Referees joining the statement league

[Eaststandee]

Strike incoming?

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[Callum_62]

Cant argue that death threats are anything but repulsive

Cant argue that the standard of our officials is appalling and their perceived integrity is shot to bits

Which, interestingly is exactly what happened the last time the went on strike


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[ScottB]

Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

[SideBurns]

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Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

It's not the solution to wilful ignorance; I can't believe Beaton witnessed all those incidents involving Morelos and didn't think any of them deserved a red card - it just isn't feasible.

[Callum_62]

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It's not the solution to wilful ignorance; I can't believe Beaton witnessed all those incidents involving Morelos and didn't think any of them deserved a red card - it just isn't feasible.

This

And did Bobby Madden really not see Scott “Bruce Lee” Mckennas flying kick on Eduaord of which he was retrospectively punished?




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[InchHibby]

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It's not the solution to wilful ignorance; I can't believe Beaton witnessed all those incidents involving Morelos and didn't think any of them deserved a red card - it just isn't feasible.

I totally agree with this, the only feasible assumption I take from his decisions is that he was cheating.
There is no other logical answer other than that. He’s admitted he seen all three incidents and even to those who would give the benefit of the doubt rather than use the word cheat, this would even have swayed them.

[hibbysam]

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Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Is it not time that referees were obliged to give a TV or radio interview after games to explain why they made certain decisions, at least that might give some clarity regarding their process and way of thinking. … would it not help even more if refs were just now and again willing to admit they had made a mistake, and I don't mean in their memoirs 10 years after retiring but maybe the day after the game.

But the other question regards the process of appointing referees … was there not something on here a few months ago which showed that a massively disproportionate number of grade 1 refs come through the system from in and around Glasgow, no wonder so many of them have, or at least are suspected of having, loyalties to one or other of the two arse cheeks.

If the SFA did something about the west coast referees buddy system which clearly seems to disadvantage refs from elsewhere in Scotland perhaps that would help address the neutrality question.

But the truth is that the standard of refereeing in Scotland is appalling at the moment, with the worst thing being their inconsistent decisions and failing to make decisions which are 'no brainers' but they still seem to get wrong. For example, time wasting … its becoming a bloody epidemic at Easter Road this season and yet when do you ever see anybody booked for it? …. In the Livingston game their keeper delayed taking a bye kick as he picked up his water bottle and made to have a drink from it after the ref had signaled him to restart play … this was with Hibs clearly chasing the game at that point and it was a blatant attempt to waste time … booking him for that action was so obviously appropriate it wasn't true, and yet the ref did nothing apart from to wave at him to get moving.

The other thing is not taking a second to weigh up a situation before making a decision ….. The penalty decision in the League cup final was bad enough, but worse than that was in a recent Hearts game, I cant remember who it was against, where a penalty was given against them which was probably one of the most laughable decisions I think I've ever seen and I'm a bloody Hibs fan. When its gotten so bad that I'm sympathising with sodding Hertz you know its time for refs to shape up.

Each grade 1 ref in this country makes more in a month than over half of our professional footballers do and that includes many players in the premiership .. in view of that I don't think its too much to ask that the standard reaches a far higher level than its currently at and instead of spitting the dummy when the criticism gets a bit heated perhaps they would be better served finding a way to get decisions right.

I would stress that not a single word of this post excuses the utter morons who cant separate football from real life and think its ok to mount personal attacks and make threats to refs either on line or worse in the street …. that is totally unacceptable and I hope the police get a hold of the buggers.

[Beefster]

They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

[lapsedhibee]

"Crises point"? "Bye-standers"? Even The Fat Slug manages to write literate statements.

[JimBHibees]

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They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

Couldn't agree more. The current compliance process seems farcical and inconsistent and should be changed immediately. A good thing imo is that we currently have a number of managers in the league who are not scared to call out refs which I think is healthy within reason.

[Sir David Gray]

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They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

Correct.

I'll also add that if Beaton did see all 3 incidents involving Morelos and felt that not even one of them was worthy of a red card then that opens up a whole lot of other issues regarding his integrity and fitness to referee professional football matches.

I would take his statement to the tribunal as an admission that he requires further training and demote him until he undertakes further training and assessments.

