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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Didn't have to go any further into this thread after seeing this comment.

    The army in this country is supposed to be apolitical … nobody is stupid enough to think that soldiers don't have their personal political leanings, of course they do. But to see British soldiers using an elected politician of ANY hue for target practice, even in jest, is absolutely unacceptable and indefensible.

    I read a book by Ant Middleton ( the ex SAS guy from the TV ) recently … his ambition had always been to join the paras, but after becoming one it didn't take him long to realise that they were nothing more than an unruly mob and not particularly intelligent .. his words not mine. If proof of that was needed the level of stupidity required to film yourself in uniform using a politician for target practice illustrates his opinion perfectly …. if they didn't have the intelligence to be aware of what the consequences of their actions would be its a sad reflection of the level of intellectual reasoning of your average British soldier … lets hope the opposition are just as thick if we ever get involved in a real war.

    The whole lot of them should have been court martialled and sacked and I couldn't care less if their target had been Corbyn. May or Arlene Foster.
    Ant Middleton has never served a day in the Parachute Regiment however , he was 9 Para Sq Royal Engineers (not even Infantry), massive difference! He did however kick **** out of Police Officer and done Jail time, so you can take your tongue out of his arse.

    I might add, The Parachute Regiment has had more VC winners since the 2nd World War than any other Regiment, they continue to come top all of the Infantry career courses, they continue to supply the SAS with the most blokes and they always get the job done!

    Oh, and one final note, the Soldiers in question are actually from the Guards Division(Guards Para Platoon) Not the Parachute Regiment, they have had a Platoon attachment to 3 Para for a few years. Needless to say the “Real” Paras are not impressed with the weapon handling drills, they couldn’t give a monkeys about the rest though.


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  3. #152
    @hibs.net private member Silent Boatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheReg! View Post
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    Ant Middleton has never served a day in the Parachute Regiment however , he was 9 Para Sq Royal Engineers (not even Infantry), massive difference! He did however kick **** out of Police Officer and done Jail time, so you can take your tongue out of his arse.

    I might add, The Parachute Regiment has had more VC winners since the 2nd World War than any other Regiment, they continue to come top all of the Infantry career courses, they continue to supply the SAS with the most blokes and they always get the job done!

    Oh, and one final note, the Soldiers in question are actually from the Guards Division(Guards Para Platoon) Not the Parachute Regiment, they have had a Platoon attachment to 3 Para for a few years. Needless to say the “Real” Paras are not impressed with the weapon handling drills, they couldn’t give a monkeys about the rest though.
    Nice to read facts for a change.

  4. #153
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    I've got no reason to doubt what you're saying but, out of interest, why would this be ignored by those who want some sort of action taken against Blair?
    The charges against Blair by his opponents were that of illegality, but arguably the same charges could have been applied to Kosovo and Sierra Leone. They weren't.

    Similarly, there wasn't any real backlash to his Chicago speech when he set out his doctrine, even though that made a case for potentially illegal military intervention in pursuit of a supposed greater good.

    What was different about Iraq was that it brought in some different factors. One was a large dose of anti-Americanism. Post 9/11 I knew a number of people who would happily identify as being of the left, who while not gloating, saw the Twin Towers attack as some form of deserved comeuppance for the US. I could understand their perspective and I'm not rushing to criticize it.

    As the groundswell for the war developed, it was clear that a large part of the animosity towards Blair was a belief that he was essentially behaving as a lapdog for the Americans, and especially the cabal who were hate figures for the left - Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al.

    I have no doubt that the lead-up to the war was very murky and there were undoubtedly illegitimate agendas being pushed within the US administration. I also suspect that Blair may even have been seen as a 'useful idiot' by the likes of Cheney.

    I think it was all to easy for a lot of those in the anti-war movement to swallow the line that Blair was Bush's poodle. I think the truth is that Blair had, rightly or wrongly, strongly held beliefs about the necessity of liberal intervention. Sometimes it bordered on Messianic and I don't think many of us were too comfortable with that.

    Nevertheless, there is a cohort of people who wanted Blair tried for war crimes, but their motives are questionable as they weren't speaking out when we committed our military into Kosovo and Sierra Leone.

    And just as an added reminder for those who think Iraq was all about sheepishly following the Americans - when Blair made his Chicago speech, it was during Clinton's presidency. It was well before 9/11 and Bush wasn't favourite to win the presidency, I'm not even sure he had announced to stand.

    And when Blair made his speech, he singled out two men as the greatest risk to international security - Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein.

    Blair was geared up for all this a long time before 2003. A lot of those who wanted a trial ignored that and can't really answer as to why they didn't speak out when we undertook 'liberal interventions' elsewhere. But then, with those interventions, there wasn't the easy hate-caricatures within the Bush administration to rail against.
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  5. #154
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY View Post
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    Id go along with this.
    Me too, i have thrown darts at a dart board in the past, there's been every herts gimp i can remember, and John Greig was always a huge favourite back in the day.

    Its PC gone mad.

  6. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by TheReg! View Post
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    Ant Middleton has never served a day in the Parachute Regiment however , he was 9 Para Sq Royal Engineers (not even Infantry), massive difference! He did however kick **** out of Police Officer and done Jail time, so you can take your tongue out of his arse.

    I might add, The Parachute Regiment has had more VC winners since the 2nd World War than any other Regiment, they continue to come top all of the Infantry career courses, they continue to supply the SAS with the most blokes and they always get the job done!

