Loyalty / Attendance Points

[Duncan Smith]

Hi folks,

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LoyaltyAttendancePoints

I’ve created this survey to gauge supporters opinion on the reintroduction of Loyalty / Attendance Points.

Please share this on any Hibernian Facebook / Twitter / Forums that you’re a member of.

I am aware that this topic has already been raised and it was a NO from the Board.

However if it can be shown that there is a strong appetite backed in numbers for the reintroduction of the points then we have to open proper discussion with the the club.

As a candidate for this years Supporter Representative, I would intend to use these results as a starter to open the discussions with the board should I be elected to represent you.

My reason for creating the survey is that I have had many conversation with supporters recently in person and on social media advocating a return.

Supporters points raised so far :

* Current System of purchasing Away Season Ticket (AST) does not work for everyone, although a ticket has been purchased for every away match, supporters are not always able to make the match leaving the supporter out of pocket

*Away Season Tickets (AST) wont allow you to sit with friends or family who pay at the gate at away matches where seating is allocated.

*Supporters who don’t have an AST but regularly go to every away match are frustrated at the current online / telephone lottery system to purchase Cat A away tickets

*Supporters who have only had a ticket for one season may be disadvantaged when trying to purchase away tickets should the points system be introduced.

*With low attendances at Elgin, Raith and Celtic. Would more supporters have attended the match knowing they would receive additional Loyalty / Attendance Points

Please add in any more constructive points for or against the reintroduction.

[Michael]

Are loyalty points as contentious at other clubs? Can't we just copy someone else who has happy fans?

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Are loyalty points as contentious at other clubs? Can't we just copy someone else who has happy fans?

Hearts'.

Literally copy it word for word and we are sorted.

Anybody who objects to it can bolt, quite frankly, it is the definition of fairness.

[Malthibby]

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Hearts'.

Literally copy it word for word and we are sorted.

Anybody who objects to it can bolt, quite frankly, it is the definition of fairness.

If Hearts' is the answer, the question's wrong

[Hibeesmad]

Cardiff have a system of selling away tickets firstly to supporters who are season ticket holders and went to a minimum of 5 away games the previous season. Even something as simple as this would make sure those who follow the club to almost every away match without an away season ticket have an advantage of getting a ticket for the games in demand.

[Hermit Crab]

Done, I want them back, even as an AST holder. Its the fairest way. Why should someone who's attended 80-90% of away matches but cant justify an away season ticket due to games missed possibly lose out to someone who fancies Hearts away and its their first away game of the season?

#bringthemback

[Hermit Crab]

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Cardiff have a system of selling away tickets firstly to supporters who are season ticket holders and went to a minimum of 5 away games the previous season. Even something as simple as this would make sure those who follow the club to almost every away match without an away season ticket have an advantage of getting a ticket for the games in demand.

Too hard to control as most aways for us are PATG, except Heaets, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen.

[0762]

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Done, I want them back, even as an AST holder. Its the fairest way. Why should someone who's attended 80-90% of away matches but cant justify an away season ticket due to games missed possibly lose out to someone who fancies Hearts away and its their first away game of the season?

#bringthemback

Oh so correct Hermit Crab

[Hibeesmad]

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Too hard to control as most aways for us are PATG, except Heaets, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen.

Surely it could be controlled the same way points gathered for loyalty points would be controlled, fans would have to buy tickets directly from the club to receive points.

[greenlad]

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Too hard to control as most aways for us are PATG, except Hearts, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen.

Been at every away match this season except Rangers and Aberdeen and I've had a ticket for each one. Unless you mean there's been a PATG option. But if folk want the points/preference they know they'd need to buy the tickets through Hibs in advance.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Surely it could be controlled the same way points gathered for loyalty points would be controlled, fans would have to buy tickets directly from the club to receive points.

not just directed at yourself but out of curiosity, where would walk-up fans come in to the loyalty points equation, a walk-up that goes to (especially)a fair few home games and some away games, what would happen at Semi-final/Final games, would they have the same chance of getting a ticket as say a fan that has not been to ANY home games, this system cannot be called 'loyalty points' whilst fans 'half loyal' have the same chance of a ticket as the 'one game a season' fan, regular walk-ups MUST surely be included in any 'loyalty points' scheme.

