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Thread: Los Angelese FC

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    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Los Angelese FC

    Just watched their home game against Cincinnati on freesports and ye gods what an atmosphere their fans generated … they have a rail seat area behind one goal which holds 3,252 of the stadium's 22,000 capacity and they sang and chanted for the whole game, even letting off smoke bombs when the team scored In spite of only being in their 2nd season of MLS football and competing in a market already covered by the much older LA Galaxy they seem to have made in incredibly good job of attracting support selling out every home game they have played so far.

    I was inspired to have a wee look at their official site and alongside all of the commercial stuff you would expect to see it was clear that fan engagement is massively important to them. It wasn't just a page trying to sell them stuff and telling you where to contact supporters clubs, but a diatribe about how important their fans are to them, not just commercially but ON the pitch and how the idea of a rail seat kop behind the goal to generate the sort of atmosphere they now enjoy was of massive importance to the club from the very beginning.

    The upshot of all that from what I saw tonight is that going to watch LA FC play football looks like a fantastic noisy colourful experience. LA FC seem to be of the opinion that fans are there to be part of that experience, as important to the clubs future as anything which happens on the pitch, not just by turning up and paying up, but by being as integral a part of the clubs dynamism and chance of winning matches as the team on the park.

    The approach and mindset of a club in its infancy couldn't be more vibrant and fancentric compared to Hibs ….. While we ( not all of us .. I know ..I know ) beg the club to at least consider a rail seat ultras area behind the goal and get nowhere, that club recognised that such an area wasn't just something which would be nice, they saw it as integral to the clubs future and made sure it happened …. if what I saw tonight is anything to go by that mindset has worked an absolute treat for them. Easter Road lags so far behind the likes of them you would think we were the two year old club and they were the club with 140 odd years of experience which has shown them how to use their support to its maximum.

    Instead we have a staid and unimaginative approach towards how best to maximise our stadium and the support within it based on nothing more than an 'its aye been' philosophy and a 'what do you want now?' approach to calls for our most vocal supporters to be given the part of the stadium where they would by far be most effective. I cant help admitting that it pisses me off that a few neds acting like idiots can inspire the club to find £100,000 for CCTV cameras, but funding a standing area with a 2000 capacity behind the goals is seemingly out of the question.

    I have said it before, if we could get to anything like a vocal and noisy kop area like the one I watched tonight it would encourage youngsters to see Hibs as their club of choice over Hearts. I think spending money trying to achieve that would be money well spent in the long run.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Just watched their home game against Cincinnati on freesports and ye gods what an atmosphere their fans generated … they have a rail seat area behind one goal which holds 3,252 of the stadium's 22,000 capacity and they sang and chanted for the whole game, even letting off smoke bombs when the team scored In spite of only being in their 2nd season of MLS football and competing in a market already covered by the much older LA Galaxy they seem to have made in incredibly good job of attracting support selling out every home game they have played so far.

    I was inspired to have a wee look at their official site and alongside all of the commercial stuff you would expect to see it was clear that fan engagement is massively important to them. It wasn't just a page trying to sell them stuff and telling you where to contact supporters clubs, but a diatribe about how important their fans are to them, not just commercially but ON the pitch and how the idea of a rail seat kop behind the goal to generate the sort of atmosphere they now enjoy was of massive importance to the club from the very beginning.

    The upshot of all that from what I saw tonight is that going to watch LA FC play football looks like a fantastic noisy colourful experience. LA FC seem to be of the opinion that fans are there to be part of that experience, as important to the clubs future as anything which happens on the pitch, not just by turning up and paying up, but by being as integral a part of the clubs dynamism and chance of winning matches as the team on the park.

    The approach and mindset of a club in its infancy couldn't be more vibrant and fancentric compared to Hibs ….. While we ( not all of us .. I know ..I know ) beg the club to at least consider a rail seat ultras area behind the goal and get nowhere, that club recognised that such an area wasn't just something which would be nice, they saw it as integral to the clubs future and made sure it happened …. if what I saw tonight is anything to go by that mindset has worked an absolute treat for them. Easter Road lags so far behind the likes of them you would think we were the two year old club and they were the club with 140 odd years of experience which has shown them how to use their support to its maximum.

    Instead we have a staid and unimaginative approach towards how best to maximise our stadium and the support within it based on nothing more than an 'its aye been' philosophy and a 'what do you want now?' approach to calls for our most vocal supporters to be given the part of the stadium where they would by far be most effective. I cant help admitting that it pisses me off that a few neds acting like idiots can inspire the club to find £100,000 for CCTV cameras, but funding a standing area with a 2000 capacity behind the goals is seemingly out of the question.

