Rod and the people he worked with back in 2014 to get the wheels in motion. But as with all things Hibs Board, it seems to have lacked real marketing flair or community engagement.

[Gerard]

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So it looks like I’m in the minority then!

I guess someone else can have a go at trying to explain why we don’t have 13,000 HSL subscribers!

There are many reasons why people do not subscribe to HSL ranging from people who can afford to subscribe to people who are not convinced that HSL is making a positive contribution to improving the team.
In time I think HSL will grow the subscriber base and will make the important share holding of 25.1% and grow beyond it
It is possible that HSL will evolve to become similar to the Aberdeen fans scheme that offers incentives for membership
There are hibs fans who can not but season tickets due to the nature of their work or place if residency and they are looking to help Hibs buy better players.

[Leithenhibby]

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Why 13,000? Surely there’s no reason we shouldn’t target 5,000 adult hibs supporters contributing something towards HSL. Is that not realistic from where we are just now

It's an excellent starting point..👏👏

[Tom Hart RIP]

Just got this email. Good idea. It was discussed on Sunday and now implemented 👍

First of all give yourself a pat on the back for helping to make it happen. The memories linger on.

We want more though, so I wonder if you can please help us to achieve more.

We have been asked by some Members to offer a “refer a friend” incentive so we wanted to do this as quickly as possible.

It’s very simple. We are asking every one of our existing Members/contributors to find just one other Hibee to join us in helping to give a little extra support to our Team.

To make that task a little easier here’s what we can do in return.

For the first 32 (get it) brand new supporters joining us we will enter them into a simple draw (first name out of a hat). The prize – a free Season Ticket for next year. If you already have one we can give you a £100 voucher to spend in the Hibs shop or alternatively credit your new Member Account with 1000 Francks.

For the existing Member/Donator who made that referral they too can earn a free Season Ticket or have a £100 voucher or 2000 Francks credited to their Member account if they already have a Season Ticket.

Remember, to join go to www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk.

Good Luck


James Adie
Chairman

[Tom Hart RIP]

Ps it was headed happy Scottish Cup day

[hhibs]

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Why don’t we admit that any scheme that was initiated by Rod was always going to lack vision, excitement and a strong connection with the rank and file.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not doubting the sincerity of Rod and the people he worked with back in 2014 to get the wheels in motion. But as with all things Hibs Board, it seems to have lacked real marketing flair or community engagement.

Agree with you there,though many on this board will not admit it ,too many Hibs fan that have a view,RP is like a dead hand on any initiative IMO

He also is a dead hand on our potential commercial activities,as for the marketing of Hibs where blame can be spread about, that is just downright poor,again IMO

[OfficialHSL]

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I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

While the Chief

Thank you for taking the time to respond, we can see from your comments that your views are honestly held and you mean no harm to Hibernian Supporters.

I have another engagement shortly and cannot respond in full at the moment but I do want to deal with every single point that you raise, as previously stated, not in a contentious way but rather , " have you thought about this" kind of way. I hope you know what I mean.

Can I first of all deal with your first sentence - " The basic ........"
Herein lies a very interesting point. In our view it is true to say that it does have an £8/9m turnover but is it like any other "business". It isn't really. In a traditional business the owner ( or shareholders ) would seek to maximise the profit from that business with a view to optimising dividends for themselves. In this organisation that doesn't apply. One of the key stakeholders doesn't want the business to make any profit as they want every single surplus penny spent on players because we want sporting success, not financial success. The point I'm making is that I would share your view if there was a sense that the owner of this multi million pound business is seeking to make financial gain at the expense of donators. We just can't see any evidence of that. The current owner paid £4.5m to buy shares in the Club four years ago only to immediately agree to dilute their shareholding in half. Hopefully you can see where we are coming from here ?

" It used to be that........" - you are probably right on this one but I think it is fair to say that times and circumstances have changed. Our nearest neighbouring League ( EPL ) has transformed. I remember when we could take on big English Clubs because the financial gap between us and them wasn't quite so big, but now it is. Financially we can hardly compete for Championship players let alone EPL. But here we have a choice, we can do nothing and accept things as they now are or we can voluntarily agree to pay a little more for the prospect of trying to attract a slightly better quality of player than we could otherwise. The key point here is voluntarily. We don't want anyone to donate if they can't even afford to pay their rent or mortgage. But if you can, great.