[Kojock]

Points should only be awarded for match attendance not for buying a pie etc

[Carheenlea]

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not just directed at yourself but out of curiosity, where would walk-up fans come in to the loyalty points equation, a walk-up that goes to (especially)a fair few home games and some away games, what would happen at Semi-final/Final games, would they have the same chance of getting a ticket as say a fan that has not been to ANY home games, this system cannot be called 'loyalty points' whilst fans 'half loyal' have the same chance of a ticket as the 'one game a season' fan, regular walk-ups MUST surely be included in any 'loyalty points' scheme.

It was the points system that changed my habit from paying at the gate at away games to purchasing a ticket in advance. Would always have known within a week if it was a game I was able to go to, so it wasn’t really a major upheaval.

[neil7908]

Completed. It's a total no brainier and utterly bizarre that we aren't doing this.

[Hiber-nation]

Done. Bring them back!

[Billy Whizz]

Done

[Scouse Hibee]

Done

[Keith_M]

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not just directed at yourself but out of curiosity, where would walk-up fans come in to the loyalty points equation, a walk-up that goes to (especially)a fair few home games and some away games, what would happen at Semi-final/Final games, would they have the same chance of getting a ticket as say a fan that has not been to ANY home games, this system cannot be called 'loyalty points' whilst fans 'half loyal' have the same chance of a ticket as the 'one game a season' fan, regular walk-ups MUST surely be included in any 'loyalty points' scheme.

I'm in favour of re-introducing Loyalty Points but that's a fair question and any new system would have to find an answer.

[Diclonius]

Already voted for you Duncan knowing full well you're trying to make an issue of this - keep up the good work.

[Keith_M]

Done

[green day]

I already know the answer to this but perhaps - for balance - Duncan should explain what happened with the previous LP system and why it was dumped?

[DetroitHibs]

This is the best time to hit LD with the loyalty scheme points. She knows season ticket sales will be down and might give in on the subject, instead of digging her heels in.

[K.Marx]

As someone who benefits from the tynecastle free for all, I still vote for loyalty points to be reintroduced. By far the fairest system (if done properly)

[marinello59]

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This is the best time to hit LD with the loyalty scheme points. She knows season ticket sales will be down and might give in on the subject, instead of digging her heels in.

If demand has fallen.... and it has...then there is less need for a loyalty points scheme.

[DetroitHibs]

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If demand has fallen.... and it has...then there is less need for a loyalty points scheme.

It would be nice to have that cemented in for the future though. The diehard fans that go week in week out should be rewarded over other fans that pick and choose.

[green with envy]

In favour and survey completed.

[oneone73]

Done. In favour, even though I haven't managed an away game so far this season.

[Hibbyradge]

What were the reasons behind the decision to stop the previous scheme?

[green day]

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What were the reasons behind the decision to stop the previous scheme?

I mentioned this upthread - it is important - here is the official text:

By: Hibernian Media on 01 Mar, 2016 16:10

A sub-group of the Working Together forum met at Easter Road on Monday night to review the loyalty points scheme which has been the subject of much discussion in recent months. The group included Leeann Dempster, board members Frank Dougan and Amit Moudgil alongside a number of fans, some of whom are involved in supporters clubs and some who are not. Hibernian Supporters Limited (HSL) were also represented and Colin Millar, Communications Manager, and Greig Mailer, Head of Marketing & Commercial Operations, made up the group.

The aims of the loyalty points scheme were outlined:
- To help grow the fanbase
- To encourage fans to attend more matches
- To reward fans who attend the most matches
- To reduce queuing times for the busiest away matches
- To encourage more fans to register and purchase tickets online
- To help ensure that the club database is kept up to date and accurate.