    I have said it before, if we could get to anything like a vocal and noisy kop area like the one I watched tonight it would encourage youngsters to see Hibs as their club of choice over Hearts. I think spending money trying to achieve that would be money well spent in the long run.
    I would be all for safe standing perhaps in the lower section of the FF. With the upper section remaining as seated. I believe that generating a positive atmosphere on match days has a huge impact on the players and we should be exploring this as much as we can. I don't think the current set up of being tucked away up in the corner of the FF is bringing out the full potential but we shall see. Probably been mentioned several times but what actually is the reason for not considering safe standing in our stadium?

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    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibeesmad View Post
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    I would be all for safe standing perhaps in the lower section of the FF. With the upper section remaining as seated. I believe that generating a positive atmosphere on match days has a huge impact on the players and we should be exploring this as much as we can. I don't think the current set up of being tucked away up in the corner of the FF is bringing out the full potential but we shall see. Probably been mentioned several times but what actually is the reason for not considering safe standing in our stadium?
    The only place in ER where a safe standing area is viable and easily controllable is the FF lower. The reasons against it are 1) that's always been the family area and 2) it would cost too much money to install rail seats.

    The counter argument from those who support a standing area are three fold:

    1) … Moving the singing section / ultras to the FF lower would encourage the singing section to grow and its impact would be front and centre helping the team.

    2) … If the singing section / ultras were in the FF lower the self contained nature of that part of the stadium would make controlling any over the top excesses far easier.

    3) … The outlay required to create a rail seat section with a capacity of 2,000 would be worth the cost and effort if the atmosphere in the stadium was improved by it, which advocates of it like me maintain it would.

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    @hibs.net private member VivaPalmeiras's Avatar
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    The fines for letting off anything smoke related in LA must be eye-watering... :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Just watched their home game against Cincinnati on freesports and ye gods what an atmosphere their fans generated … they have a rail seat area behind one goal which holds 3,252 of the stadium's 22,000 capacity and they sang and chanted for the whole game, even letting off smoke bombs when the team scored In spite of only being in their 2nd season of MLS football and competing in a market already covered by the much older LA Galaxy they seem to have made in incredibly good job of attracting support selling out every home game they have played so far.

    I was inspired to have a wee look at their official site and alongside all of the commercial stuff you would expect to see it was clear that fan engagement is massively important to them. It wasn't just a page trying to sell them stuff and telling you where to contact supporters clubs, but a diatribe about how important their fans are to them, not just commercially but ON the pitch and how the idea of a rail seat kop behind the goal to generate the sort of atmosphere they now enjoy was of massive importance to the club from the very beginning.

    The upshot of all that from what I saw tonight is that going to watch LA FC play football looks like a fantastic noisy colourful experience. LA FC seem to be of the opinion that fans are there to be part of that experience, as important to the clubs future as anything which happens on the pitch, not just by turning up and paying up, but by being as integral a part of the clubs dynamism and chance of winning matches as the team on the park.

    The approach and mindset of a club in its infancy couldn't be more vibrant and fancentric compared to Hibs ….. While we ( not all of us .. I know ..I know ) beg the club to at least consider a rail seat ultras area behind the goal and get nowhere, that club recognised that such an area wasn't just something which would be nice, they saw it as integral to the clubs future and made sure it happened …. if what I saw tonight is anything to go by that mindset has worked an absolute treat for them. Easter Road lags so far behind the likes of them you would think we were the two year old club and they were the club with 140 odd years of experience which has shown them how to use their support to its maximum.

    Instead we have a staid and unimaginative approach towards how best to maximise our stadium and the support within it based on nothing more than an 'its aye been' philosophy and a 'what do you want now?' approach to calls for our most vocal supporters to be given the part of the stadium where they would by far be most effective. I cant help admitting that it pisses me off that a few neds acting like idiots can inspire the club to find £100,000 for CCTV cameras, but funding a standing area with a 2000 capacity behind the goals is seemingly out of the question.

    I have said it before, if we could get to anything like a vocal and noisy kop area like the one I watched tonight it would encourage youngsters to see Hibs as their club of choice over Hearts. I think spending money trying to achieve that would be money well spent in the long run.
    👏 Excellent post.
    I’m actually in Florida now, but last time I was here, I took my son to see Orlando City. They have rail seats that can be folded back so as there’s an option for a standing section, which was in play when we were there, and attracted us to stand there. They have a couple of areas cut out at front for a couple of people to start songs and bang drums, similar to what Barcelona have behind their goals. They also had a big drum of water to cool fans down with water! Adding to the fun. Real Madrid have a section similar behind the goals where EVERYONE wears white. Looks spectacular and definitely adds to the atmosphere.
    I don’t see why existing seats cannot be taken out and foldable rail seats put in their place, even on a trial period, and don’t think this would cost to much?

