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  1. #121
    First Team Regular Lester B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
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    To think people get mocked for thoughts like that!
    I know. Imagine


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  3. #122
    Testimonial Due HibbyCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    The President of the USA was in on the plan to kill thousands of American citizens by crashing planes into 2 of New York's iconic and irreplaceable buildings?

    Incredible what people want to believe.
    Not sure anybody said he was in on a plan to kill thousands of citizens and bring down the iconic NY buildings using planes - thats just a generalised outlandish summary of it to make people who question it look a bit silly (something a conspirer would do )

    Most people who i've spoken to about it doubt that he wasn't aware of an attack on US soil. He may have been warned and failed to act, either through being incompetent at his job or he believed an attack would allow a response, 'for the greater good'. Key word being MAY; none of us know what actually happened so can't say one way or the other.

    There are rumours that Britain knew about Coventry getting bombed to **** during WW2, but Churchill couldnt deter it without giving away we had broken the Enigma code. I also believe that Churchill sank a French Naval fleet during WW2 to prevent Germany capturing those ships, killing over 1000 French soldiers.

    It's not about 'what people want to believe'; some people just question the truth they have been told, and quite rightly so.

  4. #123
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibbyCal View Post
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    Not sure anybody said he was in on a plan to kill thousands of citizens and bring down the iconic NY buildings using planes - thats just a generalised outlandish summary of it to make people who question it look a bit silly (something a conspirer would do )

    Most people who i've spoken to about it doubt that he wasn't aware of an attack on US soil. He may have been warned and failed to act, either through being incompetent at his job or he believed an attack would allow a response, 'for the greater good'. Key word being MAY; none of us know what actually happened so can't say one way or the other.

    There are rumours that Britain knew about Coventry getting bombed to **** during WW2, but Churchill couldnt deter it without giving away we had broken the Enigma code. I also believe that Churchill sank a French Naval fleet during WW2 to prevent Germany capturing those ships, killing over 1000 French soldiers.

    It's not about 'what people want to believe'; some people just question the truth they have been told, and quite rightly so.
    Questioning what they've been told is one thing, but they're also making up the answers.

    If there was going to be an attack against the US, it wouldn't need the President's permission to repel it. We do know what happened. A number of terrorists hijacked a number of jets and flew them into, and at, important American buildings.

    Of course the President didn't know. If he, or the US security services had known, they would have stopped the attack. It's ludicrous to believe otherwise.

    The suggestion that they would sacrifice thousands of American lives and risk untold damage to the country's economy in order to justify a war in Afghanistan is preposterous.

    What kind of a mind could imagine that?
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 14-08-2019 at 03:07 PM.

  5. #124
    Testimonial Due HibbyCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Was Bin Laden hiding in a cave? Was he not eventually found in a detached house in the suburbs of a Pakistani city, a space he was reported to have occupied for several years?
    TBF, that was some hideout he had.

  6. #125
    Testimonial Due HibbyCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Questioning what they've been told is one thing, but they're also making up the answers.

    If there was going to be an attack against the US, it wouldn't need the President's permission to repel it.we do know what happened. A number of terrorists hijacked a number of jets and flew them into, and at, important American buildings.

    Of course the President didn't know. If he, or the US security services had known, they would have stopped the attack. It's ludicrous to believe otherwise.

    The suggestion that they would sacrifice thousands of American lives and risk untold damage to the country's economy in order to justify a war in Afghanistan is preposterous.

    What kind of a mind could imagine that?
    The first line I can partly agree with. There are some who go in with an agenda they want to believe and will overlook evidence to fit that. Myself, I love conspiracy theories. Do I believe the majority of them? Course not, but I do like to see things from a different perspective. I also like to see how ridiculous some of them are, such as flat earth.

    In response to the part in bold, there is evidence to suggest that America were aware Japan were planning an attack 3 days before Pearl Harbour happened, yet they failed to act. Again, not saying they were in on the attack, just that they didn't act.

  7. #126
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibbyCal View Post
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    The first line I can partly agree with. There are some who go in with an agenda they want to believe and will overlook evidence to fit that. Myself, I love conspiracy theories. Do I believe the majority of them? Course not, but I do like to see things from a different perspective. I also like to see how ridiculous some of them are, such as flat earth.

