hibs.net Messageboard

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 236
  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibeesmad View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree.

    If a couple from Leith had left their young twins and 3 year old daughter alone in their home with the door unlocked whilst they went for a meal and drinks with friends then they would no doubt be charged.
    I agree to an extent. As I said above I find it quite fascinating the way their decision, which played a part in starting the whole chain of events, is effectively whitewashed in the mainstream narrative. I was baffled by their decision before I had a child and now I have a daughter close to the same age Madeleine was at the time I find it even more baffling.

    However the parents have have paid a huge price for that decision, whether it was a one off or habitual. I don't really see what sentence could be passed on them that would be worse than what they have already suffered. They have to live with the consequences of their judgement for the rest of their lives. Equally I'm not sure if there is a public interest to be served in prosecuting them. What would it achieve beyond potentially seeing 2 other children removed from their parents care?

    The parents made a mistake that I find inexplicable but ultimately whoever took Madeleine is responsible for what happened to her. I think in the absence of any clarity on what happened the need to blame someone has landed at the parents door in some peoples eyes. If there is an acceptance they had nothing to do with the 'abduction' and whatever followed then I think there needs to be an acknowledgement that they made a poor decision, presented an opportunity for someone to potentially harm their daughter but someone else is ultimately responsible for the final outcome.
    PM Awards General Poster of The Year 2015, 2016, 2017. Probably robbed in other years


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #32
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Age
    41
    Posts
    38,271
    Blog Entries
    1
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: franck sauzee
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree to an extent. As I said above I find it quite fascinating the way their decision, which played a part in starting the whole chain of events, is effectively whitewashed in the mainstream narrative. I was baffled by their decision before I had a child and now I have a daughter close to the same age Madeleine was at the time I find it even more baffling.

    However the parents have have paid a huge price for that decision, whether it was a one off or habitual. I don't really see what sentence could be passed on them that would be worse than what they have already suffered. They have to live with the consequences of their judgement for the rest of their lives. Equally I'm not sure if there is a public interest to be served in prosecuting them. What would it achieve beyond potentially seeing 2 other children removed from their parents care?

    The parents made a mistake that I find inexplicable but ultimately whoever took Madeleine is responsible for what happened to her. I think in the absence of any clarity on what happened the need to blame someone has landed at the parents door in some peoples eyes. If there is an acceptance they had nothing to do with the 'abduction' and whatever followed then I think there needs to be an acknowledgement that they made a poor decision, presented an opportunity for someone to potentially harm their daughter but someone else is ultimately responsible for the final outcome.
    I think what they did was far, far more commonplace than you'd think nowadays. In many ways, Madeleine McCann's disappearance was a game-changer in how folk viewed leaving their kids.

    The nanny service that was available was essentially the same as what the parents were doing - regular, routine checks on the kids rather than an adult sitting in with them.

    I remember pre-Madeleine McCann having a weekend with the wife and my son, who at that time was a baby, at the Roxburghe hotel (which IIRC is in the Borders), I might have the hotel wrong but it's not that relevant anyway.

    We were staying in an outer building adjacent to the hotel, or off the main hotel at least, and because Josh was such a nightmare for sleeping we couldn't get him settled (our plan was to take him with us in his pram, and eat while he slept in the dining room beside us).

    As he was awake, we asked the receptionist if it was ok to order our meal as room service - we didn't want Josh crying while folk were eating their meals. The receptionist offered to check in on him every now and again to let us go in for the meal. We politely refused and took the meal to the room, but it was clearly not frowned upon to use a service like that.

    In which case, you can see why a group of adults who were happy to take turns to effectively perform the nanny service wouldn't think it was a big deal, and while it's a big "how could you?!" nowadays, back then I think loads of folk would have done it - especially somewhere like Luz.

    Re the argument that they weren't prosecuted because of their class or wealth, I can't remember seeing a ton of cases were poor folk have been prosecuted for it, either so I think it's a bit of a straw man argument for me.

    I don't think they murdered her either, I think the implications and how many people would need to have been involved in covering it up makes that the most unlikely scenario. There's also the fact that they both had professions that were dedicated to saving lives, and I know you could say the same about Harold Shipman, but I think in general that's a good indicator that they care enough about human life to not become murderers.

  4. #33
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Posts
    10,910
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think what they did was far, far more commonplace than you'd think nowadays. In many ways, Madeleine McCann's disappearance was a game-changer in how folk viewed leaving their kids.