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    First Team Regular Renfrew_Hibby's Avatar
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    I think the way the whole of the MLS is going in regards to fan participation/engagement is fantastic.

    Just about all of the clubs would be similar to LA and Orlando in that there are really strong fan groups that have a direct say and impact in the whole match day experience.

    There has been a conscious decision to move away from the standard major league sports experience and they have actively looked at and taken the best of European and South American fan culture and put an American slant on it.

    I find it actually very political in nature and young millennials of a distinctly left wing persuasion have been attracted to follow a sport many didn't follow or play when they were kids.

    Chicago Fire for example have a fans group that is practically communist in its outlook and will campaign for various workers causes for example and hold rallies and protests. Orlando has a huge gay following and many pride flags can be seen at their games.

    This is replicated all over the league whether it's Portland with their 'Cascadian Culture' or Atlanta who are now one of the world's best supported sides in terms of actual attendances.

    Baseball and American football are now seen as elitest and frankly right wing sports where all of the above would not be tolerated so the MLS is seen as a sporting vehicle to voice and support issues shunned by the major sports.
    Last edited by Renfrew_Hibby; 15-04-2019 at 04:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renfrew_Hibby View Post
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    I think the way the whole of the MLS is going in regards to fan participation/engagement is fantastic.

    Just about all of the clubs would be similar to LA and Orlando in that there are really strong fan groups that have a direct say and impact of the whole match day experience.

    There has been a conscious decision to move away from the standard major league sports experience and they have actively looked at and taken the best of European and South American fan culture and put an American slant on it.

    I find it actually very political in nature and young millennials of a distinctly left wing persuasion have been attracted to follow a sport many didn't follow or play when they were kids.

    Chicago Fire for example have a fans group that is practically communist in its outlook and will campaign for various workers causes for example and hold rallies and protests. Orlando has a huge gay following and many pride flags can be seen at their games.

    This is replicated all over the league whether it's Portland with their 'Cascadian Culture' or Atlanta who are now one of the world's best supported sides in terms of actual attendances.

    Baseball and American football are now seen as elitest and frankly right wing sports where all of the above would not be tolerated so the MLS is seen as a sporting vehicle to voice and support issues shunned by the major sports.
    Interesting post, especially the last bit. Over a year ago I read an article which certainly supports your last paragraph, the followers of MLS seem to delight in the way they support their clubs compared to Baseball or American football fans and see it as almost a counter culture to the corporate and as you say more right wing attitude of the more established American sports. At first they looked to the UK for how to go about things, but if you ask me that has been well and truly binned in favour of a more South American outlook, a move which is reflected in places like Los Angeles and Portland.

    One of the interesting sides to that is the enthusiasm with which clubs building new stadiums or upgrading stadiums seem to have bought into this burgeoning fan culture … they want to encourage it, they want to provide the facilities ultras groups want and need to create the atmosphere. The people running Major league soccer from the owners to the league itself have recognised that the experience of going to a football match isn't just about what happens on the pitch, but watching and being part of a vibrant atmosphere … they see it as a selling point, a thing which will enthuse youngsters and lapsed fans from other professional sports.

    And that's what saddens me about the whole thing. We now have a country where relatively speaking football is still in its infancy and whose attempts at creating a football league in the 70s were laughed at. But when they decided to have another go they learnt every lesson they could from previous failures, they tried not to make the league a retirement home for washed up Europeans and South Americans, they binned the stupid middle class corporate approach and tried to make their game more authentic, all the while keeping the best parts of American customer service.

    It saddens me because the Americans seem to have recognised something we have forgotten. That atmosphere and fan engagement is everything, so much so that they have invested hundreds of millions in new football orientated stadiums rather than using the huge American football stadiums of the past, they recognised that a full 20,000 capacity stadium is far more desirable than a two thirds empty 60,000 one … because that gives you atmosphere. Whereas in Scotland we now have a mindset that ultras culture is fine, just so long as its not an inconvenience, and in the case of Hibs that mindset equates to the best part of the stadium conducive to the closest we will ever get to 'a wall' being left half empty at practically every game because we cant or refuse to recognise the importance of atmosphere and that an ultras section in the FF lower will grow as a result of being there and improve that atmosphere.