Give it some thought and I will respond to your other points.


Hibernian Supporters

[Bangkok Hibby]

OK HSL, great idea to get us to enrol other people and the prize draw is pretty attractive. I sent the email to my mate at work, he followed the link, set up the DD and donated £225. The only problem is, at no point was referral mentioned so we don't know how...

1) He is recognised as a referral (maybe too late)?
2) I get the credit and a chance to win (again ,maybe too late)?

[OfficialHSL]

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Why don’t we admit that any scheme that was initiated by Rod was always going to lack vision, excitement and a strong connection with the rank and file.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not doubting the sincerity of Rod and the people he worked with back in 2014 to get the wheels in motion. But as with all things Hibs Board, it seems to have lacked real marketing flair or community engagement.

RIP

This scheme was not "initiated" by RP and I am are aware that you too are familiar with all the circumstances surrounding the development and birth of Hibernian Supporters. If we lack vision, excitement or anything else please direct your ire at me and my fellow Directors and fellow supporters who have worked on this.

Jim Adie

[OfficialHSL]

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OK HSL, great idea to get us to enrol other people and the prize draw is pretty attractive. I sent the email to my mate at work, he followed the link, set up the DD and donated £225. The only problem is, at no point was referral mentioned so we don't know how...

1) He is recognised as a referral (maybe too late)?
2) I get the credit and a chance to win (again ,maybe too late)?

Thank you so much for doing this - we know now.

You make a serious point but we do have a simple answer. Please just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk with both your details.


Hibernian Supporters

[coldingham hibs]

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While the Chief

Thank you for taking the time to respond, we can see from your comments that your views are honestly held and you mean no harm to Hibernian Supporters.

I have another engagement shortly and cannot respond in full at the moment but I do want to deal with every single point that you raise, as previously stated, not in a contentious way but rather , " have you thought about this" kind of way. I hope you know what I mean.

Can I first of all deal with your first sentence - " The basic ........"
Herein lies a very interesting point. In our view it is true to say that it does have an £8/9m turnover but is it like any other "business". It isn't really. In a traditional business the owner ( or shareholders ) would seek to maximise the profit from that business with a view to optimising dividends for themselves. In this organisation that doesn't apply. One of the key stakeholders doesn't want the business to make any profit as they want every single surplus penny spent on players because we want sporting success, not financial success. The point I'm making is that I would share your view if there was a sense that the owner of this multi million pound business is seeking to make financial gain at the expense of donators. We just can't see any evidence of that. The current owner paid £4.5m to buy shares in the Club four years ago only to immediately agree to dilute their shareholding in half. Hopefully you can see where we are coming from here ?

" It used to be that........" - you are probably right on this one but I think it is fair to say that times and circumstances have changed. Our nearest neighbouring League ( EPL ) has transformed. I remember when we could take on big English Clubs because the financial gap between us and them wasn't quite so big, but now it is. Financially we can hardly compete for Championship players let alone EPL. But here we have a choice, we can do nothing and accept things as they now are or we can voluntarily agree to pay a little more for the prospect of trying to attract a slightly better quality of player than we could otherwise. The key point here is voluntarily. We don't want anyone to donate if they can't even afford to pay their rent or mortgage. But if you can, great.

Give it some thought and I will respond to your other points.


Hibernian Supporters

Correct on all counts in my opinion. We donate because we love the club and want success, days out at Hampden like 21st May 2016.

I am happy to donate £120 a year if it means I can have more of these special days & magical memories.

If people cannot afford to pay a bit extra then fine no problem, but I for one am fed up with those criticising the job HSL are doing.

[Bangkok Hibby]

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Thank you so much for doing this - we know now.

You make a serious point but we do have a simple answer. Please just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk with both your details.


Hibernian Supporters

Thanks...email sent

[WhileTheChief..]

Official HSL, thanks for the reply.

Appreciate your thoughts but it’s probably best if I leave it there and wish you well.

[Itsnoteasy]

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I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

2019 post of the year.



You've had a lot to say for yourself on this topic, like me you will be getting classed as an Attention Seeker soon if not so already.