    The nanny service that was available was essentially the same as what the parents were doing - regular, routine checks on the kids rather than an adult sitting in with them.

    I remember pre-Madeleine McCann having a weekend with the wife and my son, who at that time was a baby, at the Roxburghe hotel (which IIRC is in the Borders), I might have the hotel wrong but it's not that relevant anyway.

    We were staying in an outer building adjacent to the hotel, or off the main hotel at least, and because Josh was such a nightmare for sleeping we couldn't get him settled (our plan was to take him with us in his pram, and eat while he slept in the dining room beside us).

    As he was awake, we asked the receptionist if it was ok to order our meal as room service - we didn't want Josh crying while folk were eating their meals. The receptionist offered to check in on him every now and again to let us go in for the meal. We politely refused and took the meal to the room, but it was clearly not frowned upon to use a service like that.

    In which case, you can see why a group of adults who were happy to take turns to effectively perform the nanny service wouldn't think it was a big deal, and while it's a big "how could you?!" nowadays, back then I think loads of folk would have done it - especially somewhere like Luz.

    Re the argument that they weren't prosecuted because of their class or wealth, I can't remember seeing a ton of cases were poor folk have been prosecuted for it, either so I think it's a bit of a straw man argument for me.

    I don't think they murdered her either, I think the implications and how many people would need to have been involved in covering it up makes that the most unlikely scenario. There's also the fact that they both had professions that were dedicated to saving lives, and I know you could say the same about Harold Shipman, but I think in general that's a good indicator that they care enough about human life to not become murderers.
    Great post.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Bellevue
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,361
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think what they did was far, far more commonplace than you'd think nowadays. In many ways, Madeleine McCann's disappearance was a game-changer in how folk viewed leaving their kids.

    The nanny service that was available was essentially the same as what the parents were doing - regular, routine checks on the kids rather than an adult sitting in with them.

    I remember pre-Madeleine McCann having a weekend with the wife and my son, who at that time was a baby, at the Roxburghe hotel (which IIRC is in the Borders), I might have the hotel wrong but it's not that relevant anyway.

    We were staying in an outer building adjacent to the hotel, or off the main hotel at least, and because Josh was such a nightmare for sleeping we couldn't get him settled (our plan was to take him with us in his pram, and eat while he slept in the dining room beside us).

    As he was awake, we asked the receptionist if it was ok to order our meal as room service - we didn't want Josh crying while folk were eating their meals. The receptionist offered to check in on him every now and again to let us go in for the meal. We politely refused and took the meal to the room, but it was clearly not frowned upon to use a service like that.

    In which case, you can see why a group of adults who were happy to take turns to effectively perform the nanny service wouldn't think it was a big deal, and while it's a big "how could you?!" nowadays, back then I think loads of folk would have done it - especially somewhere like Luz.

    Re the argument that they weren't prosecuted because of their class or wealth, I can't remember seeing a ton of cases were poor folk have been prosecuted for it, either so I think it's a bit of a straw man argument for me.

    I don't think they murdered her either, I think the implications and how many people would need to have been involved in covering it up makes that the most unlikely scenario. There's also the fact that they both had professions that were dedicated to saving lives, and I know you could say the same about Harold Shipman, but I think in general that's a good indicator that they care enough about human life to not become murderers.
    Yep. My parents would go away with other couples twice a year. There would be me and two other kids (brothers) all around the same age in the party. We would eat earlier, go to one of the rooms to play/sleep whilst the parents ate and drank. My parents and the parents of the other two would periodically come up to check on us.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    27
    Posts
    9,470
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think what they did was far, far more commonplace than you'd think nowadays. In many ways, Madeleine McCann's disappearance was a game-changer in how folk viewed leaving their kids.

    The nanny service that was available was essentially the same as what the parents were doing - regular, routine checks on the kids rather than an adult sitting in with them.

    I remember pre-Madeleine McCann having a weekend with the wife and my son, who at that time was a baby, at the Roxburghe hotel (which IIRC is in the Borders), I might have the hotel wrong but it's not that relevant anyway.

    We were staying in an outer building adjacent to the hotel, or off the main hotel at least, and because Josh was such a nightmare for sleeping we couldn't get him settled (our plan was to take him with us in his pram, and eat while he slept in the dining room beside us).

    As he was awake, we asked the receptionist if it was ok to order our meal as room service - we didn't want Josh crying while folk were eating their meals. The receptionist offered to check in on him every now and again to let us go in for the meal. We politely refused and took the meal to the room, but it was clearly not frowned upon to use a service like that.