    Oh, and one final note, the Soldiers in question are actually from the Guards Division(Guards Para Platoon) Not the Parachute Regiment, they have had a Platoon attachment to 3 Para for a few years. Needless to say the “Real” Paras are not impressed with the weapon handling drills, they couldn’t give a monkeys about the rest though.
    You've put that a lot better than I could. Interesting to hear from somebody with a bit of bona fide armed forces expertise.

  7. #156
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    If British soldiers are by and large 'thick' then why is it such a surprise that they would do something like this? In their eyes Corbyn's probably seen as fair game because of his record of voting against military action on every occasion it's been proposed since he first became an MP, coupled with his less than convincing rebuttal of accusations of harbouring sympathy for certain terrorist groups.

    More generally, I'd be surprised if using pictures of high profile figures from all walks of life for target practice hasn't been going on for many years. For 'thick' soldiers it probably adds a bit of an edge to repetitive target practice while holed up in inhospitable regions of the world, nothing more sinister. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest it's only because this incident happened to be filmed that anyone is remotely bothered by it. In that context, the fact the story disappeared from the news agenda almost as quickly as it surfaced sums up how insignificant it is.
    So what? In this country the army is a necessary component required to defend our interests, whether or not those interests are legitimate or not, that is open to debate. They do not take the blame for whatever conflicts they are asked to get involved in, but the other side of that coin is that they cannot be seen showing approval or disapproval of the politicians they may one day have to act on the orders of.

    The army navy and air force and those who serve in them cannot to seen to be on one side of any political divide when they are serving personnel. They cannot compromise, or be seen to be compromising, their political neutrality in any way, surely the reasons for that are blindingly obvious.

    These soldiers did that and it doesn't matter a toss if it was in Afghanistan or Aldershot or if they were Paras or the catering corps …. they should be sacked.

  8. #157
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheReg! View Post
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    Ant Middleton has never served a day in the Parachute Regiment however , he was 9 Para Sq Royal Engineers (not even Infantry), massive difference! He did however kick **** out of Police Officer and done Jail time, so you can take your tongue out of his arse.

    I might add, The Parachute Regiment has had more VC winners since the 2nd World War than any other Regiment, they continue to come top all of the Infantry career courses, they continue to supply the SAS with the most blokes and they always get the job done!

    Oh, and one final note, the Soldiers in question are actually from the Guards Division(Guards Para Platoon) Not the Parachute Regiment, they have had a Platoon attachment to 3 Para for a few years. Needless to say the “Real” Paras are not impressed with the weapon handling drills, they couldn’t give a monkeys about the rest though.
    All of Ant Middleton's indiscretions were widely covered in the book I read, the guy openly admitted that he was an utter ********. As for him being in the paras or not … he did the training and was awarded a maroon beret so I presume that made him one, even if as he freely admitted the regiment he ended up in wasn't the glamorous 2 para or whatever.

    Anyway … the merits or lack of them of Ant Middleton aren't the issue here, I merely used him as an example of a serving soldier who wasn't impressed by some of the behaviour of his fellow soldiers …. "take your tongue out of his arse" …. grow up.

    I was not by the way calling into question the courage of the people who serve with the parachute regiment or any other branch of the armed services for that matter, so I'm not sure why you needed the list of achievements, I was calling into question the level of intelligence of folk who must have known what they were doing was utterly unacceptable and yet being daft enough to put it on social media … a professional army needs brains as well as brawn … and that in a democracy especially means not only being apolitical but being seen to be apolitical.

  9. #158
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheReg! View Post
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    Fair enough, I apologise and sorry that I came over as a dick. My back was up due to the young lads getting thrown under a bus, for what was a bit of, what I’d call fun on a ****n boring 6 month tour. If anyone is to blame it’s the lad who posted it online. We’ve all done stupid things back in our younger years that we wouldn’t do now, the only difference is there wasn’t social media or camera phones back when we ****ed up.
    You did come across as a dick. No worries, I've seen it before. Thanks for the acknowledgment. 😘

    Young lads, you say! I'd say they were guys who'd been through the thick and thin of operational duties previously, and if they'd engaged their brains, they wouldn't have been put through the mixer(film maker included).

    Thanks for the apology. 👍.
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 12-04-2019 at 07:06 PM.

  10. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Young lads, you say! I'd say they were guys who'd been through the thick and thin of operational duties previously, and if they'd engaged their brains, they wouldn't have been put through the mixer(film maker included).
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  11. #160
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    All of Ant Middleton's indiscretions were widely covered in the book I read, the guy openly admitted that he was an utter ********. As for him being in the paras or not … he did the training and was awarded a maroon beret so I presume that made him one, even if as he freely admitted the regiment he ended up in wasn't the glamorous 2 para or whatever.

    Anyway … the merits or lack of them of Ant Middleton aren't the issue here, I merely used him as an example of a serving soldier who wasn't impressed by some of the behaviour of his fellow soldiers …. "take your tongue out of his arse" …. grow up.

    I was not by the way calling into question the courage of the people who serve with the parachute regiment or any other branch of the armed services for that matter, so I'm not sure why you needed the list of achievements, I was calling into question the level of intelligence of folk who must have known what they were doing was utterly unacceptable and yet being daft enough to put it on social media … a professional army needs brains as well as brawn … and that in a democracy especially means not only being apolitical but being seen to be apolitical.

    Ant middleton also served and saw combat with the Royal Marines and the SBS. In his book he comments strongly on the different behaviours he witnessed and partook in, in both the paras and marines.

    The police officer incident isn’t also as easily described as him “kicking **** out a police officer”, albeit he took full responsibility for his actions.

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