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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Edinburgh ambition

    Ok, I'm not a resident so there will be little effect on me but this looks ambitious for the future.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-48227077
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.


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  3. #2
    Has the Leith/Newhaven tram extension been approved yet?

    Edit - yes it has, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-47555231
    Last edited by JeMeSouviens; 10-05-2019 at 01:37 PM.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Ok, I'm not a resident so there will be little effect on me but this looks ambitious for the future.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-48227077
    Hopefully it would include priority access for disabled folk who desperately need to use their cars to get around in due to their lack of mobility. We certainly don't want to exclude disabled folk from any parts of the city unnecessarily.

  5. #4
    It looks a fairly promising start albeit there isn't a huge amount of detail.

    Edinburgh needs an improved and extensive mass transport system and it needs it now.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tornadoes70 View Post
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    Hopefully it would include priority access for disabled folk who desperately need to use their cars to get around in due to their lack of mobility. We certainly don't want to exclude disabled folk from any parts of the city unnecessarily.
    Write to your councillors. As you can see from the article the public will be consulted.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  7. #6
    Getting rid of the parking in George St is a great idea, cars trundling round in circles trying to find the elusive space.

    Taking your car into the city centre is madness.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Write to your councillors. As you can see from the article the public will be consulted.
    Absolutely. A large number of disabled folk rely on their cars due to lack of mobility or other debilitating conditions. It would be unfair for this group to be excluded from the described areas through no fault of their own.

    Otherwise I'm all in favor of large parts of the city center being a traffic free zone save for public transport, emergency services and those with disabilities.

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Closing Victoria Street and Cockburn Street to traffic is a good idea IMO, they are both vibrant streets that would flourish at being able to use the road space.

    Not sure what knock on effect there would be for traffic and I imagine that the businesses on the streets would still need vehicular access to deliver stock and supplies.
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  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Closing Victoria Street and Cockburn Street to traffic is a good idea IMO, they are both vibrant streets that would flourish at being able to use the road space.

    Not sure what knock on effect there would be for traffic and I imagine that the businesses on the streets would still need vehicular access to deliver stock and supplies.
    Remember Rose Street when first pedestrianised was supposed to be delivery vehicles between set times which was soon ignored. I would hope this could be better policed.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Remember Rose Street when first pedestrianised was supposed to be delivery vehicles between set times which was soon ignored. I would hope this could be better policed.
    I had to stay in a hotel on Princes Street with work and the room was at the back. The lorries to empty the glass bottle recycling were there around five in the morning. All the reversing beeps, the hydraulics and the sound of tons of glass shoving about. It was great.....
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  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Closing Victoria Street and Cockburn Street to traffic is a good idea IMO, they are both vibrant streets that would flourish at being able to use the road space.

    Not sure what knock on effect there would be for traffic and I imagine that the businesses on the streets would still need vehicular access to deliver stock and supplies.
    One of the problems with closing Victoria Street is that the Cowgate closes every night at 10pm. That leaves traffic nowhere to go as you canít currently drive up Candlemaker Row. Reopening Candlemaker Row would obviously solve this problem as would ending the nightly closure of the Cowgate. Both would have objections as they were closed for a reason.

    United we stand here....

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    One of the problems with closing Victoria Street is that the Cowgate closes every night at 10pm. That leaves traffic nowhere to go as you canít currently drive up Candlemaker Row. Reopening Candlemaker Row would obviously solve this problem as would ending the nightly closure of the Cowgate. Both would have objections as they were closed for a reason.
    Good point. I also figured that closing Cockburn Street would jam up pressure on the route up from Market Street to George IV Bridge.

    I have no idea about this and havenít lived in Edinburgh for near on ten years but what would happen if you kept the closures and went ahead with shutting off Victoria Street?

    Would you have to change the traffic flow on neighbouring streets? Is that a bad thing? Does the Council need to think even bigger in terms of its strategy?

    I think this is an issue that isnít unusual or unique to Edinburgh. There are plenty of cities with Ďold townsí that werenít built on the basis that they would be full of tourists with suitcases trying to get to hotels or apartments, often on steep inclines from the train or bus station.
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  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Good point. I also figured that closing Cockburn Street would jam up pressure on the route up from Market Street to George IV Bridge.

    I have no idea about this and havenít lived in Edinburgh for near on ten years but what would happen if you kept the closures and went ahead with shutting off Victoria Street?

    Would you have to change the traffic flow on neighbouring streets? Is that a bad thing? Does the Council need to think even bigger in terms of its strategy?