    In response to the part in bold, there is evidence to suggest that America were aware Japan were planning an attack 3 days before Pearl Harbour happened, yet they failed to act. Again, not saying they were in on the attack, just that they didn't act.
    I've only ever read conspiracy theorists saying that. All the credible historians say the opposite.

    Japan didn't declare war on the USA until it attacked Pearl Harbor.

    That was a deliverate tactic used to keep the American military in the dark. They didn't expect it, and they literally didn't see it coming.
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  8. #127
    First Team Regular Lester B's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Hibbyradge;5886940]Questioning what they've been told is one thing, but they're also making up the answers.

    If there was going to be an attack against the US, it wouldn't need the President's permission to repel it. We do know what happened. A number of terrorists hijacked a number of jets and flew them into, and at, important American buildings.

    Of course the President didn't know. If he, or the US security services had known, they would have stopped the attack. It's ludicrous to believe otherwise.

    The suggestion that they would sacrifice thousands of American lives and risk untold damage to the country's economy in order to justify a war in Afghanistan is preposterous.

    What kind of a mind could imagine that?[/QUOTE]


  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by HibbyCal View Post
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    There are rumours that Britain knew about Coventry getting bombed to **** during WW2, but Churchill couldnt deter it without giving away we had broken the Enigma code. I also believe that Churchill sank a French Naval fleet during WW2 to prevent Germany capturing those ships, killing over 1000 French soldiers.
    Don't have any difficulty at all imagining one or both of those claims to be true.

  10. #129
    First Team Breakthrough Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibbyCal View Post
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    Not sure anybody said he was in on a plan to kill thousands of citizens and bring down the iconic NY buildings using planes - thats just a generalised outlandish summary of it to make people who question it look a bit silly (something a conspirer would do )

    Most people who i've spoken to about it doubt that he wasn't aware of an attack on US soil. He may have been warned and failed to act, either through being incompetent at his job or he believed an attack would allow a response, 'for the greater good'. Key word being MAY; none of us know what actually happened so can't say one way or the other.

    There are rumours that Britain knew about Coventry getting bombed to **** during WW2, but Churchill couldnt deter it without giving away we had broken the Enigma code. I also believe that Churchill sank a French Naval fleet during WW2 to prevent Germany capturing those ships, killing over 1000 French soldiers.

    It's not about 'what people want to believe'; some people just question the truth they have been told, and quite rightly so.
    I know that in that film about Alan Turing, with Benedict Cumberbatch, there was a scene where one of the team tried to get them to divert a ship, but they wouldn't do it as it would reveal they had cracked the code, so the Coventry scenario is totally plausible.

    Obviously a dramatic film is not evidence of anything, but it wouldn't be that unlikely that it was based on fact. Collateral damage is something that is accepted in warfare.

  11. #130
    Who doesn't like a MIHOP or LIHOP

    those conspiracy guys podcasts are quite entertaining and not always about mental things

  12. #131
    First Team Breakthrough Cataplana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzywuzzy View Post
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    Who doesn't like a MIHOP or LIHOP

    those conspiracy guys podcasts are quite entertaining and not always about mental things
    Rich Planet is a good example. A lot of the stuff is plausible, until you look at the research and certain basic assumptions that the theories are built on.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibbyCal View Post
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    Not sure anybody said he was in on a plan to kill thousands of citizens and bring down the iconic NY buildings using planes - thats just a generalised outlandish summary of it to make people who question it look a bit silly (something a conspirer would do )

    Most people who i've spoken to about it doubt that he wasn't aware of an attack on US soil. He may have been warned and failed to act, either through being incompetent at his job or he believed an attack would allow a response, 'for the greater good'. Key word being MAY; none of us know what actually happened so can't say one way or the other.

    There are rumours that Britain knew about Coventry getting bombed to **** during WW2, but Churchill couldnt deter it without giving away we had broken the Enigma code. I also believe that Churchill sank a French Naval fleet during WW2 to prevent Germany capturing those ships, killing over 1000 French soldiers.

