HSL suggestions required

[OfficialHSL]

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I remember looking at the Aberdeen scheme when it was first launched and the fact that it wasn't linked to share issue was a plus for me. I already have a token private shareholding in Hibs (dates back to the Wallace Mercer takeover bid) but my lifelong interest in Hibs is totally football related and i have no interest in promoting the concept of fan ownership but I do appreciate that others are attracted by such a proposition.

It's all about costing I guess, as you rightly point out not 100% of the ABERDNA scheme will go to the Club but from a supporters viewpoint it offers other attractions - eg discounts on season tickets, club merchandise ,prize draws etc. I even found a link:-

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna-homepage/benefits/

Golden Bear

We don't think you are a "stubborn auld git " but do want to engage with you on these points as we feel it may be of help to you and if not certainly to others who may be holding back for similar reasons. We'll see if you are stubborn or perhaps just would welcome more information.

First of all Shares. We see that you have some shares at the moment so we assume that you have some interest in shares, albeit as you say only token. Our Members are the same. Nearly all of them just want to help their Club and so they donate to HSL. Please note that it was not HSL who proposed the issuing of new shares. This was the decision of the Club Board and presumably with the full support of the existing principal shareholder. These shares therefore will be bought and the principal shareholder % will reduce to 49. There is nothing you can do about that now, other than have an influence in where those shares go. You will therefore not be "promoting the concept of fan ownership.

HSL

ps If you really don't have any interest in your shares we would welcome them.

[Power]

Some good suggestions in here. I can pick some up.

[Since452]

I'm similar to a lot of fans that aren't particularly bothered about fan ownership and shares etc. If HSL was purely advertised as a way to increase the player budget i think it would attract a lot more people.

[hibbydad]

Since 452 it has been made very clear the money is going to help improve the playing squad how often does it need to be said for people to understand that

[Monts]

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What makes it appealing bernz?

Not a lot at the moment, I would say.

I think it attracts
- those who want to move to fan ownership,
- those that contribute through a sense of duty
- that's about it

[DaveF]

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Since 452 it has been made very clear the money is going to help improve the playing squad how often does it need to be said for people to understand that

It has but I don't think there is any doubt that the fan ownership thing puts some people off.

I've no idea of its too late to change the mode of operation or even if there are implications in doing so - I suspect the answer to both would be Yes though.

To coin a crap phrase, we are where are. We can back it or continue to find reasons not to.

I've no idea if we will suffer on the field as a result of the yams and dons extra dough. I just want to help my club with that little bit extra.

Hopefully a few thousand others can hop on board too.

[CentreLine]

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Only half of the donation goes the the club I believe. The other half on admin, prizes etc. Not what Im after at all

Good point DaveF bests clarify that this refers to Aberdeen’s version of HSL whereas every penny of HSL money goes to the playing budget at Hibs with the exception of a very few quid for postage etc. All very clear in the accounts published yesterday. If anyone was still in any doubt that is.

[The Baldmans Comb]

To many mixed messages, terrible administration, very poor communication and surprisingly what seems less than enthusiastic support from the club still keeps me from making any sort of commitment.

In the meantime Hibs TV, Sponsorship and hospitality is my chosen non match day way of making excess contributions.

Sources whereby I at least get something in return rather than what seems a confused mess.

At the highest level do a complete relaunch and start again.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Hopefully a few thousand others can hop on board too.

Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

[BSEJVT]

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Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

For the triumph of evil, all its takes is for good men to do nothing!

People can be persuaded or feel differently about things as time passes.

Independence and Brexit prove this as the support / lack of for both has waxed and waned over the years and these are fundamental life choices with deeply entrenched political views that have changed.

If you are of the Homer Simpson mindset that if something is difficult to do then its probably not worth doing then that is your prerogative, but it doesn't have to be that way.

There are plenty of Hibs supporters still around that remember our winning the league regularly in the 50's, its a huge ask but maybe we need to find different ways of funding to enable us to do so again. This could be one.

Scotland cannot remain a sectarian backwater forever, when it isn't we need to be there ready to pick up the baton when Rantic's support disappears, it may not be in my lifetime, but it will happen, its not so long ago that they were playing to crowds smaller than our current crowds

Closer to the current timeline there are many more who lived through Hands off Hibs, should they have just given up as it looked difficult at the outset? It's a bloody good job they didn't.

Every journey starts with a first step, every £ raised improves us, why on earth would folk stop trying to drum up support for HSL?