[Lago]

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They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

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Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

So he’s incompetent/bias/corrupt or all of the above

[Fratelli]

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Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

Sorry, have to disagree as to how this would have played out had VAR been available.

In this particular instance, yes Beaton allegedly said that he did see all 3 incidents and of course this fits with the narrative of not punishing Morelos retrospectively which will be supported by the Establishment.

However, I simply don’t accept that had Beaton been called to the touch-line on 3 separate occasions to review the incidents that he would have still taken no action.

The current system makes it easy for him to take the easy option and say ‘I saw the incidents but they didn’t warrant any further action’. And make no mistake, all referees know that they can hide behind this...

[hibbysam]

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Sorry, have to disagree as to how this would have played out had VAR been available.

In this particular instance, yes Beaton allegedly said that he did see all 3 incidents and of course this fits with the narrative of not punishing Morelos retrospectively which will be supported by the Establishment.

However, I simply don’t accept that had Beaton been called to the touch-line on 3 separate occasions to review the incidents that he would have still taken no action.

The current system makes it easy for him to take the easy option and say ‘I saw the incidents but they didn’t warrant any further action’. And make no mistake, all referees know that they can hide behind this...

He was standing right in front of the brown one as I said it to my mate at the time. He quite clearly seen the full scale of that and decided to ignore (i originally thought as it was so early in the game), id have to look at the other two but the Ralston one he was there very quickly so I presume he was on hand to see that incident too and chose not to penalise. The touchy feely one is a wee bit different as it was sly but I’d say it’s easier for him to say now he missed it than make a huge call during the game. At least now he has no way of affecting the game and could save himself abuse if eh just said ‘I didn’t see it’

[KerPlunk]