    I know there are a few folk who don't agree …. but go onto You tube and have a look at the 3,000 capacity ultras sections at LA FC or Portland Timbers in action and honestly tell me what you would like Easter Road to be like on a Saturday, their stadiums or Easter Road as it is most Saturdays at the moment …. I know which I would prefer.

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    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Interesting post, especially the last bit. Over a year ago I read an article which certainly supports your last paragraph, the followers of MLS seem to delight in the way they support their clubs compared to Baseball or American football fans and see it as almost a counter culture to the corporate and as you say more right wing attitude of the more established American sports. At first they looked to the UK for how to go about things, but if you ask me that has been well and truly binned in favour of a more South American outlook, a move which is reflected in places like Los Angeles and Portland.

    One of the interesting sides to that is the enthusiasm with which clubs building new stadiums or upgrading stadiums seem to have bought into this burgeoning fan culture … they want to encourage it, they want to provide the facilities ultras groups want and need to create the atmosphere. The people running Major league soccer from the owners to the league itself have recognised that the experience of going to a football match isn't just about what happens on the pitch, but watching and being part of a vibrant atmosphere … they see it as a selling point, a thing which will enthuse youngsters and lapsed fans from other professional sports.

    And that's what saddens me about the whole thing. We now have a country where relatively speaking football is still in its infancy and whose attempts at creating a football league in the 70s were laughed at. But when they decided to have another go they learnt every lesson they could from previous failures, they tried not to make the league a retirement home for washed up Europeans and South Americans, they binned the stupid middle class corporate approach and tried to make their game more authentic, all the while keeping the best parts of American customer service.

    It saddens me because the Americans seem to have recognised something we have forgotten. That atmosphere and fan engagement is everything, so much so that they have invested hundreds of millions in new football orientated stadiums rather than using the huge American football stadiums of the past, they recognised that a full 20,000 capacity stadium is far more desirable than a two thirds empty 60,000 one … because that gives you atmosphere. Whereas in Scotland we now have a mindset that ultras culture is fine, just so long as its not an inconvenience, and in the case of Hibs that mindset equates to the best part of the stadium conducive to the closest we will ever get to 'a wall' being left half empty at practically every game because we cant or refuse to recognise the importance of atmosphere and that an ultras section in the FF lower will grow as a result of being there and improve that atmosphere.

    I know there are a few folk who don't agree …. but go onto You tube and have a look at the 3,000 capacity ultras sections at LA FC or Portland Timbers in action and honestly tell me what you would like Easter Road to be like on a Saturday, their stadiums or Easter Road as it is most Saturdays at the moment …. I know which I would prefer.
    Brilliant post.

    The chainsaw guy in Portland is superb but as you the whole thing is completely fan orientated whereas here it seems like we are more of an commercial commodity.

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    Testimonial Due Waxy's Avatar
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    The FF lower would be amazing as a safe standing area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    Brilliant post.

    The chainsaw guy in Portland is superb but as you the whole thing is completely fan orientated whereas here it seems like we are more of an commercial commodity.
    As I recall Portland even have bits in front of their Ultras section where the fans can carefully chuck their smoke bombs …. can you imagine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waxy View Post
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    The FF lower would be amazing as a safe standing area.
    At the moment the only part of this which satisfies me is that Hearts have also failed to recognise and take the next step. The Gorgie Road stand at Tynecastle would make a superb safe standing area … take my word for it, if they ever do recognise that and move all their radges into that stand with rail seats they will leave us floundering and Tynecastle really will be the stadium for atmosphere they claim it is.

    I absolutely guarantee you that if that were to happen any kids in the future deciding what football club to support in the capital looking at Hearts with a stand like that and Hibs with our half empty library in the FF lower will take approximately 2 seconds making their decision and it wont be a good one for us. Thank F they have Budge in charge … for now.

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    Ironic no? The MLS (and USL) have found success by replicating International football, rather than trying to Americanize the sport, and now their model could be seen as inspirational to those they are copying.

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    I take it we are talking about Los Angeles Football Club ( LAFC) here?



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    How much would it cost to fill the North-East corner with a basic, single tier, extension of the East Stand? Fit that, and the first couple of blocks of the east with safe standing and allow the signing section to exist within that area.

    If the club weren't willing to borrow to build it could it be funded by a sponsorship/naming deal for the stadium?




    #persevered

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    Fans standing? Pyro? Tut tut.

    You wouldn’t know it but football in Scotland is actually a success story as far as crowds and interest goes. Take a look at the attendances in the 80s. If you went to the football you were an oddball. Different story when Sky came along and marketed it which coincided with more family friendly all seater stadiums and suddenly David Cameron was a fan of West Ham Villa and Tony Blair claimed to have seen Jackie Milburn play.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    Fans standing? Pyro? Tut tut.