    In which case, you can see why a group of adults who were happy to take turns to effectively perform the nanny service wouldn't think it was a big deal, and while it's a big "how could you?!" nowadays, back then I think loads of folk would have done it - especially somewhere like Luz.

    Re the argument that they weren't prosecuted because of their class or wealth, I can't remember seeing a ton of cases were poor folk have been prosecuted for it, either so I think it's a bit of a straw man argument for me.

    I don't think they murdered her either, I think the implications and how many people would need to have been involved in covering it up makes that the most unlikely scenario. There's also the fact that they both had professions that were dedicated to saving lives, and I know you could say the same about Harold Shipman, but I think in general that's a good indicator that they care enough about human life to not become murderers.
    Sums up what I haven't been able to put so succinctly since watching the documentary.
    Mon the Hibs.

  7. #36
    Coaching Staff 21.05.2016's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    8,854
    Such a sad story, someone, some where out there knows what happened to that little girl.

    I've gone back and forward on the whole "were the parents involved in some way" debate. At very minimum they are guilty of neglegance and very irresponsible parenting by leaving 3 very young children alone in the apartment. I just can't see any motive as to WHY they would want to harm her or even if she died by an accident, why they would try to cover it up. I get that if your child had an accident and died your first reaction would be complete and utter panic and despair but these two are smart people, surely they would think to call the ambulance/police/apartment staff etc.

    Shudder to think the possibility of her being taken by some sick peadophile ring. Sickening.

  8. #37
    I have always felt Madeline McCann died that afternoon or early evening and the parents hid the body and then disposed of it the next day or so probably in the sea and then faked the 'bogeyman did it' that evening.

    The most likely cause of death was an accidental drug overdose related to her sleeping problems administered by her medical parents.

    Portuguese Police seemed to have followed a similar line of questioning but obviously fell short of evidence.
    Last edited by The Baldmans Comb; 28-03-2019 at 12:16 PM.

  9. #38
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Spinning a Yarn
    Posts
    13,579
    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have always felt Madeline McCann died that afternoon or early evening and the parents hid the body and then disposed of it probably in the sea and then faked the 'bogeyman did it' that evening.

    The most likely cause of death was an accidental drug overdose related to her sleeping problems administered by her medical parents.

    Portuguese Police seemed to have followed a similar line of questioning but obviously fell short of evidence.
    I posted above about the parallels with The Cry. The writer denies it is based on the McCann case.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5473364/
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  10. #39
    Coaching Staff Steve-O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Age
    37
    Posts
    20,250
    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have always felt Madeline McCann died that afternoon or early evening and the parents hid the body and then disposed of it the next day or so probably in the sea and then faked the 'bogeyman did it' that evening.

    The most likely cause of death was an accidental drug overdose related to her sleeping problems administered by her medical parents.

    Portuguese Police seemed to have followed a similar line of questioning but obviously fell short of evidence.
    “Fell short” of evidence because there was none.

    I’ve watched 5 episodes of the show and it seems clear they didn’t do this.

  11. #40
    Administrator hibee_girl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Lochend, Edinburgh
    Age
    33
    Posts
    16,160
    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have always felt Madeline McCann died that afternoon or early evening and the parents hid the body and then disposed of it the next day or so probably in the sea and then faked the 'bogeyman did it' that evening.

    The most likely cause of death was an accidental drug overdose related to her sleeping problems administered by her medical parents.

    Portuguese Police seemed to have followed a similar line of questioning but obviously fell short of evidence.
    As a regular visitor to Luz I honestly don’t see how they could have gotten her body into the sea without someone seeing them, there’s always people milling about no matter what time of day/night it is.

    Personally I dont think they did anything wrong other than leaving her alone in the first place.

  12. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_girl View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As a regular visitor to Luz I honestly don’t see how they could have gotten her body into the sea without someone seeing them, there’s always people milling about no matter what time of day/night it is.

    Personally I dont think they did anything wrong other than leaving her alone in the first place.
    I think one of the parents put the body in the hired car and drove up the coast and dumped it well away from Luz.

    That would be the "sensible" but horrible thing to do. Plenty opportunity and you only need an hour or two.

    Another theory not explored is why not drive inland and bury the body there.

    There is no evidence whatsoever at all to say "The Bogeyman dun it" hence statistically you have to look at the parents as number 1 suspects.
    Last edited by The Baldmans Comb; 29-03-2019 at 12:57 PM.

