Messi

[The 90+2]

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Mentioned him!

Footballing genius Bill. Had the pleasure of meeting him in Manchester when his boy was at United and a friend was in the youth team (not Sir David or Mikey) never been so star struck in my life 💚

[BILLYHIBS]

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Footballing genius Bill. Had the pleasure of meeting him in Manchester when his boy was at United and a friend was in the youth team (not Sir David or Mikey) never been so star struck in my life 💚

Need to read his book

God!

[Haymaker]

Robin Friday was better.

[Allant1981]

How often did people actually get to see pele play? Was there a lot of Brazilian football on the tv back then?

[BILLYHIBS]

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How often did people actually get to see pele play? Was there a lot of Brazilian football on the tv back then?

Good question

Back in the sixties Brazil was like the other side of the moon and you only ever saw him playing for Brazil in international tournaments on Council Telly which only had three channels back then

He was however a celebrity a bit like the Harlem Globetrotters at the time and you got the odd snippet on News at Ten of a brilliant goal for Santos and you definitely sat up and took notice indeed I remember his 1000th goal was well covered by the news press

When he signed for New York Cosmos in an attempt to boost interest in “soccer” in the US coverage and interest in Pele went into overdrive and total meltdown

[Here’s Lucy!]

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Agree! But Pele would be fitter faster have decent bits then again we all had Puma King Peles and wanted to be him I remember my hero Sojer had a pair Pele would also be carrying less weight as he would be on protein and less carbs so it would be win win he would also earn loads more money like my other hero King Paddy should have
Dont spoil it Peles still the King to me and millions of others

Great, great player - no doubt about that but, as a human being, I think there was a lot left to be desired.

[660]

Maradona is a god whereas Messi is just a great football player.

Quoting goal scoring stats is pointless given it’s a lot easier to score goals now for world class players.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Great, great player - no doubt about that but, as a human being, I think there was a lot left to be desired.

Ambassador for UNESCO?

Pray enlighten me?

[calumhibee1]

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Maradona is a god whereas Messi is just a great football player.

Quoting goal scoring stats is pointless given it’s a lot easier to score goals now for world class players.

Why’s it easier now? Teams now are much better tactically and players like Messi, Ronaldo etc come up against teams with two banks of 4 sitting in front of the goals for them to break down. They don’t get to come up against teams playing a 2-3-5 etc.

And we’re also talking about guys in Messi and Ronaldo who have scored nearly double the goals Maradona did. It’s way too big of a gap to ever be described as pointless to use as a comparison.

[Here’s Lucy!]

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Ambassador for UNESCO?

Pray enlighten me?

Was there not something about him having various affairs and disowning one of his own daughters (or not even admitting she was his)?

Something like that.

[660]

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Why’s it easier now? Teams now are much better tactically and players like Messi, Ronaldo etc come up against teams with two banks of 4 sitting in front of the goals for them to break down. They don’t get to come up against teams playing a 2-3-5 etc.

They also don’t have player trying to break them in half at every opportunity. The rules re tackles have become extremely strict compared to what Maradona has to put up with. Maradona lost 30% of his ankle mobility permanently due to injury.

[cleanyman]

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Why’s it easier now? Teams now are much better tactically and players like Messi, Ronaldo etc come up against teams with two banks of 4 sitting in front of the goals for them to break down. They don’t get to come up against teams playing a 2-3-5 etc.

And we’re also talking about guys in Messi and Ronaldo who have scored nearly double the goals Maradona did. It’s way too big of a gap to ever be described as pointless to use as a comparison.

Once again Calum

These guys are playing in terrible conditions during the winter and as a poster has said there were players trying to end careers

Look at the pictures of Pele getting carried off in a world cup after numerous hacks. Those were tough tackles.

[calumhibee1]

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They also don’t have player trying to break them in half at every opportunity. The rules re tackles have become extremely strict compared to what Maradona has to put up with. Maradona lost 30% of his ankle mobility permanently due to injury.

But they do have to play against guys that are athletic machines rather than guys who chain smoke and drink 10 pints a day.

Having looked previously at league tables from the 50s in Scotland, one thing I noticed was how many goals each team scored. Teams were finishing at the bottom end of the league with goals for columns in the high 70s. That would suggest it was a lot easier to score goals then than it is now. I appreciate that’s not Maradonas era btw but the idea that this is some sort of easy period to score goals in doesn’t really add up or else more players would be scoring 50+ a season. It’s more a case of Messi and Ronaldo making it look easy because they’re so incredibly good.

[MWHIBBIES]

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They also don’t have player trying to break them in half at every opportunity. The rules re tackles have become extremely strict compared to what Maradona has to put up with. Maradona lost 30% of his ankle mobility permanently due to injury.

Maybe he wouldn't have lost that mobility had he actually taken care of himself instead of snorting ching?

This player trying to break him in half thing is such a myth. Sergio Ramos alone has tried to injure Messi multiple times. Not much has changed. Messi is just better in every way.