    You wouldn’t know it but football in Scotland is actually a success story as far as crowds and interest goes. Take a look at the attendances in the 80s. If you went to the football you were an oddball. Different story when Sky came along and marketed it which coincided with more family friendly all seater stadiums and suddenly David Cameron was a fan of West Ham Villa and Tony Blair claimed to have seen Jackie Milburn play.
    Just as well Teresa isn’t within. 1m miles of football...
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/47712560

    Recent BBC report on FC Cincinnati fans...

    I was a NY Red Bulls game recently and the singing section was bouncing for 90 minutes. But everyone is so well behaved, there's no swearing and I was really struck by how the referee's decisions were accepted without much more than the odd groan.

    I was also at the basketball - Brooklyn Nets - and they put on a show. They even had a wee singing section. Dancers (male and female) and booming music during breaks, competitions with the crowd, cameras on kids (and a few adults) goofing around to get on the big screens. There was even a veteran civil rights campaigner being honoured and she gave a very moving speech. The prices were eye-watering though... $15 for a can of beer brought to your seat, although there were slightly cheaper bars nearby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    3) … The outlay required to create a rail seat section with a capacity of 2,000 would be worth the cost and effort if the atmosphere in the stadium was improved by it, which advocates of it like me maintain it would.

    Roughly how much would that cost?

    (I don't know the price of these things, but other clubs have them)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Interesting post, especially the last bit. Over a year ago I read an article which certainly supports your last paragraph, the followers of MLS seem to delight in the way they support their clubs compared to Baseball or American football fans and see it as almost a counter culture to the corporate and as you say more right wing attitude of the more established American sports. At first they looked to the UK for how to go about things, but if you ask me that has been well and truly binned in favour of a more South American outlook, a move which is reflected in places like Los Angeles and Portland.

    One of the interesting sides to that is the enthusiasm with which clubs building new stadiums or upgrading stadiums seem to have bought into this burgeoning fan culture … they want to encourage it, they want to provide the facilities ultras groups want and need to create the atmosphere. The people running Major league soccer from the owners to the league itself have recognised that the experience of going to a football match isn't just about what happens on the pitch, but watching and being part of a vibrant atmosphere … they see it as a selling point, a thing which will enthuse youngsters and lapsed fans from other professional sports.

    And that's what saddens me about the whole thing. We now have a country where relatively speaking football is still in its infancy and whose attempts at creating a football league in the 70s were laughed at. But when they decided to have another go they learnt every lesson they could from previous failures, they tried not to make the league a retirement home for washed up Europeans and South Americans, they binned the stupid middle class corporate approach and tried to make their game more authentic, all the while keeping the best parts of American customer service.

    It saddens me because the Americans seem to have recognised something we have forgotten. That atmosphere and fan engagement is everything, so much so that they have invested hundreds of millions in new football orientated stadiums rather than using the huge American football stadiums of the past, they recognised that a full 20,000 capacity stadium is far more desirable than a two thirds empty 60,000 one … because that gives you atmosphere. Whereas in Scotland we now have a mindset that ultras culture is fine, just so long as its not an inconvenience, and in the case of Hibs that mindset equates to the best part of the stadium conducive to the closest we will ever get to 'a wall' being left half empty at practically every game because we cant or refuse to recognise the importance of atmosphere and that an ultras section in the FF lower will grow as a result of being there and improve that atmosphere.

    I know there are a few folk who don't agree …. but go onto You tube and have a look at the 3,000 capacity ultras sections at LA FC or Portland Timbers in action and honestly tell me what you would like Easter Road to be like on a Saturday, their stadiums or Easter Road as it is most Saturdays at the moment …. I know which I would prefer.
    When the U. S. embrace something they really embrace it & then work hard at becoming the best at it. Just watch in the years to come how football ( soccer ) prospers.

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    I get the emotional attachment to terracing. I loved those days myself. I can see that safe standing areas could bolster the atmosphere. I don’t think it is viable though.

    It would involve losing a hefty chunk of the football budget to instal. Then, what would the ticket price for this area be? No doubt expectation would be that it should be cheaper than rest of ground which would rub salt in to the budget loss. If price wasn’t discounted, or actually increased to offset the demand, would folk pay it?

    It’s not a question of fans not being put front-and-centre of the club’s thinking. It’s simple business sense.