[Iggy Pope]

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Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

2500 mugs in amongst the other 10,500 disinterested do you think? That would be a shabby state of affairs.

[DaveF]

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Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

There have been numerous obstacles during that time with plenty lies thrown around which helped not one bit. Plus a lack of, for whatever reason, engagement by the club also didn't help.

I wasn't aware you spoke for the majority but while your views are clear, I would hope others were not so closed.

[DaveF]

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To many mixed messages, terrible administration, very poor communication and surprisingly what seems less than enthusiastic support from the club still keeps me from making any sort of commitment.

In the meantime Hibs TV, Sponsorship and hospitality is my chosen non match day way of making excess contributions.

Sources whereby I at least get something in return rather than what seems a confused mess.

At the highest level do a complete relaunch and start again.

Thats fair enough comment I think and I've said as much myself. The message needs to be clear.

Though the small band that run it are doing so voluntarily so I'd cut them some slack. Or volunteer advice and time :-)

[hhibs]

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I don't care if it's 2 separate companies. The only way HSL will increase is by Dempster coming out and endorsing it for Hibs, advertising it on the front page of the website, putting it in the programme, putting billboards up around ER.

HSL themselves can't do this, that much is obvious.

I am now getting a bit pissed off with HSL asking for answers which - as you point out - are very very clear.

Yep !

[Gerard]

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Thats fair enough comment I think and I've said as much myself. The message needs to be clear.

Though the small band that run it are doing so voluntarily so I'd cut them some slack. Or volunteer advice and time :-)

HSL has made and continues to make an important contribution for the head coach to sign good players. HSL will soon own 20 % of the shares in our club and is in my opinion the way forward for Hibs fans to own an important stake in our club.
If people want to change the way HSL is run they can become full members and seek election to the HSL board.

[hhibs]

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Golden Bear

We do intend to contribute to this thread, if it helps, but for now we hope you don't mind us dealing with this particular point first.

Can we first of all point out that we fully respect everyone's right to have their own opinion on things and we will never lose sight of that. With that in mind, and bearing in mind that I am an individual HSL Director and may be biased ( let others decide), can we ask why you think the ABERDNA route is better ? I think our proposition is much better but clearly it helps us understand why our own supporters thinks another scheme is so attractive ?


HSL

It clearly works thats why.

Perhaps we need both,realise you might no,t but for the good of the club we need something disntict from the HSL share initiative.I am pretty sure there is room for both and would attract a different supporter from those on HSL without necessarily *******ising the original HSL pitch

[OfficialHSL]

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Posted this on the AGM thread by mistake instead of here, but these would have been my suggestions.

- Change the Name, Hibernian Supporters Limited sounds corporate, like a holding company as opposed to the grass roots, fan movement image you are trying to project. A Rangers or Hearts fan promoting their scheme can refer to being part of "Club 1872" or "the Foundation", telling someone you are a member of Hibernian Supporters Limited doesn't really have that same feel IMO despite the groups having generally the same purpose.

- In regards to the AGM, again people aren't signing up to attend corporate events and vote to agree on accounts etc. Stuff like this should be coupled with other more interesting events and promoted as member events.

- Something similar to the plot scheme and ceremonies FoH have. Pledgers are awarded something tangible for their donations which doesn't really cost the club anything. I'm afraid a certificate which you are expected to print at home yourself won't really cut it for most people you are looking to donate £225+.

- The twitter and other social media marketing could still be improved. I understand it is done on a voluntary basis but I am sure there people within the fan base who can assist with this to improve content and reach more people.

Thank you for taking an interest in us. Allow us to give feedback on your comments :

- Your point about our name is well made and there isn't anyone here in disagreement. None of the Directors are precious about our existing name. Please note that "Club 1872" are in fact Club 1872 Ltd but they choose not to refer to the Ltd. We have never intended to use the Ltd and we certainly agree that HSL doesn't bring any additional clarity. We are in fact Hibernian 1875 Supporters. The point I am making is that we can easily choose to refer to ourselves as something else without the need to change our corporate structure. If we want to be Forever Green, Evergreen, Club 1875, Hibs 1875 or whatever, we can do it. There will be some costs to do this but none of them prohibitive. It's just a question of priorities.
- We had offered non Members the opportunity to attend an informal event in a nice convenient location with a cup of tea thrown in. If we need to do more social events, we can do.
- Given the level of interest shown in the Founders Board and the Strip it is clear that many supporters are motivated by "goodies". That being the case we are happy to continue down that route.
- Our Social Media activities are something else. We receive many compliments about it and we hear supporters telling us that they like the fact that it is distinctive from the Club. Having said this, if as you say we have real social media experts out there please get in touch at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk.