[Johnny_Leith]

Messi and Ronaldo have both had their share of ridiculous, potential career ending tackles. It's not as if nobody is allowed to touch them. Youtube tackle compilations v either.

[calumhibee1]

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Once again Calum

These guys are playing in terrible conditions during the winter and as a poster has said there were players trying to end careers

Look at the pictures of Pele getting carried off in a world cup after numerous hacks. Those were tough tackles.

And you don’t believe that getting tackled by a guy who’s 6ft3 and 15 stone of athletic muscle wouldn’t hurt? They may not get away with the illegal side of the game now but getting hit by defenders nowadays would be like getting hit by a train compared to the much more unathletic defenders of yesteryear.

[calumhibee1]

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Messi and Ronaldo have both had their share of ridiculous, potential career ending tackles. It's not as if nobody is allowed to touch them. Youtube tackle compilations v either.

Yup. There was one game against Real where was Messi had the whole team take turns kicking lumps out him. It’s not as if they get to play the game with nobody allowed within touching distance of them (although at times nobody can get within touching distance )

[My_Wife_Camille]

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They also don’t have player trying to break them in half at every opportunity. The rules re tackles have become extremely strict compared to what Maradona has to put up with. Maradona lost 30% of his ankle mobility permanently due to injury.

Exactly. They have real, quality defenders to compete against rather than the cloggers from the black and white days. Are we to believe that these players who would just try to kick and foul players are more effective than the likes of Ramos, Pique, Puyol etc?

With the added physicality, strength and Athleticism the likes of Messi and Ronaldo have these days they’d make a mockery of the ‘hairy arsed defenders’ from those days and, imo, would have scored twice as many as they have in this era. To say it was harder to score then is laughable, especially when all the evidences points to there being far more goals scored back then than there is now.

Watching highlights of football in the 50’s - 70’s is laughable stuff. I respect your opinion but I feel it’s nothing more than a bit of rosy retrospection on your part.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Was there not something about him having various affairs and disowning one of his own daughters (or not even admitting she was his)?

Something like that.

Yip!

Every day is a school day

Married three times umpteen affairs seven children one of whom he did not recognise though listed by Wikedpedia as undoubtedly being his sadly died in 2006

Must have had his reasons but agree not good as he is a millionaire several times over

Over the years I have heard that both Maradona and Messi also had different skeletons in their closets but that does not excuse Pele

[calumhibee1]

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Exactly. They have real, quality defenders to compete against rather than the cloggers from the black and white days. Are we to believe that these players who would just try to kick and foul players are more effective than the likes of Ramos, Pique, Puyol etc?

With the added physicality, strength and Athleticism the likes of Messi and Ronaldo have these days they’d make a mockery of the ‘hairy arsed defenders’ from those days and, imo, would have scored twice as many as they have in this era. To say it was harder to score then is laughable, especially when all the evidences points to there being far more goals scored back then than there is now.

Watching highlights of football in the 50’s - 70’s is laughable stuff. I respect your opinion but I feel it’s nothing more than a bit of rosy retrospection on your part.

That’s the way I see it. There’s an arguement that with modern day training and sports science etc that these guys could have been better than Messi and Ronaldo. However, if you take Pele “as was”, Best “as was”, Maradona “as was” and drop them into today’s football they’d be nowhere near the elite level. If you dropped Ronaldo or Messi into the 50s - 70s “as is” then it’d be a cricket score every week.

I think it depends how you are looking at the comparisons. If you’re comparing them to other players of their era and then deciding who was the furthest ahead of there peers then I’ve no idea who was best. If you’re comparing current players to older players based purely on physical and technical attributes then the older players don’t stand a chance IMO but then that’s the same in every sport.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Pele

Messi is very good but to me Pele is the man

Perfect poise finishing balance and the master of every part of the art be it trapping dribbling passing heading athleticism scorer of over 1000 goals in his career scoring three in the 1958 World Cup Semi Final and two in the final as a a seventeen year old

A Brazilian legend and worldwide icon

When I think of Pele I think of him in the same terms as my other hero Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)

Both these guys had the X Factor and they both oozed total class both the masters of their sport

Pele : birth of a legend is a good movie

My favourite match involving Pele was the 1970 World Cup Final Brazil 4 v 1 Italy the all time perfect team performance

I rate Messi along side Christiano Ronaldo but Messi just shades it but then we also have Maradona and Johan Cryuff who were both brilliant as well as our own Gordon Smith and the unforgettable George Best

All of the above from different decades and heroes of different generations

In the current generation I see a lot of Peles qualities in Kylian MBappe of PSG but to me the untouchable Pele is my all time great

Played 1363 scored 1281
Source: FIFA

Pele's best match was against The German Army in Escape to Victory! ☺

[hibsbollah]

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How often did people actually get to see pele play? Was there a lot of Brazilian football on the tv back then?

None at all, to my memory. You had the occasional snippet in World of Sport on ITV in the seventies, 1987 Transworld sport was the first time you had regular foreign highlights, but just in wee five minute bursts.

