Leeann: Scottish Football ready for an "openly gay player"

[Sylar]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48123027

I like Leeann, I really do.

But she's living in cloud cuckoo land if she thinks some of the backward mentalities in Scottish football would "tolerate" an openly gay player right now.

In the whole, I'd like to believe she's 100% spot on. But this idea that Scotland is somehow this beacon of progressive ideologies is so flawed, ESPECIALLY our footballing culture.

Are we likely to see mass homophobic chants from the terraces if someone comes out as gay? In non-volatile fixtures, I'd seriously doubt it - you'd probably get the odd idiot shouting something, perhaps even some of the moronic groups of fans trying to start chants - that already happens with regards to race, religion etc (even in non-OF games).

But imagine for a second that one of the Rangers/Celtc players were to "come out"?

I think we're a LONG way off from Scottish Football being "safe" for non-heteronormative players.

[JeMeSouviens]

Was Justin Fashanu not openly gay when he played here?

[Hibernia&Alba]

The vast majority wouldn't care if it was one of their own players, in my opinion. However, some within the opposition support would show themselves up with juvenile chanting. It's naïve to think otherwise. The macho world of professional sport remains behind wider society on such issues.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Was Justin Fashanu not openly gay when he played here?

No, I don't think so.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Was Justin Fashanu not openly gay when he played here?

Yes. He came out in an interview in the Sun 2-3 years before he signed for Hearts.

[Since452]

Really sad that this is even a topic in this day and age. Sadly i think they would get abuse from the stands. Must be horrible being in that situation. Rangers fans sing about a gay king from 300 odd years ago so there's hope! In all seriousness it matters not a jot what sexuality players are It just shows how backwards we are that Leeann even feels the need to mention it. I'd like to think that if any Hibs player felt they had to make it public they'd get a tremendous reception from the fans, i'm sure they would.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes. He came out in an interview in the Sun 2-3 years before he signed for Hearts.

Did he? I thought he denied it during his career.

[MWHIBBIES]

Scotland's problem isn't with homophobia. Definitely think 99% of fans would have no problem and would behave. Certainly not any worse than racism and that's a very small minority and the league has many black players. The problem here is sectarianism.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No, I don't think so.

According to his wiki page he was - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin...t_in_the_press

Came out 1990, signed for Airdrie 1993. The reason I asked was I'm sure Airdrie fans had a chant during his brief spell there: "He's black, he's gay, he plays for Aird-er-ay, Fashanu, Fashanu"

Fwiw, I think it would be fine. Yes, there are some idiots but I think widespread homophobia would be seen as being as unacceptable as widespread racism.

If only we could do something about widespread anti-Catholic bigotry.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

According to his wiki page he was - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin...t_in_the_press

Came out 1990, signed for Airdrie 1993. The reason I asked was I'm sure Airdrie fans had a chant during his brief spell there: "He's black, he's gay, he plays for Aird-er-ay, Fashanu, Fashanu"

Fwiw, I think it would be fine. Yes, there are some idiots but I think widespread homophobia would be seen as being as unacceptable as widespread racism.

If only we could do something about widespread anti-Catholic bigotry.

I didn't know that. Did he receive much abuse at the time from opposition fans?

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I didn't know that. Did he receive much abuse at the time from opposition fans?

Plenty from what I remember.

[WeeRussell]

We really should be in this day and age. But then there's a lot of things that we SHOULD be capable of and struggle with in Scottish football... and the wider world.

Ultimately it's up to said players whether they think it's time or not.

[Bostonhibby]

No problem with it all. More concerned about the behaviours of openly obnoxious players, Morelos for example.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

It shouldn't be a problem but it could well be.

Graeme Le Saux suffered horrendous homophobic abuse throughout his career despite not actually being gay. The world has moved on even in the decade or so since Le Saux retired but there is still an ugly mentality among some fans of football that 'anything goes'. Casual homophobia is pretty rampant in football as it stands with the 'hibees are gay' patter or players being called 'poofs' for shirking out of a tackle. Closer to home look at some of the vitriol aimed at Leeann Dempster herself on twitter on occasion.