Hope this helps.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

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I don't recall getting emails from HSL advertising what is happening. The club do so every year with season tickets and other promotions, so is it not possible for HSL to access the database and start contacting people? If you don't already subscribe you could be easily forgiven for not being aware of what they do.

HappyAsHellas

The Club have very kindly twice forwarded emails from us to the Club database and indeed have agreed to do more. We don't know why you may not have received these but we are not in a position to investigate that.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

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FF lower have the old bookies pod sitting empty. I am guessing its the same in other stands.

If HSL have some form of branding / banners etc they could be placed around / in the unused pods and all adults are handed a simple leaflet as they enter the turnstile outlining the benefits with a straight comparison of what current members contribute compared to the Hearts and Dons donations to their club hopefully hundreds more would sign up.

I appreciate there are not that many people involved in this logistically at the moment so possibly tackle an area at a time with leaflets and a visible presence at the turnstiles guiding people to the pods if they have any questions. East for the first 4 games of the season, then FF Upper etc etc

If they dont already could all Hospitality guests in the West stand be given a leaflet on their table and an application form so it could be monitored how effective that was ?

kennyh

We have already approached the Club to do all of this and are hoping for a positive response.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

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I'm similar to a lot of fans that aren't particularly bothered about fan ownership and shares etc. If HSL was purely advertised as a way to increase the player budget i think it would attract a lot more people.

Since452

We can assure you that if you want to donate to us all of your money will go to increase the Player Budget. Jump aboard ?

https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/



HSL

[matty_f]

I'm interested to know what people don't like about the idea of fan ownership?

[WhileTheChief..]

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There have been numerous obstacles during that time with plenty lies thrown around which helped not one bit. Plus a lack of, for whatever reason, engagement by the club also didn't help.

I wasn't aware you spoke for the majority but while your views are clear, I would hope others were not so closed.

I don’t speak for anyone but myself.

The facts are staring you in the face though.

I’m simply one of the 10,000 who haven’t signed up, I’m just not afraid to admit it on here!

[OfficialHSL]

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Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

Thank you for your comments and we do of course respect your right of opinion. We do hope that in turn that you will respect our right to take a more positive view on things and in particular commend your fellow supporters for their generous efforts in helping our Team. When we first started against very difficult circumstances and we only attracted 100 Members we could not imagine getting to 200. Same when we reached 400 and thought 800 was just wishful thinking. We didn't give up then and indeed we can't imagine that our Members would want to give up now.

We don't know if you were at our AGM yesterday but the news was fantastic.

- HSL now own almost 19% of the Club
- We are now only 6.1% away from our principal target of 25.1%
- We have donated almost £800,000 to the playing budget
- Leeann confirmed once again the very real difference that this money has made and the players that she was able to bring in that she would not have been able to do otherwise
- We are on an upward trajectory , with increased Membership and more and more money going to our Manager
- A very clear message about our "Founding Members" initiative. Many, many more supporters want to be part of this.

Join now if you want to be part of history .

https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate


HSL

[WhileTheChief..]

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I'm interested to know what people don't like about the idea of fan ownership?

I’ve mentioned previously why I’m against it but won’t repeat why on here as some folk seem to think it’s an attempt by me to hinder HSL.

These threads are like an echo chamber.

Unless you’re 100% behind the idea folk jump on you as if you’re not a fan at all.

If those of you who do subscribe can’t convince a friend or family member to join how do you expect to convince a stranger on the internet?!!

That’s not having a dig by the way, Whatever reason your mates give you is the answer you’re looking for.

[OfficialHSL]

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To many mixed messages, terrible administration, very poor communication and surprisingly what seems less than enthusiastic support from the club still keeps me from making any sort of commitment.

In the meantime Hibs TV, Sponsorship and hospitality is my chosen non match day way of making excess contributions.

Sources whereby I at least get something in return rather than what seems a confused mess.

At the highest level do a complete relaunch and start again.