Football Italia on channel four was the game changer for foreign highlights in the early 90s.

Apparently in Italy and France you got regular foreign football shows back in the day when there was nothing like it in the UK.

[cleanyman]

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That’s the way I see it. There’s an arguement that with modern day training and sports science etc that these guys could have been better than Messi and Ronaldo. However, if you take Pele “as was”, Best “as was”, Maradona “as was” and drop them into today’s football they’d be nowhere near the elite level. If you dropped Ronaldo or Messi into the 50s - 70s “as is” then it’d be a cricket score every week.

I think it depends how you are looking at the comparisons. If you’re comparing them to other players of their era and then deciding who was the furthest ahead of there peers then I’ve no idea who was best. If you’re comparing current players to older players based purely on physical and technical attributes then the older players don’t stand a chance IMO but then that’s the same in every sport.

But you'll never know

You're the kind of guy who'll be dismissing Messi and Ronaldo in 40 years when two even better players come along.

Which there will be by the way

[hibsbollah]

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Maybe he wouldn't have lost that mobility had he actually taken care of himself instead of snorting ching?

This player trying to break him in half thing is such a myth. Sergio Ramos alone has tried to injure Messi multiple times. Not much has changed. Messi is just better in every way.

come on now, you're being silly.
There is no comparison with the tackles of the 70s and 80s and the occasional sly stamp you get today. Quite often a top level full back would get away with a warning for a 21st century 'red card challenge' early doors (a 'reducer' in parlance of old), then another Vinny Jones knee high assault might get a yellow.
You'd have to do four or five dangerous challenges, or punch someone, to actually get a red. Watch a game sometime.

And serie a defenders? In the 80s? No myth. They battered you. And noone got it like Maradona.

[My_Wife_Camille]

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That’s the way I see it. There’s an arguement that with modern day training and sports science etc that these guys could have been better than Messi and Ronaldo. However, if you take Pele “as was”, Best “as was”, Maradona “as was” and drop them into today’s football they’d be nowhere near the elite level. If you dropped Ronaldo or Messi into the 50s - 70s “as is” then it’d be a cricket score every week.

I think it depends how you are looking at the comparisons. If you’re comparing them to other players of their era and then deciding who was the furthest ahead of there peers then I’ve no idea who was best. If you’re comparing current players to older players based purely on physical and technical attributes then the older players don’t stand a chance IMO.

It’s a bit like saying that the guy who broke the world record for the 100m sprint in 1972 is faster than Usain Bolt imo. Maybe he could have been if he has the same specialist footwear, training, nutrition etc but he didn’t so he wasn’t.

Same applies in the Messi/Maradona, Ronaldo/Pelé debate imo. Given the same opportunities the likes of Maradona and Pelé might have reached the same levels and Messi and Ronaldo but unfortunately for them they didn’t.

[cleanyman]

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It’s a bit like saying that the guy who broke the world record for the 100m sprint in 1972 is faster than Usain Bolt imo. Maybe he could have been if he has the same specialist footwear, training, nutrition etc but he didn’t so he wasn’t.

Same applies in the Messi/Maradona, Ronaldo/Pelé debate imo. Given the same opportunities the likes of Maradona and Pelé might have reached the same levels and Messi and Ronaldo but unfortunately for them they didn’t.

Football is a completely different sport. It's a specific case.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Highlights of the 1958 World Cup Final.

Like drunk children 😂

28secs to 58secs is pure comedy.

[cleanyman]

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Highlights of the 1958 World Cup Final.

Like drunk children 😂

28secs to 58secs is pure comedy.

You didn't have HD in 1958

[GTMRossaK3]

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The one player I’d like to go back in time to see play having read the excellent Prince of Wingers - a fantastic and poiniant account of a father by his son (still reckon it should have been Tony playing the piano on the Time for Heroes dvd)

I too would have just loved to have seen Gordon play but being born late 1950 & growing up in the West Highlands I had no opportunity - even having decided to be a Hibs supporter for life in those far off days - Edinburgh was half the world away - my Dad's old Austin A40 Somerset probably wouldn't have made it anyway!

I remember reading a while ago that when he started out on his football career the family had moved from Edinburgh, where he was born, to Montrose and he would play for Kirriemuir Thistle on the Saturday morning then cycle the 24 miles to Montrose to play for Montrose Roselea in the afternoon! Have seen nothing to contradict this fact. That's football dedication.

[calumhibee1]

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But you'll never know

You're the kind of guy who'll be dismissing Messi and Ronaldo in 40 years when two even better players come along.

Which there will be by the way

I probably will be. And that’ll probably be because whoever the top player is at that time will be taller, faster, stronger, more powerful and have better technique than they two. That’s just evolution for ya

I think the fact that any sport that you can easily measure such as 100m sprint, swimming etc all have the current world record holders just now (or at least very recently) show that sportsmen now are better than ever. Footballs not as obvious because they’re so many different parts to be being a footballer but it would defy logic for footballers to be different from the rest.