    In a lot of cases in the MLS you’ve got a blank canvas, either a new stadium or a newly-franchised club. You’ve got sponsorship all over the shop. With the likes of Celtic and Dortmund there’s squillions in the bank. None of this applies to Hibs, or probably any none-treble-treble-chasing club in Scotland (are Aberdeen planning safe standing at their new place?).

    No doubting it’s a nice idea, but it’s only that.
    Last edited by Glory Lurker; 15-04-2019 at 08:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glory Lurker View Post
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    I get the emotional attachment to terracing. I loved those days myself. I can see that safe standing areas could bolster the atmosphere. I don’t think it is viable though.

    It would involve losing a hefty chunk of the football budget to instal. Then, what would the ticket price for this area be? No doubt expectation would be that it should be cheaper than rest of ground which would rub salt in to the budget loss. If price wasn’t discounted, or actually increased to offset the demand, would folk pay it?

    It’s not a question of fans not being put front-and-centre of the club’s thinking. It’s simple business sense.

    In a lot of cases in the MLS you’ve got a blank canvas, either a new stadium or a newly-franchised club. You’ve got sponsorship all over the shop. With the likes of Celtic and Dortmund there’s squillions in the bank. None of this applies to Hibs, or probably any none-treble-treble-chasing club in Scotland (are Aberdeen planning safe standing at their new place?).

    No doubting it’s a nice idea, but it’s only that.
    A very cursory check on Google gives the cost of an average rail seat as £80 which means 2000 of them in the FF lower would come in at £160,000. Its a fair expense, but its hardly crippling in the grand scheme of things. I'm at a loss to understand why folk would expect to pay less for a standing space when by definition they would be choosing to do so … the majority of folk you would expect to use a standing area are already paying for a seat and choosing not to use it.

    Anyway, I continue to maintain that you wouldn't be getting nothing for that money, IMO the improved atmosphere a dedicated standing area would bring would help the team and attract new fans to the club.

  23. #22
    I've been to loads MLS games.

    It's true the fans are noisy. It's also true that they are noisy regardless of what's happening on the pitch.

    Most have no idea why or what they are reacting to.

    It's all a bit fake tbh. And hardly anyone seems to be affected by a win, draw or loss.

    Not for me.

  24. #23
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuart-farquhar View Post
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    I've been to loads MLS games.

    It's true the fans are noisy. It's also true that they are noisy regardless of what's happening on the pitch.

    Most have no idea why or what they are reacting to.

    It's all a bit fake tbh. And hardly anyone seems to be affected by a win, draw or loss.

    Not for me.
    There is probably some truth in this. I do get the feeling that the cart is a wee bit before the horse in MLS fan culture, where the rush to embrace enthusiastic displays of support is not entirely connected to results on the pitch.

    Something that will take a number of years to be measurable will be the fans actual dedication to their clubs when the initial enthusiasm wears off. It might be great fun just now, but will that enthusiasm be maintained when the club you support fails to make the post season for a few years and your loyalty is really tested? At what point will MLS get to the stage where they have to embrace a multi league system with promotion and relegation and how will American fans react to a system totally alien to them if it happens?

    With the success of MLS just now they could end up with a problem. Unlike American football you can have a successful 'soccer' club in a relatively small city, Portland for example is a city of around 600,000 people. As football grows in popularity could a desire for small to medium sized cities to join in with a sport they can play at the highest level unlike Baseball or American football which need huge catchment areas and limit their participants through the franchise system, lead to an overload of possible expansion teams. MLS currently operates a franchise system, but would it be sustainable in the face of pressure to expand.

    And on that subject. With their enthusiasm for and willingness to embrace European and South American fan culture MLS fans will be all too aware that American sports traditional franchise system where a sports club can uproot overnight and relocate to another city a thousand miles away is an absolute anathema to football fans around the world … the idea is absolutely unthinkable to us. If that was to happen with one of their major clubs would the backlash be far more intense than with other sports and affect enthusiasm for the whole shooting match.

    Interesting times for football in the USA …. the next 20 years will be worth watching

  25. #24
    LAFC have 22 owners with an estimated combined net worth of 4.5 billion dollars.

    https://www.angelsonparade.com/2014/...-football-club

    They can afford a safe standing section, unfortunately we can't.

  26. #25
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    Been to a few of the main american sports, not catchball though...

    Basketball: razzamataz overload with ticket prices way ott (cleve cavs)

    Baseball: absolutely love it, great day out. Beer at seat, some great food options and once you get the tactics in rounders an interesting spectacle. Nae atmosohere like football though.