    It's not about 'what people want to believe'; some people just question the truth they have been told, and quite rightly so.
    There is no conspiracy theory over the sinking of the french fleet or the killing of its men...it is known as the attack on Mers El Kébir and is a well documented event.

  14. #133
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    There is no conspiracy theory over the sinking of the french fleet or the killing of its men...it is known as the attack on Mers El Kébir and is a well documented event.
    Indeed.... See here

    https://scottmanning.com/content/chu...t-july-3-1940/

    Churchill got a standing ovation in Parliament for it.



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  15. #134
    Testimonial Due HibbyCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I've only ever read conspiracy theorists saying that. All the credible historians say the opposite.

    Japan didn't declare war on the USA until it attacked Pearl Harbor.

    That was a deliverate tactic used to keep the American military in the dark. They didn't expect it, and they literally didn't see it coming.
    Say what, they don’t believe all of them?

    I didn’t say Japan declared war on the US before Pearl Harbour, I said the US had allegedly been warned 3 days prior that an attack was being prepared and didn’t do anything.

  16. #135
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    If you can't prove your own conspiracy theories, then you have no right to shoot down anybody elses.

    My personal favourite is the conspiracy that a man in a cave in a 3rd world country was able to get the better of a country with the highest defence budget in the world. Surely only complete whack jobs would believe that one eh?

    You are the one putting forth the conspiracy theory that Bush knew about the attacks before he was ‘told’. The onus is on you to prove that, not for others to disprove your theory.

  17. #136
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    You are the one putting forth the conspiracy theory that Bush knew about the attacks before he was ‘told’. The onus is on you to prove that, not for others to disprove your theory.
    He knows that, but now you're down the rabbit hole ...
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  18. #137
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibbyCal View Post
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    Say what, they don’t believe all of them?

    I didn’t say Japan declared war on the US before Pearl Harbour, I said the US had allegedly been warned 3 days prior that an attack was being prepared and didn’t do anything.
    Cool.

    And I said that I've only ever read conspiracy theorists saying that the US had been warned.
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  19. #138
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    You are the one putting forth the conspiracy theory that Bush knew about the attacks before he was ‘told’. The onus is on you to prove that, not for others to disprove your theory.
    So you're not claiming that he didn't know?

  20. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    So you're not claiming that he didn't know?

  21. #140
    Testimonial Due HibbyCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Cool.

    And I said that I've only ever read conspiracy theorists saying that the US had been warned.
    Ah I get you now, sorry misunderstood your post.

    Quick google points to an article in the telegraph regarding a declassified memo warning of an attack 3 days prior.

    Historian does give his opinion which is that he doesn’t believe they acted deliberately to let them attack, they just didn’t think they would actually do it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8932197/Pearl-Harbour-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html

  22. #141
    Whether the US knew about the 9/11 attacks is somewhat irrelevant. Plenty in power shed nothing more than crocodile tears when it happened. The below is from the 'Plan for the New American Century':

    'Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor'.

    That think tank explicitly mentioned things such as regime change in Iraq and included contributions from the likes of Cheney and Rumsfeld. 9/11 probably was an act of international terrorism but in terms of American foreign policy it was a convenient, arguably even a welcome, one.

  23. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Whether the US knew about the 9/11 attacks is somewhat irrelevant. Plenty in power shed nothing more than crocodile tears when it happened. The below is from the 'Plan for the New American Century':

    'Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor'.

    That think tank explicitly mentioned things such as regime change in Iraq and included contributions from the likes of Cheney and Rumsfeld. 9/11 probably was an act of international terrorism but in terms of American foreign policy it was a convenient, arguably even a welcome, one.
    Probably the best summery of 9/11.

    There would be some in power who were glad it happened that may sound unreal to normal people but there are psychopathic people in places of power that don't have the ability to feel empathy for others.

    A few thousand people dead means nothing to these people and they would not loose a night sleep over it.

  24. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Slavers View Post
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    Probably the best summery of 9/11.

    There would be some in power who were glad it happened that may sound unreal to normal people but there are psychopathic people in places of power that don't have the ability to feel empathy for others.