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think one of the parents put the body in the hired car and drove up the coast and dumped it well away from Luz.

    That would be the "sensible" but horrible thing to do. Plenty opportunity and you only need an hour or two.

    Another theory not explored is why not drive inland and bury the body there.

    There is no evidence whatsoever at all to say "The Bogeyman dun it" hence statistically you have to look at the parents as number 1 suspects.
    I agree with that from a what-should-the-police-have-done pov. But they couldn't prove that either - so we have to assume they're innocent. My gut feel (fwiw, ie. nowt) is they wouldn't have been able to keep up the level of pretence, continually putting themselves in the public eye when they didn't have to, if they were guilty.

  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree with that from a what-should-the-police-have-done pov. But they couldn't prove that either - so we have to assume they're innocent. My gut feel (fwiw, ie. nowt) is they wouldn't have been able to keep up the level of pretence, continually putting themselves in the public eye when they didn't have to, if they were guilty.
    I would agree with you that without question they are totally innocent until proven guilty and there is no question whatsoever of that.

    However we are only talking maybe's and possibities and probabilities.

    My conclusion based on TV, Books, newspaper and public records and statistical analysis is that the parents rank a long way ahead of a unknown,unnamed mythical bogeyman.

  15. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would agree with you that without question they are totally innocent until proven guilty and there is no question whatsoever of that.

    However we are only talking maybe's and possibities and probabilities.

    My conclusion based on TV, Books, newspaper and public records and statistical analysis is that the parents rank a long way ahead of a unknown,unnamed mythical bogeyman.
    In general terms, I agree.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    27
    Posts
    9,470
    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would agree with you that without question they are totally innocent until proven guilty and there is no question whatsoever of that.

    However we are only talking maybe's and possibities and probabilities.

    My conclusion based on TV, Books, newspaper and public records and statistical analysis is that the parents rank a long way ahead of a unknown,unnamed mythical bogeyman.
    I'm not sure what statistical analysis you've done/seen, but I can't say I agree.

    I fail to see how, or why, they would have been able to hide the body and later dispose of the body (while in the meantime getting as much police and media attention on them as possible). It's then been an elongated process of keeping themselves in the public eye ever since.

    For me the most logical conclusion is someone took her, dead or alive, and moved to get her away/out the country quicker than the police were able to mobilise themselves. If it was premeditated to take her/someone then having an escape vehicle and safe hide away seems likely.
    Mon the Hibs.

  17. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not sure what statistical analysis you've done/seen, but I can't say I agree.

    I fail to see how, or why, they would have been able to hide the body and later dispose of the body (while in the meantime getting as much police and media attention on them as possible). It's then been an elongated process of keeping themselves in the public eye ever since.

    For me the most logical conclusion is someone took her, dead or alive, and moved to get her away/out the country quicker than the police were able to mobilise themselves. If it was premeditated to take her/someone then having an escape vehicle and safe hide away seems likely.
    I presumed that meant that in the vast majority of child murders, it turns out to have been a family member rather than a random maniac. I'm sure that's true.

  18. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I presumed that meant that in the vast majority of child murders, it turns out to have been a family member rather than a random maniac. I'm sure that's true.
    That's exactly where I am coming from as there were a couple of countries which might have been Holland and Australia(really can't remember) began logging stats on who had been convictred for child abductions and murders

    Statistically they worked out that 83% my guess but something like that of all serious crimes against children were done by someone known to the child.

    The other 17% again my guess but something like that were committed by a complete stranger.

    Hence without knowing any of the facts surrounding this case and stripping away all the emotion then if you believe in statistical patterns then there is a 17% chance a Bogeyman killed the wee girl and 83% chance it was close family member, a friend of the family or someone known to the child such as a nanny or hotel worker.

    Its probably a good starting point for future sorry cases and investigations as well as personality profiles of any suspects and whether they were evasive or acted suspiciously during questioning.

    Whoever it was who killed the tragic girl got rid of the body and virtually all the evidence which was the true "magnificence" of their horrendus crime.
    Last edited by The Baldmans Comb; 29-03-2019 at 04:49 PM.