The Baldmans Comb

Thank you for your observations and of course we have full respect for your position. We do however have a duty to our Members and others thinking about taking Membership to clarify a couple of points

We don't have any administrative backlogs or indeed communication issues at present. We have in the past 4 years had two minor issues with emails but these have been dealt with. We are not the only Organisation to have some kind of minor IT issues so if you are out there thinking about joining please do not be put off by these comments. It's very easy to log on to our web site and the sign up process is easy and will take less than two minutes.

You are right in as much as you are not our target audience. Our current Members are looking to donate and are not looking for something in return other than just helping to put better Players on the park.

Having said that we are looking to offer more and more simple "thank you gestures" which don't cost the Club money.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

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I’ve mentioned previously why I’m against it but won’t repeat why on here as some folk seem to think it’s an attempt by me to hinder HSL.

These threads are like an echo chamber.

Unless you’re 100% behind the idea folk jump on you as if you’re not a fan at all.

If those of you who do subscribe can’t convince a friend or family member to join how do you expect to convince a stranger on the internet?!!

That’s not having a dig by the way, Whatever reason your mates give you is the answer you’re looking for.

While The Chief

Rest assured whether you choose to join or not we will never consider you less of a fan should you choose a different path or indeed simply can't manage to join. We are interested in your views and don't for one minute think you are anti HSL. What we have found is that the very task of teasing out objections on threads like this can highlight misunderstandings and misconceptions. On most such threads, as things are clarified, we end up with more Members, not less. So please do let us know why you have not joined, your feedback will help us and therefore help your Team ?


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

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It clearly works thats why.

Perhaps we need both,realise you might no,t but for the good of the club we need something disntict from the HSL share initiative.I am pretty sure there is room for both and would attract a different supporter from those on HSL without necessarily *******ising the original HSL pitch

hhibs

With all due respect we still don't have an answer to the question. We are not saying we disagree with you or your colleague, we are simply trying to get feedback and find out what is attractive about other schemes. If we offer a free Season Ticket to everyone who joins within the next week we will no doubt double our Membership. Will that have worked ? What do we mean by worked ?

We are pretty much in a position where we can do whatever we like but surely we want to make sure that it makes sense and achieves our objectives. A Membership of 6000 which gives away half it's income is less productive than a Membership of 3000 keeping all of it's income. One also wants to make sure that you are not having a value destroying impact on your underlying cause.


HSL

[Hibbyradge]

I've not thought this through properly yet, so my thoughts won't be worded well, but I think there needs to be a better sense of identity and of belonging to something important and desirable.

Being a member of the Hibernian Society or whatever it's eventually called, needs to be something people can be openly proud of and something that people aspire to.

Initiatives as simple as a lapel badge for all members would become a badge of honour and increase take up.

High profile HSL only events like POYT evenings or similar would create interest.

I remember I always wanted to be a member of the Fifty Club and I never even knew what it was. I still don't!

Make HSL membership fashionable. Telling folk they have a duty to support it is nowhere near enough.

[OfficialHSL]

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I've not thought this through properly yet, so my thoughts won't be worded well, but I think there needs to be a better sense of identity and of belonging to something important and desirable.

Being a member of the Hibernian Society or whatever it's eventually called, needs to be something people can be openly proud of and something that people aspire to.

Initiatives as simple as a lapel badge for all members would become a badge of honour and increase take up.

High profile HSL only events like POYT evenings or similar would create interest.

I remember I always wanted to be a member of the Fifty Club and I never even knew what it was. I still don't!

Make HSL membership fashionable. Telling folk they have a duty to support it is nowhere near enough.

Hibbyradge

Don't worry at all about thinking out loud, we are simply grateful to you for taking an interest.

We agree with your sentiment that simply relying on a sense of duty is not enough. We have never knowingly attempted to take that position but if that is how you have perceived it please accept our apology. We too want to make it fashionable and desirable and this thread will help us to do that.

We don't have have a lapel badge but we do have a 'Hibernian 1875 Supporters" scarf. Any Member who would like one simply donate £10 and drop us an email to info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk

How about that for a quick response ?


HSL

[Itsnoteasy]

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Is it really about getting their message out there?

I’d be surprised if there are any Hibs fans alive that aren’t aware of HSL by now!

I’d suggest it’s much more likely that people just don’t want to subscribe to it rather than not knowing about it.

Your on the money.
People keep banging on about the money FOH pump into the club, it's no helping them.

Third best team in Scotland with an average home attendance of about 7 - 8K haven't spent a penny on transfers fees & they wont pay the highest wages.

It's up to Hibs to attract better financial sponsorships instead of asking the working man to dig deeper into his pocket.