    Soccer: columbus Crew, tailgate before game and $1 beer nights... not too fake, was in with their ultras, kilt and all...great laugh and somehow ended up in a rikshaw back to pub after game... i saw the photos...

  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Interesting post, especially the last bit. Over a year ago I read an article which certainly supports your last paragraph, the followers of MLS seem to delight in the way they support their clubs compared to Baseball or American football fans and see it as almost a counter culture to the corporate and as you say more right wing attitude of the more established American sports. At first they looked to the UK for how to go about things, but if you ask me that has been well and truly binned in favour of a more South American outlook, a move which is reflected in places like Los Angeles and Portland.

    One of the interesting sides to that is the enthusiasm with which clubs building new stadiums or upgrading stadiums seem to have bought into this burgeoning fan culture … they want to encourage it, they want to provide the facilities ultras groups want and need to create the atmosphere. The people running Major league soccer from the owners to the league itself have recognised that the experience of going to a football match isn't just about what happens on the pitch, but watching and being part of a vibrant atmosphere … they see it as a selling point, a thing which will enthuse youngsters and lapsed fans from other professional sports.

    And that's what saddens me about the whole thing. We now have a country where relatively speaking football is still in its infancy and whose attempts at creating a football league in the 70s were laughed at. But when they decided to have another go they learnt every lesson they could from previous failures, they tried not to make the league a retirement home for washed up Europeans and South Americans, they binned the stupid middle class corporate approach and tried to make their game more authentic, all the while keeping the best parts of American customer service.

    It saddens me because the Americans seem to have recognised something we have forgotten. That atmosphere and fan engagement is everything, so much so that they have invested hundreds of millions in new football orientated stadiums rather than using the huge American football stadiums of the past, they recognised that a full 20,000 capacity stadium is far more desirable than a two thirds empty 60,000 one … because that gives you atmosphere. Whereas in Scotland we now have a mindset that ultras culture is fine, just so long as its not an inconvenience, and in the case of Hibs that mindset equates to the best part of the stadium conducive to the closest we will ever get to 'a wall' being left half empty at practically every game because we cant or refuse to recognise the importance of atmosphere and that an ultras section in the FF lower will grow as a result of being there and improve that atmosphere.

    I know there are a few folk who don't agree …. but go onto You tube and have a look at the 3,000 capacity ultras sections at LA FC or Portland Timbers in action and honestly tell me what you would like Easter Road to be like on a Saturday, their stadiums or Easter Road as it is most Saturdays at the moment …. I know which I would prefer.
    Great post !

    Scotland lacks the vision at times.

    As others have said you would think we would learn from our history.

    Having been to MLS games I did enjoy the experience.

    I’m not saying copy them completely but it’s a no brainer of turning the Famous Five Lower into a singing section and relocating the over subscribed but often half full Family section.

    The family section and singing section are 2 of the most important areas of the club.

    Family being the future fans and singing section the noise / 12th player / that something extra that fans want to be part of.

    I also agree sorting this before Hearts will entice more fans to ER.

    The sad thing is we spend 100K on CCTV and while I understand the importance the tannoy and food have been crap for years and fully neglected.

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    There is probably some truth in this. I do get the feeling that the cart is a wee bit before the horse in MLS fan culture, where the rush to embrace enthusiastic displays of support is not entirely connected to results on the pitch.

    Something that will take a number of years to be measurable will be the fans actual dedication to their clubs when the initial enthusiasm wears off. It might be great fun just now, but will that enthusiasm be maintained when the club you support fails to make the post season for a few years and your loyalty is really tested? At what point will MLS get to the stage where they have to embrace a multi league system with promotion and relegation and how will American fans react to a system totally alien to them if it happens?

    With the success of MLS just now they could end up with a problem. Unlike American football you can have a successful 'soccer' club in a relatively small city, Portland for example is a city of around 600,000 people. As football grows in popularity could a desire for small to medium sized cities to join in with a sport they can play at the highest level unlike Baseball or American football which need huge catchment areas and limit their participants through the franchise system, lead to an overload of possible expansion teams. MLS currently operates a franchise system, but would it be sustainable in the face of pressure to expand.

    And on that subject. With their enthusiasm for and willingness to embrace European and South American fan culture MLS fans will be all too aware that American sports traditional franchise system where a sports club can uproot overnight and relocate to another city a thousand miles away is an absolute anathema to football fans around the world … the idea is absolutely unthinkable to us. If that was to happen with one of their major clubs would the backlash be far more intense than with other sports and affect enthusiasm for the whole shooting match.

    Interesting times for football in the USA …. the next 20 years will be worth watching
    g

    You're right about Portland, but the Metro area is much bigger and of course takes in Vancouver etc in Washington. Their fans are generally very knowledgeable and watch European and in particular English games. The whole Timber Army thing, whilst definitely noisy and colorful is stage managed. I find it confusing when say Timbers are defending desperately and the crowd around me are seemingly cheering another game. The "xxxx Seattle "chant is however decent. The log guy however........ WTF.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glory Lurker View Post
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    I get the emotional attachment to terracing. I loved those days myself. I can see that safe standing areas could bolster the atmosphere. I don’t think it is viable though.

    It would involve losing a hefty chunk of the football budget to instal. Then, what would the ticket price for this area be? No doubt expectation would be that it should be cheaper than rest of ground which would rub salt in to the budget loss. If price wasn’t discounted, or actually increased to offset the demand, would folk pay it?

    It’s not a question of fans not being put front-and-centre of the club’s thinking. It’s simple business sense.

    In a lot of cases in the MLS you’ve got a blank canvas, either a new stadium or a newly-franchised club. You’ve got sponsorship all over the shop. With the likes of Celtic and Dortmund there’s squillions in the bank. None of this applies to Hibs, or probably any none-treble-treble-chasing club in Scotland (are Aberdeen planning safe standing at their new place?).

    No doubting it’s a nice idea, but it’s only that.
    Don't think anyone would expect it to be cheaper. Celtic's standing area isn't cheaper. Visiting places like Alloa, QoS and Ayr etc a couple of season's back there was no difference in price between standing and sitting IIRC.

    Aberdeen have consulted fans on their new place and behind the goal will have standing areas > https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/...a-for-stadium/

    Hearts have a few seats installed already for some trial thing > https://twitter.com/FalkirkFC/status...64516048801793

    We have £100k to spend on a cctv camera after 1 fanny launched a glass bottle but can't put the same money to improve the match day experience and atmosphere which everyone will benefit from.

    Hibs and Scotland as a whole aren't particularly interested in supporters and fan culture so long as ST's are being bought (IMO)

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
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    LAFC have 22 owners with an estimated combined net worth of 4.5 billion dollars.

    https://www.angelsonparade.com/2014/...-football-club

    They can afford a safe standing section, unfortunately we can't.
    It would cost a maximum of £80 per rail seat at a total of £160,000 for 2000 of them, if my 30 second search of Google was anything to go by. It seems to me that more and more clubs will be going down the route of having a standing area at their stadiums over the next couple of years, with the ultra corporate EPL even seriously looking at it. I'm sure in the next year or so the price will probably come down.

    In the past Hibs have found millions to invest in the stadium and as has been widely stated have now found £100,000 to upgrade its CCTV on the back of a couple of serious, but at the end of the day isolated, incidents. I would agree that £160,000 is not an insignificant amount for Hibs, I would disagree that its in the realms of unaffordable, or at least unfindable.

    This debate in my opinion all comes down to how much credence you give to the theory that atmosphere inside a stadium is a vital component for a club on matchdays. I have heard more than one manager say that in this day and age though it rarely intimidates the away team it goes a long way to motivating and driving on the home team.
    I also stick by my assertion that a vibrant and growable self contained 'ultras' section as the FF lower would be would in the long term be a positive factor in attracting youngsters to support Hibs …. youngsters want to be part of stuff like that and want to support teams with a good reputation for atmosphere and noisy supporters. As I said, this wouldn't be money for nothing, it could have huge benefits.

    This is the trouble with the people who run football clubs, with the possible exception of Tottenham Hotspur who have made atmosphere a priority in the design of their new stadium, the design and construction of stadiums is controlled by folk who talk about atmosphere but seem unable to recognise the factors both in stadium design and fan engagement which create and drive it and Hibs over the years have been a prime example.

    If there had been a plan to fully develop ER into an enclosed stadium then the far too large disconnect between the end and side stands would have been understandable …. However, it's pretty clear that Hibs had, and to date still don't have, any plans to fill in the corners to make the stadium more intimidating and atmospheric. If that was the case from the beginning why the hell didn't they construct the West and East stands by what would have been just a few more meters and have them far closer to the end stands?

    Anyway, that ship appears to have sailed and that leaves us looking at options we have to maximise atmosphere using our existing facility … In my opinion the intransigence Hibs are showing over the location of the 'family section' within the stadium is pretty short sighted. As I said, if I was owner of Hearts I would be looking at this and knocking doors out of windows in order to beat Hibs to the punch by constructing a standing area at the rust arena, in the full and certain knowledge that it would be stealing a significant march on the club I am competing with for support.

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