The following was posted on ‘another site’ recently :-
By Alan Campbell in The Herald:*https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...tle_on_unrest/
IT all got too much for Neil Lennon at Rugby Park last month when a penalty awarded to*Kilmarnock*by referee Kevin Clancy incensed the Hibernian manager and sparked a confrontation with the official.
But while nobody, not even Lennon himself, would have been surprised by his subsequent five-match Scottish FA touchline ban (two of them suspended), what is astonishing is that among the biggest critics of the refereeing system in*Scotland*are many of the officials themselves.
Lennon received the ban for misconduct, but was not further punished for his post-match comments to journalists when he laid into Clancy in particular, and Scottish refereeing standards in general. “Mickey Mouse stuff,” Lennon said contemptuously.
A fortnight earlier Tommy Wright, the*St Johnstonemanager, was more measured when complaining about the performance of another referee, Andrew Dallas, following his dismissal of David Wotherspoon in a league game at Tynecastle.
What linked the two managers’ remarks was that both claimed it was a waste of time phoning the SFA’s head of refereeing operations, John Fleming, on a Monday to complain about his top officials.
“I have probably spoken to John Fleming about Andrew Dallas more than any referee. Nothing seems to change,” Wright said.
Lennon was in agreement. “You ring John Fleming on a Monday and you get the same ‘yeah, yeah’. You go round in circles, and I’ve lost a lot of faith in it to tell you the truth,” he said.
It seems that view is shared in refereeing circles. Clancy and Dallas are regarded by many of their peers as being among a select few in Scotland who wear “bullet-proof vests”. That is because they are Fifa-list referees – the other five in this category being John Beaton, Willie Collum, Bobby Madden, Don Robertson and Nick Walsh.
According to recently- retired referees the Sunday Herald has spoken to, the seven Fifa officials are allocated*Premiership*matches regardless of how many mistakes they are accused of making.
Meanwhile, other Category 1 referees find themselves demoted to the lower leagues if, and when, they make similar errors, losing not only status but the much higher financial payments available in the top league.
Another allegation is that geographical bias is also a factor, according to James Bee, a former Category 2 referee who retired in 2014 and is secretary of the Prospect professional trade union branch of Scottish referees.
“This isn’t just about Fifa referees – it goes wider than that,” said Bee, pictured bottom left. “There are others at Category 1 level who are treated differently [from their colleagues] as well. There appears to be a geographical bias favouring referees from three central belt associations to the detriment of the others.”
Bee points out that of the seven current Fifa referees, three belong to the*Glasgow*association, with Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire each having two. He further states that the last*Edinburgh*Fifa referee was Calum Murray, who came off the list in 2013. The last Ayrshire referee was in 2007, in Fife it was 2000, and*Aberdeen*1999.
“There’s nothing wrong with every country appointing who they believe to be the seven top referees to the Fifa category,” Bee continued. “What has been questioned is how these decisions are arrived at – and what the process is behind them.
“The first Scottish Cup final was in 1873 – and it was 107 years before an Edinburgh referee was appointed to take charge. It is now 145 years since that first final and there has been a total of three. I think that would be reflected in the other associations outwith Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire.”
REMARKABLY, some referees in recent years have been put on the Fifa list without having ever taken charge of a Premiership match.
“The Fifa rules state that a referee can’t be appointed to the list younger than 28,” Bee explained. “The SFA’s referee operations department and referee committee will look at the guys coming up to that age and would hope to identify referees who are good enough.
“That never used to be the case, but the policy for a few years now is the younger the better. As somebody once said to me, if they’re targeting younger guys that’s great – but why does it always seem to be younger guys from the same three associations? Do people from these three areas have a genetic predisposition for refereeing?”
One high-profile former referee, speaking on the guarantee of anonymity, said: “You can pick somebody to grow into a position, but you can’t buy experience. You can pass a fitness test, or a laws of the game examination – but it’s the practical nature and man management of dealing with 22 players and two sets of coaching staff that’s going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not, over time, you’re good enough to do the job.
“To be able to look at somebody [for the Fifa list] without having had that experience just beggars belief.”
THE Scottish Senior Football Referees Association (SSFRA) was formed in 2005 as a vehicle for referees to raise issues, both within the referee department and the SFA. Bee is a former chairman, but, like other ex-referees spoken to, believes it now isn’t fit for purpose.
The current chairman is Lennon’s nemesis Clancy, and it is understood about 50 match officials are members. Prospect have some 65 members, including several Premiership officials, yet the SFA refuse to deal with the union – in contrast with the Football Association in England.
Brian Colvin retired at the end of 2015 and says it is impossible for the SSFRA to properly represent his former colleagues when they feel they need to raise issues.
“The fact that active referees run the SSFRA is fundamentally flawed,” Colvin said. “When I was refereeing at the top level, I would have been very uncomfortable taking a serious matter – such as an issue with appointments – to the SSFRA. It’s easy to argue that it doesn’t have the skill set, or indeed the freedom, to act in the collective best interests of referees.
“I would have felt the opposite approaching experts within Prospect, knowing they would undoubtedly be able to give me sound, confidential and professional advice – as well as taking issues forward to the SFA, should it be required, without any risks or concerns. I didn’t feel this was the case with the current SSFRA model.”
THAT many referees do have concerns was laid bare in a survey conducted by Prospect among 50 of their members. Asked if they believed the match appointments and grading of referees was fair and transparent, a staggering 82 per cent replied they did not.
When asked if they felt the SFA was concerned with their well-being and development, the referees’ replies were also in the negative – 62 per cent said they felt the governing body wasn’t concerned. The survey was conducted 15 months ago, but this is the first time the results have been published and the anecdotal evidence is that the perceived problems very much remain.
The former referee quoted earlier who asked not to be named said: “There was a feeling of ‘them and us’ among the 30 or so Category 1 referees when I was there. Clearly the referees who have the Fifa badge have to be refereeing the top games domestically, but you would want everything to be fair and transparent. Those are two key concepts that I don’t think were ever achieved.
“The 82 per cent negative response [to the survey question on match appointments and the grading of referees being fair and transparent] is extremely high. You would expect there to be a degree of disgruntlement but that’s astronomic. As you’re getting promoted through the ranks you’re flavour of the month, or you must be at some stage to get to Category 1, but what happened within that category was extremely demotivating.
“It just wasn’t fair. You would see high-profile errors being made by some referees without the same repercussions as there were for others.”
THE former official believes that a small number of referee match observers, former referees who grade performances from the stands, contribute hugely to the alleged problems of geographical bias and favouritism.
“The grading clearly had an effect on what fixtures you got over time,” he said. “The vast majority of observers I found to be helpful and trustworthy, but there was a small group who I would say were extremely biased towards their own referee associations.
“Some of their views were so way off the mark from any other feedback you got, and consistently so over a number of years, that what they wrote wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. You just wouldn’t read their reports.
“The vast majority of us are accustomed in our day jobs to being held accountable and appraised. It’s a very similar system in refereeing, but when it’s as unfair in certain quarters as it is, it just stinks.”
THE SFA RESPONSE
A Scottish FA spokesperson said: “The Scottish FA is committed to the development and well-being of match officials – with a recruitment programme that stretches across the country.
“We appreciate the contribution from those across all levels of the domestic game and have an open-door policy to listen to any concerns individuals may have.”
[/quote]

