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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    EU Control over UK vs UK Control over Scotland

    Considering the mainstream narrative seems to be "EU bad for UK, UK good for Scotland". It would be interesting to see some analysis on just how many EU policies have been forced on the UK Government against it's will in comparison to how many policies have been forced on the Scottish Government against it's will by the UK Government.

    I seen some analysis done a while back (although i'm struggling to find it again) which showed that forced EU policy on the UK Government was extremely minimal. Something like 70 policies out of 30,000+. Reading through each of them made me thankful that they were imposed.

    Compare that to what has been forced on Scotland in the last few years alone, such as the bedroom tax, rape clause, social security cuts and of course brexit itself.

    If anyone can find what i'm talking about, please post it here.


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  3. #2
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    It's not analysis as such but having moved away from Scotland in the early 80's I've witnessed dramatic changes in the country on my infrequent trips back home. The changes haven't been gradual for me because I've witnessed them at roughly 12 month intervals.

    The Scotland I left in 1983 was light years behind the Germany I moved to. Now nearly 4 decades later the gap in standard of living is minimal. The biggest gulf is in public services but that's not surprising considering the Germans pay more in taxes than in the UK.

    As an outsider looking in it's obvious the EU has been good for Scotland and having a devolved parliament has almost certainly helped Scotland catch up with the rest of Europe.

    Again I'll say my impression is subjective but the cynic in me feels that many of the EU financed projects that have benefited Scotland would never have happened if it had been Westminster deciding where the funds go and can't help but ponder what could actually be achieved if Scotland had full fiscal control over its finances.

    Just my tuppence worth.
    Last edited by Hibrandenburg; 06-02-2019 at 04:18 PM.

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Considering the mainstream narrative seems to be "EU bad for UK, UK good for Scotland". It would be interesting to see some analysis on just how many EU policies have been forced on the UK Government against it's will in comparison to how many policies have been forced on the Scottish Government against it's will by the UK Government.

    I seen some analysis done a while back (although i'm struggling to find it again) which showed that forced EU policy on the UK Government was extremely minimal. Something like 70 policies out of 30,000+. Reading through each of them made me thankful that they were imposed.

    Compare that to what has been forced on Scotland in the last few years alone, such as the bedroom tax, rape clause, social security cuts and of course brexit itself.

    If anyone can find what i'm talking about, please post it here.
    I saw that EU analysis recently and it was definitely 30,000+ policies that the UK had voted in favour of and a really tiny amount that UK voted against (I had 12 in my mind but maybe it was 70). I was the same when I saw the examples we voted against - I seem to recall that the only reason I could see that we would have voted that way would be because of inappropriate lobbying influence.

    I'm sure James O'Brien tweeted the details in the last few weeks.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    On a bus so can't find it but I'm sure the EU voting was along the lines of

    92% UK won
    5% abstained
    3% lost



    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

  6. #5
    Waiting on some of Hibs.net's right-wingers coming along to talk about "unelected dictatorship" and "sovereignty"

  7. #6
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendo View Post
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    Waiting on some of Hibs.net's right-wingers coming along to talk about "unelected dictatorship" and "sovereignty"
    Substitute Independence for Brexit and the same slogans get trotted out. Depressing isnít it?
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member HiBremian's Avatar
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    EU control over UK v UK control over Scotland

    By chance, this one has occupied my mind over the past couple of weeks. A number of kippers commenting on social media have been slagging off the EU as a project that is in danger of becoming a political and military union, a strong reason to reject EU membership. Yet when I've pointed out that the UK already IS a political and military union, they go all sheepish "it's up to Scotland if it wants indy" being the usual response. It's clear as day that Unionism in Europe to such people is anathema but in the UK it's just fine.

    If it wasn't clear before, after that judgement that allowed Westminster to retrospectively take over competences previously thought to be the domain the Scottish parliament, devolution cannot compare with the EU model in terms of control. As the word implies, devolution is power handed down, and indeed now seen as "on loan". The sovereignty of the Scottish parliament is, I fear, an illusion, at least under the current arrangements. The EU is in law a cooperation project between sovereign nations who agree to pool certain competences. And as other posters have explained, in something like 95% of cases the UK have achieved the pooling they desired.

    It's interesting that the UK is regarded as a "big player" in the EU. In population terms, the ratios between EU:UK and UK:Scot are pretty similar, around 10:1. A genuinely federal UK would, I suspect, give Scotland the same kind of clout in the UK that the UK has enjoyed in the EU. Sadly, as the whole Brexit saga has shown, Unionism guarantees no voice at all.

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Substitute Independence for Brexit and the same slogans get trotted out. Depressing isnít it?
    Difference is. Scotland does have policies forced on it from Westminster. Not just minimal one's either, but major one's. The Scottish Government mitigates some of them, but they still have to fork the money over to Westminster. Money that could be invested in local councils.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Alf View Post
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    On a bus so can't find it but I'm sure the EU voting was along the lines of

    92% UK won
    5% abstained
    3% lost



    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    I think this is the research

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087360379691380736.html

    It covers 1996-2014. In that time the UK parliament passed about 34000 laws, less than 5000 had EU influence and just 72 were things the UK objected to. The details of the 72 are at the above link.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I think this is the research

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...691380736.html

    It covers 1996-2014. In that time the UK parliament passed about 34000 laws, less than 5000 had EU influence and just 72 were things the UK objected to. The details of the 72 are at the above link.
    That's the one.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    This is the impact the totalitarian "unelected" bureaucrats from the EU have had in the UK between 96 and 14.



    Mental things such as aspartame being included in the ingredient list of products containing it and a ban on cancer causing boosters that were previously used on livestock.

    Would be interesting to see how the wonderful democratic UK has treated Scotland in that same time period.

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