  19. #48
    I've watched the full programme now and read various different stories regarding this case, what amazes me is the fact they would not answer all the questions asked by the police, when you fail to do that it's only going to make people more suspicious of you. The dogs picking up the blood scent and body scent was very strange, something clearly happened in that room and car. They also picked up a scent on Kate's clothing, again why was there blood on her clothing, I dont think they killed her but why did they think it was ok to leave their kids and why have they never been pulled up for child neglect

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    West Auckland, NZ
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,918
    Gamer IDs

    Wii Code: 0083-4364-6418-4974
    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think one of the parents put the body in the hired car and drove up the coast and dumped it well away from Luz.

    That would be the "sensible" but horrible thing to do. Plenty opportunity and you only need an hour or two.

    Another theory not explored is why not drive inland and bury the body there.

    There is no evidence whatsoever at all to say "The Bogeyman dun it" hence statistically you have to look at the parents as number 1 suspects.
    They hired the car 2-3 weeks after her disappearance

    Where did they keep the body in the meantime?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #50
    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Bellevue
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,361
    Quote Originally Posted by Callum_62 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    They hired the car 2-3 weeks after her disappearance

    Where did they keep the body in the meantime?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    In the fridge that other lot kept the kid in!

  22. #51
    Wasn’t going to watch this but think I will now. My thoughts have been that the parents has something to do with it other than leaving them home alone will see if changes anything.

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    27
    Posts
    9,470
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I presumed that meant that in the vast majority of child murders, it turns out to have been a family member rather than a random maniac. I'm sure that's true.
    That makes more sense, and I can see that being likely just through the time spent with parents when a child. But that would assume this was definitely a murder case than, rather than an abduction (followed by a murder or otherwise); which would change the "statistics" for this case.

    I'd disagree that it should be the default position to assume it was the parents (not that you suggested it), but that line of enquiry was taken and led to nothing.

    I just can't see how, with all the police and media attention they had around them 24/7 from so early they could have got away with hiding the body for a couple of weeks and then nipping off to dispose of it. It's not like they waltzes through a sea of reporters saying "excuse me, I'm off out to the middle of the Atlantic with this suitcase - nothing to see here!".

    Being able to keep up the facade for 12 years without anything coming out would seem hard work too. Especially with the amount of attention they've had. They're doctors not criminal masterminds.
    Mon the Hibs.

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,765
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    They're doctors not criminal masterminds.
    Maybe that's how they got away with it (if anything) because society tends to put certain people on a pedestal depending on their vocation.
    The media reaction to the crimes of (Dr) Harold Shipman & Beverley Allitt seemed disproportionate to other serial killers because of their medical background.
    If only Karen Matthews worked for the NHS,,,

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    27
    Posts
    9,470
    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Maybe that's how they got away with it (if anything) because society tends to put certain people on a pedestal depending on their vocation.
    The media reaction to the crimes of (Dr) Harold Shipman & Beverley Allitt seemed disproportionate to other serial killers because of their medical background.
    If only Karen Matthews worked for the NHS,,,
    I'm not sure that makes any sense.

    I don't know what parallels, or otherwise, you're trying to draw between these cases. You've highlighted a doctor who got found guilty anyway, and a woman who got similar media attention over her missing girl (despite not being put on the pedestal you claim society put certain people on) before they found out she was lying the whole time.

    If anything, I think their social status of the McCann's has made some people more keen to lay the blame on them.

    Whatever view the media have on them wouldn't really matter. But regardless of their status, the media did still turn on them and falsely accuse them of murdering their child.
    Mon the Hibs.

  26. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not sure that makes any sense.

    I don't know what parallels, or otherwise, you're trying to draw between these cases. You've highlighted a doctor who got found guilty anyway, and a woman who got similar media attention over her missing girl (despite not being put on the pedestal you claim society put certain people on) before they found out she was lying the whole time.

    If anything, I think their social status of the McCann's has made some people more keen to lay the blame on them.

    Whatever view the media have on them wouldn't really matter. But regardless of their status, the media did still turn on them and falsely accuse them of murdering their child.
    The police made them suspects so of course the media were going to run with the story

  27. #56
    First Team Breakthrough Cataplana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Skating on thin ice.
    Posts
    128
    Hi guys, I have been reading this thread with interest. First of all, cards on the table, I have spent an unhealthy amount of time investigating what is known about Maddie's disappearance.

    Rather than tell you where to look for further information, can I just say "Google is your friend". There are a myriad of sites out there carrying useful information, and quite a few bat **** crazy theories, which have to be read to be believed.