[The Green Goblin]

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Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

Knowing VAR was running might put pressure on him to act? It shouldn’t be necessary, I know.

[Fratelli]

Apologies if this clip has been posted elsewhere but this incident just demonstrates how long Beaton has been cheating clubs that play against Ibrox based teams.

The goalie jumps up mid-way the 6 yard box but ends up over the goal-line and neither Beaton nor the near-side linesman deemed it a foul.

Of course Rangers were losing 1.0 heading into the latter stages of the game.

Beaton isn’t incompetent, he is a blatant cheat but VAR will make it more difficult for these types of officials to influence games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/scotland/26509298

[neil7908]

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Apologies if this clip has been posted elsewhere but this incident just demonstrates how long Beaton has been cheating clubs that play against Ibrox based teams.

The goalie jumps up mid-way the 6 yard box but ends up over the goal-line and neither Beaton nor the near-side linesman deemed it a foul.

Of course Rangers were losing 1.0 heading into the latter stages of the game.

Beaton isn’t incompetent, he is a blatant cheat but VAR will make it more difficult for these types of officials to influence games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/scotland/26509298

What a joke.

[SkintHibby]

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Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

[JimBHibees]

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VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

That seems to be the current mantra in Scottish football however personally think the game needs it and cant afford not to have it..

[MyJo]

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VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

There are already cameras at every premiership game in order to provide highlights to BBC and BT Sport.

Every week Sportscene manage to analyse events and decisions within matches using the footage available, the only thing needed is making this same footage accessible to the referee during the match.

[jgl07]

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VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

I thought that Hearts were going to pay for it?

[James Stephen]

Do they not get paid £1,000 per game too?

[LustForLeith]

What there not supposed to be some official website run by refs where they could post their reasons behind certain decisions but it was never used?

I’d never want to be a ref but some of the decisions they make, with no rationale behind them, are inexcusable.

[JimBHibees]

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What there not supposed to be some official website run by refs where they could post their reasons behind certain decisions but it was never used?

I’d never want to be a ref but some of the decisions they make, with no rationale behind them, are inexcusable.

They used to post explanations for decisions on the Monday after a game on the sfa website which explained why the ref hadn't sent off an old firm player or given a penalty against the old firm .
Joking aside it was called whistleblower and personally thought it was a move in the right direction however for some reason and don't think it was ever communicated they stopped doing it. No one is saying it isn't a difficult job however the apparent notion that a top ref has to come from west central Scotland certainly doesn't help and the apparent lack of governance and responsibility when the same refs keep getting top games after making appalling game changing decisions over and over and over again e.g Collum, gives the impression it isnt as even handed as it should be imo.

[Callum_62]

Can someone please explain why morelos was allowed to commit these 3 fouls - of which beaton seen and wasn’t atleast booked - and then compare that to Kamberis first booking at Tynie, which was for persistent fouling (i believe also 3 fouls)

This is the inconsistency that ruins out game
and makes people question the actual integrity of our referees



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[JimBHibees]

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Can someone please explain why morelos was allowed to commit these 3 fouls - of which beaton seen and wasn’t atleast booked - and then compare that to Kamberis first booking at Tynie, which was for persistent fouling (i believe also 3 fouls)

This is the inconsistency that ruins out game
and makes people question the actual integrity of our referees



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Good comparison. Personally think Flo is one of these players refs give nothing to and are very quick to punish for some reason.

[Libby Hibby]

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Good comparison. Personally think Flo is one of these players refs give nothing to and are very quick to punish for some reason.

Same rule applies to Bartley.

They both play in green. It’s as simple as that.