A number of discussion points and issues were raised and debated:
- The number of waves of sales based on the number of loyalty points should be reviewed, the pros and cons of more/less waves was debated.
- Fans who attend all games, home and away, should have priority access to tickets.
- Issues relating to disabled fans to ensure they are able to purchase tickets with their carers where needed.
- The decision to award HSL members with loyalty points was debated, as was the concept of rewarding fans for other commitments, for example the purchase of shares or merchandise. Linked to this was the idea that the club could operate a separate system of ‘reward’ points that is not linked to attendance at matches.
- The current structure, where points are accumulated on a three-year rolling basis, was discussed. There was mixed views as to whether this was fair or if this reinforces the position of the fans with the most points at the top of the scale.
- While many fans have no issues in managing their online accounts, the number of enquiries which the club receives suggests that some supporters have difficulties – the suggestion was raised as to whether the scheme could be simplified.
- The need to ensure that season ticket holders benefit from whatever structure is put in place.
- The use of the term ‘loyalty points’ was questioned in that it can be seen to be provocative/divisive to some fans.
- Complaints had been received that the scheme has unintentionally devalued the season ticket offering.
- It was noted that only three matches, since the introduction of the scheme, had not went to public sale – two matches at Ibrox against Rangers and one match against Hearts at Tynecastle.
- That some fans were feeling excluded from the scheme if they could not afford to attend every match or were only able to attend some matches due to other commitments.
- The ticket office faces a growing amount of pressure and enquires relating to the scheme which has taken up a considerable amount of administrative resource.

The achievements of the scheme to date were also noted:
- Despite the above issues, many fans have welcomed the introduction which had been called for by fan groups for a number of years – meaning tickets can be allocated on a fairer basis.
- Over 5,000 additional supporter records are now active on the club database.
- More and more fans are purchasing tickets online.
- HSL membership grew noticeably following the loyalty points announcement – helping to generate additional investment into the club.

Some solutions were floated but it was agreed that the club reflects on the session and brings forward recommendations and options for review at the next meeting which addressed the issues that have been raised.
The date of the next meeting was set to be held on Monday 21 March at Easter Road.

[green day]

.........and the result

As you may know, the Club has been reviewing the Loyalty Points system for a number of months.
This has taken a little longer than we would have liked as a result of other issues that we had to prioritise, but we needed to take enough time to review and consider a range of opinion from supporters, both those in the working group on loyalty points and others who offered their feedback following our request in March. All of the opinions and feedback have been well rehearsed and debated from each perspective - and with that I would like to thank all supporters who have contributed to the discussion and been involved in our Working Together forums. It now requires a decision.
The Club has to make decisions we believe in, but also to reflect that sometimes we get it wrong or that our decisions and actions have unexpected consequences.
I think the decision to create a loyalty points scheme was well intended, but it is one that has failed on more levels than it’s been successful on. But we also need to recognise that supporters who travel to away matches play a vital role in supporting the team, and that getting access to away tickets can be stressful for those who travel week in week out.
We’ve investigated whether it is possible to achieve the desired outcomes which for me are as straightforward as this:
- eliminate the negativity around loyalty points while building the value of season tickets
- being consistent and supportive of those who want to travel
I believe we have come up with a solution that will do both, so it is my decision now to stop the loyalty points programme and to make available to those who may want it an ‘Away Season Ticket’ which would guarantee a ticket to those who travel week in, week out, and who want to commit to every away league game.
We will limit the number of these available based on the historic number of fans who travel to every away match whilst maintaining the availability of away tickets for those home season ticket holders who may also want to travel.
The detail needs to be finalised but, effectively, if you were to sign up for an ‘Away Season Ticket’ you would be guaranteed a ticket and your payment would automatically be taken from a debit or credit card. This would be an automated process with no manual element other than the early set up and you would be required to sign up for all away league fixtures. Once we have finalised these details we will provide a further update to inform everyone how it will work.
This model already operates in other Clubs in Scotland and England and I feel that we have now struck a balance of looking after and supporting those who want to travel all the time and also home season ticket holders who also want access to some away matches.
It is important to stress that this relates to games where we will receive tickets to sell. All things being equal we think that will be every match, but there is a slight possibility that a club may decide to run a simple pay at the gate operation rather than give tickets to Hibernian to sell. This would mean that the away season ticket would not apply. Unlikely but possible, so worth noting.
Given our league opponents this year it is our estimation that the only real pressure on tickets will probably be Dumbarton and Falkirk, and this is manageable.
On domestic Cup matches we will soon be announcing a replacement for the Cup Top up scheme, and this does not form part of what I have outlined above.
This has been a long and at times stressful discussion but given the learning of the past two seasons and the challenges we’ve seen, I believe we have now come up with a solution that will work.
As with the introduction of loyalty points, the decision is based on what we believe to be correct, but we will continue to look at ways to improve our ticketing schemes going forward.