    I have reached my own conclusions, or at least formed my own suspicions about what went on. The first thing I would like to say is, I notice that there is an acceptance that the child was abducted; I'd ask you to consider the fact that there is little to support an abduction, and much to suggest that this was staged by the McCanns.

    This is based on the book, "The Truth of the Lie" (A Verdade da Mentira), by the cop who was responsible for investigating the claims, and who decided that the McCanns had further questions to answer. This book, based on the actual files of the Policial Judicial (PJ) is an objective analysis of what is known.

    It is worth noting that the McCanns were so annoyed about this book, that they sued the man through every court in Portugal, until the Supreme Court ruled in his favour. The ruling pointed out that, at no point were the McCanns told they were no longer suspects, and that the author (Goncalo Amaral) was not in breach of anything by forming the conclusions he had.

    The book cannot be purchased in the UK, but online versions, in English, are available. In the interests of balance, Kate McCann has her own account of what happened. Needless to say both books tell very different stories.

    For me, the thing that turned me from wanting to believe in the abduction was the alerts of the two sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela. One is trained to alert to the smell of death (cadavarine) and the other to the scent of blood. They alerted to these scents in the McCann's apartment at the Ocean Club, in the McCann's villa that they went to after leaving the Ocean Club, and in their hire car - which was not rented until 25 days after Maddie disappeared.

    This was enough to convince Amaral that there were grounds for suspecting the McCanns, and he duly brought them in for questioning. This questioning was never completed satisfactorily. Why was that? Plenty theories out there.

    Then there is the DNA evidence, which the Netflix programme is at pains to state is unreliable. Certainly 16, out of 20 markers is not enough for a 100% link to Maddie, but in some countries, it would mean the parents were in court. It is certainly possible that, in the future, that DNA will be analysed more accurately, and may either exclude Maddie's presence in that hire car, or confirm it.

    In conclusion, I'd like you to be open minded about the case. There are basically two theories: abduction by persons unknown; death in the apartment, covered up by the parents. There is no proof that either thing happened, there is a strong suspicion in my mind that leads me to support one theory over another.

    This is about justice for Madeleine McCann, whether she was abducted and is still alive, or has since died, or who died in 5A, she is at the centre of this whole thing. Personally, I find some of the McCanns utterings over the years to be different from what I would expect, often centring on them rather than the child - that does not mean anything.

    For me, if someone can do a reliable advanced DNA test which says yea or nay, then it is over in my mind. Whilst that doubt remains, I find it hard to believe she was abducted. Bear in mind that David Gilroy was convicted of the death of Suzanne Pilley, without any body being found, the only real evidence of death was the scent of cadavarine in his boot.

    Thanks for taking the time to listen, and I wish you well in your discussion. I spend far too much time reading about it, so that's the last you'll hear from me now.

    Tchau e Obrigado.

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member wpj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    london
    Age
    53
    Posts
    2,463
    Interesting, can I ask you why you "have spent an unhealthy amount of time investigating what is known about Maddie's disappearance"?

  29. #58
    First Team Breakthrough Cataplana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Skating on thin ice.
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by wpj View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting, can I ask you why you "have spent an unhealthy amount of time investigating what is known about Maddie's disappearance"?
    I spend a lot of time in Portugal, I became really interested in the case when I found out about the libel action against the detective. I wanted more answers, once I started looking it raised more questions.

    This isn't about me though, it's about the information out there, and I have come on here to point people in the direction of more reliable information than what is printed by the British media.

    I think I've spent an unhealthy amount of time, because really I've found myself going round in circles with no conclusion to the case in sight.

    It's not about me though.
    Last edited by Cataplana; 02-04-2019 at 06:57 PM.

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    57
    Posts
    28,968
    I just can’t believe that the mum and dad would do something to harm their children
    They made a big big mistake by leaving them in the room unsupervised, but for me that was the biggest crime they committed
    I just can’t comprehend they would harm their beautiful little girl

  31. #60
    @hibs.net private member wpj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    london
    Age
    53
    Posts
    2,463
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataplana View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I spend a lot of time in Portugal, I became really interested in the case when I found out about the libel action against the detective. I wanted more answers, once I started looking it raised more questions.

    This isn't about me though, it's about the information out there, and I have come on here to point people in the direction of more reliable information than what is printed by the British media.

    I think I've spent an unhealthy amount of time, because really I've found myself going round in circles with no conclusion to the case in sight.

    It's not about me though.
    Appreciate the reply. I havent really looked in any great detail myself. It's tragic no matter what occurred.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved