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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Apparently it's not insured (the government isn't obliged to insure it's property) and even if it was, the chances are that no company would have provided enough cover.

    If they can prove that one of the contractors was negligent and caused the fire, they may go after his insurers, but liability will probably be capped at around 10mÄ (which wouldn't even get you half of a Tynie mega-stand).
    Was the building owned by the French Government and not the Catholic Church? I had naturally assumed it was owned by the Vatican.


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  3. #62
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    While people go hungry on the streets.
    The two issues are not mutually exclusive.

  4. #63
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprouleflyer View Post
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    What I find interesting is around 700million euros has already been pledge to rebuild it, all within 24 hours.

    what could that amount of money do for the homeless in France?

    What a funny species we are, rally to a cause to rebuild a building and turn a blind eye to human suffering.

    Weird!
    You're absolutely right. The Catholic Church could pay for it a hundred times over as well. God knows what happens to all their cash but it ain't going to the poor.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    You're absolutely right. The Catholic Church could pay for it a hundred times over as well. God knows what happens to all their cash but it ain't going to the poor.
    While the riches of the Vatican state are of course at odds with many of the religious ethos it preaches and itís financial management gives plenty of reasons for doubt I still think your analysis is a touch lazy.

    https://catholicherald.co.uk/issues/...orce-for-good/

    And yes I know itís the CHerald but the point still stands ;-)

  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprouleflyer View Post
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    What I find interesting is around 700million euros has already been pledge to rebuild it, all within 24 hours.

    what could that amount of money do for the homeless in France?

    What a funny species we are, rally to a cause to rebuild a building and turn a blind eye to human suffering.

    Weird!
    Not weird. It's perfectly OK to want to see one of the world's most iconic, historic buildings saved while at the same time having a social conscience.

    Notre Dame is a globally recognised symbol of France in the way that Edinburgh Castle is to Scotland. Were the castle to be severely damaged and rendered unfit to visit I don't think you'd find too many citizens of Edinburgh calling for it to be abandoned as an unsafe ruin and for any repair funds to be donated to Shelter instead.

    As somebody else has pointed out, the issues are entirely separate.

  7. #66
    The Church is in a no win position really.

    If they don't put up the money it's 'they can afford it so why should x, y or z pay for it'. If they do it's 'imagine spending all that on relics and paintings when it could feed the poor'.
    PM Awards General Poster of The Year 2015, 2016, 2017. Probably robbed in other years

  8. #67
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    The Church is in a no win position really.

    If they don't put up the money it's 'they can afford it so why should x, y or z pay for it'. If they do it's 'imagine spending all that on relics and paintings when it could feed the poor'.
    Agreed - but it's a no win a position of their own making. They set themselves up as the moral authority on issues like human suffering and poverty whilst also spending incredible amounts of resources on a privileged hierarchy and vast monuments of stone and gold.

    They've managed to have it both ways for an awful long time.

    Not that I want to turn this into an anti religious thing, I wholeheartedly agree with the view that it is awful that such an amazing achievement of human ingenuity, labour, and creativity has been damaged. But that same ingenuity and dedication will allow it to continue its story into the future.

  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Interactive 3D image showing the damage.

    https://gigarama.ru/notredame/

  10. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Interactive 3D image showing the damage.

    https://gigarama.ru/notredame/
    Drones rock. It's actually fairly intact looking in terms of the stonework at least.

  11. #70
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    I don't understand why it's going to cost billions to repair. There's loads of roofers and builders in the yellow pages (or whatever they're called in Paris) and I bet they could do it for half the price.

    Probably make a start next week too.

  12. #71
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Drones rock. It's actually fairly intact looking in terms of the stonework at least.
    There are three holes on the vaulted (stone) roof, which was also heated to 800įc - the chances are that it will have to be redone. There's also a doubt over the stability of the gable that's nearest you when you open the link.

  13. #72
    @hibs.net private member wpj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    I don't understand why it's going to cost billions to repair. There's loads of roofers and builders in the yellow pages (or whatever they're called in Paris) and I bet they could do it for half the price.

    Probably make a start next week too.
    Got enough people with hi-vis jackets seemingly at a loss for things to do at the weekends too

  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
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    I note today that some estate down south has offered up its ancient oak trees to help rebuild Notre Dame.

    Ancient oak trees are a vanishing resource, it probably took c.1000 to build the cathedral roof - there are estimated to be only 2000 left in the whole of continental Europe, and maybe another 3000 in the UK.

    An ancient oak is not the same as a newly planted oak (or even a 2-300 year old oak) either as a building material or as a wildlife habitat. Some species of plant and animal are totally dependant on ancient oaks, they just can't live on a tree less than several hundred years old.

    Ripping up a load of ancient oaks to rebuild would be piling tragedy upon tragedy for me, these old trees are nature's equivalent of a cathedral and they can't just be rebuilt they are almost literally irreplaceable.

  15. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by barcahibs View Post
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    I note today that some estate down south has offered up its ancient oak trees to help rebuild Notre Dame.

    Ancient oak trees are a vanishing resource, it probably took c.1000 to build the cathedral roof - there are estimated to be only 2000 left in the whole of continental Europe, and maybe another 3000 in the UK.

    An ancient oak is not the same as a newly planted oak (or even a 2-300 year old oak) either as a building material or as a wildlife habitat. Some species of plant and animal are totally dependant on ancient oaks, they just can't live on a tree less than several hundred years old.

    Ripping up a load of ancient oaks to rebuild would be piling tragedy upon tragedy for me, these old trees are nature's equivalent of a cathedral and they can't just be rebuilt they are almost literally irreplaceable.
    A Duke offered it, heartfelt of course.

  16. #75
    First Team Regular The Pointer's Avatar
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    I remember being in Estonia a few years ago for a Scotland game and we went to Parnu (?) where a church spire was being restored. I was admiring the beautiful copper workmanship and remarked to a local. His response was that, while it was nice, the craftsmen were Polish and it would have been nicer to have it done in the Estonian style but they didn't have enough local guys with the skills to do it.

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