    A few thousand people dead means nothing to these people and they would not loose a night sleep over it.
    I often wonder how much those 3000 deaths even registered with some in positions of influence or power. When you consider the estimated civilian death toll in Iraq in the years following the invasion, the continuing devastation caused by IS and the power vacuum in Iraq and Syria, the spike in terrorism in the Middle East, Afghanistan and the UK Post 2003 and the ongoing fallout from the 'Arab spring' we are getting into a death toll of millions. Remove the fact they are American citizens and you have to ask what makes those 3000 deaths so special? That sounds crasser than I intend but it's a relevant question imo. There were tears shed and 'thoughts and prayers' offered by the usual suspects but ultimately it was just another few deaths in the big business that war is; we are used to people being killed in far flung places, we expect a bit more grief from our politicians when it happens closer to home.

  25. #144
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Funny how international terrorism always seems to strike when, where and by whom it suits the US.

    Hundreds of conflicts they've been involved in over the past century and they have had a convenient excuse for each and every one of them.

  26. #145
    Testimonial Due pontius pilate's Avatar
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    Totally agree that international terrorism is where the usa says it is. The thing that strikes me is that the attacks were carried out by individuals from saudi Arabia carried out on behalf of a saudi national who was hiding in Afghanistan yet the first country invaded was Iraq

  27. #146
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pontius pilate View Post
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    Totally agree that international terrorism is where the usa says it is. The thing that strikes me is that the attacks were carried out by individuals from saudi Arabia carried out on behalf of a saudi national who was hiding in Afghanistan yet the first country invaded was Iraq
    The US invasion of Afghanistan started in 2001. The invasion of Iraq didn't come about until 2003.

    Did you know that over 80% of Americans still believe there were weapons of mass destruction, despite absolutely none being discovered?

  28. #147
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    The US invasion of Afghanistan started in 2001. The invasion of Iraq didn't come about until 2003.

    Did you know that over 80% of Americans still believe there were weapons of mass destruction, despite absolutely none being discovered?
    Your first sentence is correct.

    Your second is incorrect.
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  29. #148
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    I haven't read through the thread, so my apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the U.S. Republican Party (uniquely amongst all the major political parties in the world) 'believes' man made climate change is a hoax and a conspiracy. I have put the word believes in inverted commas because some of them don't really believe it but know full well the science is correct, but their donors fear that a solution will be expensive, so they push the hoax line.

    It's incredible that the president of the United States believes that the issue which is perhaps the greatest existential threat to humanity is a conspiracy theory. What a time we live in.

    We also have our own conspiracy theorist nutters of course. How about immigration into western countries being funded by George Soros to create a one world government?
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  30. #149
    First Team Regular Lester B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    If i'm making it up, then surely it should be straight forward to disprove my point. But you know you can't. The weight of evidence is firmly on my side.

    You know full well which post i'm referring to. But no doubt you'll try and claim that it's not a mental illness or some other BS to worm your way out of it, so i'm not going to waste my time on it any futher.

    It's not a mental illness. It was never suggested you had one by anyone. I'm not certain what was implied but it's becoming clearer

    It's clearly been suggested to you before, and in the world outside this message board, hence why you are so dismissive. Simple denial.

    It would explain a lot. Not excuse but explain it at least.

    And if you really want to talk weight of evidence, the signs are all there.

    I expect this will be answered dismissively with sarasm or ignored but you do need help and I genuinely hope you get it at some point.

    But it doesn't excuse you

  31. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    I haven't read through the thread, so my apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the U.S. Republican Party (uniquely amongst all the major political parties in the world) 'believes' man made climate change is a hoax and a conspiracy. I have put the word believes in inverted commas because some of them don't really believe it but know full well the science is correct, but their donors fear that a solution will be expensive, so they push the hoax line.

    It's incredible that the president of the United States believes that the issue which is perhaps the greatest existential threat to humanity is a conspiracy theory. What a time we live in.

    We also have our own conspiracy theorist nutters of course. How about immigration into western countries being funded by George Soros to create a one world government?
    I saw one that George Soros is Madeleine McCanns father (they carry the same defect in the eye - coloboma.)

    Another one that it was the Podesta brothers that kidnapped her. This based on two efit pictures (what the Kooks ignored, that they were two edits of the same person.)

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