    I think this is an issue that isnít unusual or unique to Edinburgh. There are plenty of cities with Ďold townsí that werenít built on the basis that they would be full of tourists with suitcases trying to get to hotels or apartments, often on steep inclines from the train or bus station.
    The Cockburn Street closure would have little effect as itís currently one way from the High Street. The Victoria Street closure would have much more effect as itís basically a through road after 10pm as traffic canít continue through the Grassmarket. It would effectively create a dead end which Iím sure the council would be keen to avoid. Iím a taxi driver in Edinburgh and everyone always assumes that weíre against all these plans, but thatís not always the case. If things are planned properly and the correct measures are put in place in order for people to get where they want to go then itís absolutely fine by me. The problem usually arises with genuinely helpful proposals being watered down by the council and for the main part making things worse than they already were.
    The simple fact is that the centre off Edinburgh has outgrown its capacity to accommodate the number of people visiting. Iíve noticed for this years festival that theyíre trying to spread things a bit further out around town, but the main focus will always be around the old town. I really donít know what the answer to the problem is, but I do know that closing roads wonít solve the problem as there needs to be a balance between tourism and residents.

    United we stand here....

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    The Cockburn Street closure would have little effect as itís currently one way from the High Street. The Victoria Street closure would have much more effect as itís basically a through road after 10pm as traffic canít continue through the Grassmarket. It would effectively create a dead end which Iím sure the council would be keen to avoid. Iím a taxi driver in Edinburgh and everyone always assumes that weíre against all these plans, but thatís not always the case. If things are planned properly and the correct measures are put in place in order for people to get where they want to go then itís absolutely fine by me. The problem usually arises with genuinely helpful proposals being watered down by the council and for the main part making things worse than they already were.
    The simple fact is that the centre off Edinburgh has outgrown its capacity to accommodate the number of people visiting. Iíve noticed for this years festival that theyíre trying to spread things a bit further out around town, but the main focus will always be around the old town. I really donít know what the answer to the problem is, but I do know that closing roads wonít solve the problem as there needs to be a balance between tourism and residents.
    Nice to see you posting again LB.

    Imo Edinburgh council have been far too focused on tourism for a very long time. Consideration for the local infrastructure and residents has been lost.

    I can see this clear as day visiting my home town going to ER every other week.

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Nice to see you posting again LB.

    Imo Edinburgh council have been far too focused on tourism for a very long time. Consideration for the local infrastructure and residents has been lost.

    I can see this clear as day visiting my home town going to ER every other week.
    Itís good to be back mate. I agree about the council being too focused on tourism, but I do understand that it brings a lot of money into the city, but there has to be a balance. If Iím being honest Iíd love to move out of Edinburgh as I donít feel that Edinburgh council really cares about the residents of our city. Itís all about look at us vanity projects.

    United we stand here....

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    The Cockburn Street closure would have little effect as itís currently one way from the High Street. The Victoria Street closure would have much more effect as itís basically a through road after 10pm as traffic canít continue through the Grassmarket. It would effectively create a dead end which Iím sure the council would be keen to avoid. Iím a taxi driver in Edinburgh and everyone always assumes that weíre against all these plans, but thatís not always the case. If things are planned properly and the correct measures are put in place in order for people to get where they want to go then itís absolutely fine by me. The problem usually arises with genuinely helpful proposals being watered down by the council and for the main part making things worse than they already were.
    The simple fact is that the centre off Edinburgh has outgrown its capacity to accommodate the number of people visiting. Iíve noticed for this years festival that theyíre trying to spread things a bit further out around town, but the main focus will always be around the old town. I really donít know what the answer to the problem is, but I do know that closing roads wonít solve the problem as there needs to be a balance between tourism and residents.
    Appreciate your post

    Lots of food for thought.
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  18. #17
    First Team Regular Cataplana's Avatar
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    Can't help thinking of Le Corbusier the way those drawings are presented. Presented by the numpties that can't even get our bins emptied, and expect us to pay £25 at Hogmanay for the privilidge of standing in a street that we own.

    The people who allow student accommodation to be erected where ordinary people need houses, and then don't collect a penny in council tax from the residents or users.

    Why have a tram loop in the city centre, when the majority of residents don't live there? Surely peripheral housing schemes and hospitals would be the priority for any rapid transit system?

    This Utopian vision is for the benefit of the few, at the expense of the many. I could go on and on but this BS should be resisted.

  19. #18
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48070593

    At least they want the whole city to benefit.

    I've always thought Edinburgh should re-open the suburban loop to ease congestion, which is only going to get worse with the expected population growth. We need people to be able to get to and from work, not locked out of some big theme park.

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killiehibbie View Post
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48070593

    At least they want the whole city to benefit.

    I've always thought Edinburgh should re-open the suburban loop to ease congestion, which is only going to get worse with the expected population growth. We need people to be able to get to and from work, not locked out of some big theme park.
    https://www.citymetric.com/transport...rcle-line-4377

    Seems a no brainer.


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  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Killiehibbie View Post
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48070593

    At least they want the whole city to benefit.

    I've always thought Edinburgh should re-open the suburban loop to ease congestion, which is only going to get worse with the expected population growth. We need people to be able to get to and from work, not locked out of some big theme park.
    The argument against reopening the suburban loop has always been that Waverley is running at full capacity and simply can't handle any more traffic. The solution would appear to lie with the trams, there must be a way to merge heavy rail with light rail and have a suburban line pass through the tramline at the east end of Princes Street and bypass Waverley altogether.

    Because of where I live I'd like to see attention given to the traffic situation around Fort Kinnaird. We have the 2nd largest retail park in the UK on our doorstep with minimal transport links and a completely unfit for purpose road infrastructure around it. A suburban loop incorporating Craigmillar, Brunstane and Newcraighall, a tramline passing nearby to link the RIE to the city centre and the propose alterations at Sherrifhall would all help massively.

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    https://www.citymetric.com/transport...rcle-line-4377

    Seems a no brainer.


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    Great idea, I have vague recollection of it being mentioned in the past and have always thought it would make sense, same with the routes in the North of the city that are now paths and cycle routes, could they be reopened or even shared with pedestrians.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Edinburgh ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    The argument against reopening the suburban loop has always been that Waverley is running at full capacity and simply can't handle any more traffic. The solution would appear to lie with the trams, there must be a way to merge heavy rail with light rail and have a suburban line pass through the tramline at the east end of Princes Street and bypass Waverley altogether.

    Because of where I live I'd like to see attention given to the traffic situation around Fort Kinnaird. We have the 2nd largest retail park in the UK on our doorstep with minimal transport links and a completely unfit for purpose road infrastructure around it. A suburban loop incorporating Craigmillar, Brunstane and Newcraighall, a tramline passing nearby to link the RIE to the city centre and the propose alterations at Sherrifhall would all help massively.
    They could just make the suburban loop a full tram service joining the existing line at Haymarket and Abbeyhill so that Waverley and Haymarket are not affected.
    And for a paltry £30m itís amazing itís not happening.
    The current trams will only really be a success when it forms a proper network.


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  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    While I like the idea of regenerating rail line, either as original or reinvented as trams, I am struggling to see the business case here.

    I donít think there are swathes of people in Craigmillar or Craiglockhart who desperately need to get to Haymarket to then go on to somewhere else. The last couple of stops are walking distance to Haymarket and the tram line anyway.

    I used to live just across from Morningside Station and I know the train would have been nice, but thatís the thing, it would have been nice, not essential, a bit like some of the Glasgow suburbs. And that is notwithstanding the massive congestion you got on Morningside Road, Comiston Road and Balcarres Street at peak times.

    As I say, nice idea but I would rather see improvement work at Haymarket and Waverley, or as was posted earlier, something practical done about traffic nightmares like Fort Kinnaird.
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  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    While I like the idea of regenerating rail line, either as original or reinvented as trams, I am struggling to see the business case here.

    I donít think there are swathes of people in Craigmillar or Craiglockhart who desperately need to get to Haymarket to then go on to somewhere else. The last couple of stops are walking distance to Haymarket and the tram line anyway.

    I used to live just across from Morningside Station and I know the train would have been nice, but thatís the thing, it would have been nice, not essential, a bit like some of the Glasgow suburbs. And that is notwithstanding the massive congestion you got on Morningside Road, Comiston Road and Balcarres Street at peak times.

    As I say, nice idea but I would rather see improvement work at Haymarket and Waverley, or as was posted earlier, something practical done about traffic nightmares like Fort Kinnaird.
    You have to factor in the extra development that would come alongside the opening of these lines. There is a lot of space out Craigmillar way that can be used for new housing developments, offices or hotels etc. Knowing you can be in Princess Street in 15 mins would be a big driver in redeveloping these areas.
    When I lived in Sydney, whenever a new station was added to the suburban rail network, millions of dollars of private investment followed.
    As the city centre moves towards banning private cars we need to offer zero emission alternatives.


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  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    You have to factor in the extra development that would come alongside the opening of these lines. There is a lot of space out Craigmillar way that can be used for new housing developments, offices or hotels etc. Knowing you can be in Princess Street in 15 mins would be a big driver in redeveloping these areas.
    When I lived in Sydney, whenever a new station was added to the suburban rail network, millions of dollars of private investment followed.
    As the city centre moves towards banning private cars we need to offer zero emission alternatives.


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    Don't disagree to an extent, I think rail does bring added benefits. Having said that, the Borders Railway, whilst a boon, hasnít generated growth in Gala or Tweedbank, let alone Stow, in the way that one would have hoped, although these things can take many, many years.

    I still donít see the business case for the South Suburban (even though instinctively I welcome the idea). The trams were flawed in their delivery but the principle was sound - business growth around Edinburgh Park, residential growth around Granton/Newhaven, make a link between the two.

    Is there really going to be huge development by Craigmillar? Shawfair has been sitting for a while, earmarked for 10k houses or thereabouts, with its own train station and a park and ride.
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  27. #26
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Itís good to be back mate. I agree about the council being too focused on tourism, but I do understand that it brings a lot of money into the city, but there has to be a balance. If Iím being honest Iíd love to move out of Edinburgh as I donít feel that Edinburgh council really cares about the residents of our city. Itís all about look at us vanity projects.
    Yup. We're going to move out. I'm sick of living in a building site.

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