The 'it doesn't bother me' or 'if he plays in a Hibs shirt he gets my support' mentality is laudable but ultimately flawed. The 1st player to come out would be thrust straight into the spotlight and they would be 'different'. Whilst that may not be an issue for many, a minority can still be loud and make themselves heard. Football can also also descend to the lowest common denominator even when touching on serious subjects and mob mnetality sometimes kicks in. As an example child abuse has been seen as fair game by Rangers, Hearts and Hibs fans over the years. In my experience it's certainly more than a small minority who join in with those songs when they rear their head.

Society is evolving all the time and we probably aren't all that far away from a high profile openly gay footballer in the UK. I think that whoever the person is who takes the step will require a lot of public and private support and I hope the game is ready to provide them with it.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I didn't know that. Did he receive much abuse at the time from opposition fans?

I don't remember actually being at a game he played in. Which is strange, he was at Airdrie for half a season and Hearts for about half the following season which would have been towards the end of the 22 in a row run and God knows I suffered through most of that.

[calumhibee1]

Hopefully someone with thick skin comes out soon. They’ll no doubt get abuse imo but once the novelty wears off for the idiots I think it would become a fairly safe place to do so.

[AltheHibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hopefully someone with thick skin comes out soon. They’ll no doubt get abuse imo but once the novelty wears off for the idiots I think it would become a fairly safe place to do so.

On first read I agree with you totally.

But, having Catholic players hasn't stopped the neanderthals at Sevco, so I still think it will be a while.

[BILLYHIBS]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It shouldn't be a problem but it could well be.

Graeme Le Saux suffered horrendous homophobic abuse throughout his career despite not actually being gay. The world has moved on even in the decade or so since Le Saux retired but there is still an ugly mentality among some fans of football that 'anything goes'. Casual homophobia is pretty rampant in football as it stands with the 'hibees are gay' patter or players being called 'poofs' for shirking out of a tackle. Closer to home look at some of the vitriol aimed at Leeann Dempster herself on twitter on occasion.

The 'it doesn't bother me' or 'if he plays in a Hibs shirt he gets my support' mentality is laudable but ultimately flawed. The 1st player to come out would be thrust straight into the spotlight and they would be 'different'. Whilst that may not be an issue for many, a minority can still be loud and make themselves heard. Football can also also descend to the lowest common denominator even when touching on serious subjects and mob mnetality sometimes kicks in. As an example child abuse has been seen as fair game by Rangers, Hearts and Hibs fans over the years. In my experience it's certainly more than a small minority who join in with those songs when they rear their head.

Society is evolving all the time and we probably aren't all that far away from a high profile openly gay footballer in the UK. I think that whoever the person is who takes the step will require a lot of public and private support and I hope the game is ready to provide them with it.

Sorry PB must have missed something

What songs about child abuse do HIBS fans sing?

[Eyrie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry PB must have missed something

What songs about child abuse do HIBS fans sing?

There have been many references to Savilles on here over the years.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry PB must have missed something

What songs about child abuse do HIBS fans sing?

Have sung the likes of “Richard Gough- child molester” or

“His name is Craig Thomson , he comes from Gorgie Way, etc, etc” .

[Aim Here]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It shouldn't be a problem but it could well be.

Graeme Le Saux suffered horrendous homophobic abuse throughout his career despite not actually being gay. The world has moved on even in the decade or so since Le Saux retired but there is still an ugly mentality among some fans of football that 'anything goes'. Casual homophobia is pretty rampant in football as it stands with the 'hibees are gay' patter or players being called 'poofs' for shirking out of a tackle. Closer to home look at some of the vitriol aimed at Leeann Dempster herself on twitter on occasion.

The 'it doesn't bother me' or 'if he plays in a Hibs shirt he gets my support' mentality is laudable but ultimately flawed. The 1st player to come out would be thrust straight into the spotlight and they would be 'different'. Whilst that may not be an issue for many, a minority can still be loud and make themselves heard. Football can also also descend to the lowest common denominator even when touching on serious subjects and mob mnetality sometimes kicks in. As an example child abuse has been seen as fair game by Rangers, Hearts and Hibs fans over the years. In my experience it's certainly more than a small minority who join in with those songs when they rear their head.

Society is evolving all the time and we probably aren't all that far away from a high profile openly gay footballer in the UK. I think that whoever the person is who takes the step will require a lot of public and private support and I hope the game is ready to provide them with it.

There is another route - instead of having one openly gay player taking all the initial homophobic flak, it might be a plan to have a whole lot of them come out publicly at once. People just wake up one morning and find out that there's 12 or 20 or 40 gay players scattered throughout the league. That would make it easier on them since nobody will be the focus of what abuse there is, and a lot of bigots (though maybe not all) will have to re-evaluate their thinking once they find out that someone on the team they support is gay.

I don't think it'd be that big a deal right now these days anyways. There'll be the usual twitter knuckledraggers and you might end up with a few folk getting hoofed out of a stadium for bigotry, but Scotland is reasonably progressive on sexual orientation these days and I don't envisage anything like a version of the hazing that Mark Walters got in the 1980s, for instance. The fact that most of our political leaders, until recently, were gay was notable for how easily it was accepted by the Scottish mainstream.

[WeeRussell]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry PB must have missed something

What songs about child abuse do HIBS fans sing?

I guess much depends on whether you class the numerous songs about Graham Rix and Craig Thomson as songs about child abuse?

[Green Man]

And the Craig Thomson song.

[Marvellous]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Really sad that this is even a topic in this day and age. Sadly i think they would get abuse from the stands. Must be horrible being in that situation. Rangers fans sing about a gay king from 300 odd years ago so there's hope! In all seriousness it matters not a jot what sexuality players are It just shows how backwards we are that Leeann even feels the need to mention it. I'd like to think that if any Hibs player felt they had to make it public they'd get a tremendous reception from the fans, i'm sure they would.

[AndyM_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I didn't know that. Did he receive much abuse at the time from opposition fans?

Yes. Including some really cringey stuff from Hibs fans.

Anyone who was at the game at Tynecastle that JF played against us (a dour 1-1 draw) should remember what an absolute embarrassment some of the fans were.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He did have several close male associates, including two Dutch courtiers to whom he granted English titles: Hans Willem Bentinck became Earl of Portland, and Arnold Joost van Keppel was created Earl of Albemarle. These relationships with male friends, and his apparent lack of mistresses, led William's enemies to suggest that he might prefer homosexual relationships. William's modern biographers disagree on the veracity of these allegations. Some believe there may have been truth to the rumours,[118] while others affirm that they were no more than figments of his enemies' imaginations, and that there was nothing unusual in someone childless like William adopting or evincing paternal affections for a younger man.[119]

Whatever the case, Bentinck's closeness to William did arouse jealousies at the Royal Court. William's young protegé, Keppel, aroused more gossip and suspicion, being 20 years William's junior, strikingly handsome, and having risen from being a royal page to an earldom with some ease.[120] Portland wrote to William in 1697 that "the kindness which your Majesty has for a young man, and the way in which you seem to authorise his liberties ... make the world say things I am ashamed to hear."[121] This, he said, was "tarnishing a reputation which has never before been subject to such accusations". William tersely dismissed these suggestions, however, saying, "It seems to me very extraordinary that it should be impossible to have esteem and regard for a young man without it being criminal."[121]

[Phil MaGlass]

Had a chat with a mate a while back, on the "poofs" word, always being bandied about, I think its used as a throw away word where alot of people using it dont think about it before they say it.Its in the blood(if you see what I mean) When I was young we used it to describe anyone and anything, folk are more aware of using the word nowadays, but I cant say I have ever seen it used against anyone who is gay, (I am not saying it hasnt).
As for gays coming out in Scottish fitba I dont think and would hope it would not be a problem on the terraces,as someone on here said, if a few were to come out at the same time it might make a difference,but one person coming out would undoubtedly get a rough time from the idiots away from the game/stadium.
Not that we care" oooh the Hibees are gayyy".

[HoboHarry]

I wish this was the biggest issue facing Scottish football. Whole ****** game is lagging miles behind the rest of the world and this is a real issue? I would happily play a team of Julian Clary's if it meant we could qualify for a world cup....

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I didn't know that. Did he receive much abuse at the time from opposition fans?

From what I remember of the crowd at "the Fashanu derby" Scottish football was most certainly not ready for an openly gay player at that point.

I'd have been in my late teens when he played for Hearts and in the early 90s my mates and I would have liberally chucked what would probably nowadays be called "playground homophobia" at each other.

That said, I think that day was one of the most notable moments of my life where I felt genuine sympathy for the appalling abuse that a fellow human being was openly having to suffer.

It was not on.

[Keith_M]

Considering we still vilify people born outside of wedlock, I don't hold out much hope for an openly gay footballer.