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  1. #1

    Current Spanish Foreign Minister on Scottish Independence and the EU

    Josep Borrell (Who is Catalan but viscerally opposed to Catalan independence.)

    https://www.facebook.com/POLITICOeu/...922224/?t=2876

    "If Westminster agrees why should we be against it?"

    Hopefully that clears that up. (Aye, sure it will ).


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  3. #2
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    Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So itís not looking likely that Spainís opinion will matter any time soon

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So itís not looking likely that Spainís opinion will matter any time soon
    Latest poll showing if you throw in a non-standard question people aren't familiar with you get a slightly out of line answer.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So it’s not looking likely that Spain’s opinion will matter any time soon
    To illustrate just how ridiculous this is, look into the numbers. Versus a standard Yes/No Survation poll done 6 weeks ago, this Remain/Leave poll shows the 16-34 age group going from 68-32 for Yes to 57-43 for "Remain".

    Presumably you're not stupid enough to be taken in by this rubbish - did you really think lots of folk on here would be?

    It's this sort of blatant "take posters for idiots" approach that sees people decry the quality of posting on here.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Certainly the latest ďpollĒ looks like an outlier , most recent polls have it fairly even - certainly not a cert either way and definitely not by 10% margin


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  7. #6
    From the Scotsmen.

    Polling agency Survation used a wording based on the 2016 EU referendum, asking people how they would vote in response to the question ďshould Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom?Ē

    Question seems reasonable to me, why do you think otherwise?

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Guess the question is why a 10% or more swing from:

    should Scotland be an independent country?

    To

    Should Scotland leave the united kingdom or remain in the united kingdom?


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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Callum_62 View Post
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    Guess the question is why a 10% or more swing from:

    should Scotland be an independent country?

    To

    Should Scotland leave the united kingdom or remain in the united kingdom?


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    We saying people would vote one way with one of the questions but then another way when asked the other question?

    Yes or No and Leave or Remain seem like solid positive or negative answers.

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    We saying people would vote one way with one of the questions but then another way when asked the other question?

    Yes or No and Leave or Remain seem like solid positive or negative answers.
    Its certainly a massive swing

    Cant think if anything super positive thats happened to legitimately cause that to happen

    Certainly odd anyway


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  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    From the Scotsmen.

    Polling agency Survation used a wording based on the 2016 EU referendum, asking people how they would vote in response to the question “should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom?”

    Question seems reasonable to me, why do you think otherwise?
    Because it requires the respondent to mentally map remain/leave onto their familiar yes/no Scottish independence answer while disregarding their attitude to the question of remain/leave vis a vis Brexit.

    Looking at the numbers, you can either believe that some of them answered carelessly or there has been a sudden, massive swing in favour of the Union, strongest among the young (the group most pro-Yes and pro-Brexit-remain) and weakest (actually a slight swing to Yes) among the 55+ age group (the group most pro-No and pro-Brexit-leave).


    And, of course, lucky is a pro-Union Labour activist who almost certainly knows all of the above. Disingenuous much?

    If you believe the latter, I have a bridge you might be interested in?
    Last edited by JeMeSouviens; 20-11-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  12. #11
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    Funny how the resident unionists have nothing to say about what was mentioned in the OP.

  13. #12
    Left by mutual consent! Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    With this now being clearly clarified, perhaps we should have a poll worded:

    "Should Scotland be an independent nation within the EU with access to the single market? or should Scotland remain in the UK outwith the EU without access to the single market?"

    Wonder what the outcome would be then.

  14. #13
    Left by mutual consent! Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Or how about:

    "Should Scotland join a union of 27 other member states with equal representation? Or should Scotland remain in a union of 4 member states, where 1 state calls the shots?"

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Or how about:

    "Should Scotland join a union of 27 other member states with equal representation? Or should Scotland remain in a union of 4 member states, where 1 state calls the shots?"
    You shouldn't indulge this Unionist fantasy spin about "member states" in the UK. It's 1 state, ruled from the centre.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    With this now being clearly clarified, perhaps we should have a poll worded:

    "Should Scotland be an independent nation within the EU with access to the single market? or should Scotland remain in the UK outwith the EU without access to the single market?"

    Wonder what the outcome would be then.
    You'd have to add, for balance... "should Scotland be an independent nation, outwith the EU?".

  17. #16
    Left by mutual consent! Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    You'd have to add, for balance... "should Scotland be an independent nation, outwith the EU?".
    Which would result in a 3 way split, with none of the options getting a majority. Perhaps:

    "Should Scotland be an independent country with the option of joining the EU? Or remain part of the UK with no future option to rejoin?"

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Which would result in a 3 way split, with none of the options getting a majority. Perhaps:

    "Should Scotland be an independent country with the option of joining the EU? Or remain part of the UK with no future option to rejoin?"
    The UK would have an option to rejoin*, subject to some interesting negotiations I'd imagine.

    * but hopefully won't leave in the first place.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Which would result in a 3 way split, with none of the options getting a majority. Perhaps:

    "Should Scotland be an independent country with the option of joining the EU? Or remain part of the UK with no future option to rejoin?"
    And I thought the Nations League was complicated 😉

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Because it requires the respondent to mentally map remain/leave onto their familiar yes/no Scottish independence answer while disregarding their attitude to the question of remain/leave vis a vis Brexit.

    Looking at the numbers, you can either believe that some of them answered carelessly or there has been a sudden, massive swing in favour of the Union, strongest among the young (the group most pro-Yes and pro-Brexit-remain) and weakest (actually a slight swing to Yes) among the 55+ age group (the group most pro-No and pro-Brexit-leave).


    And, of course, lucky is a pro-Union Labour activist who almost certainly knows all of the above. Disingenuous much?

    If you believe the latter, I have a bridge you might be interested in?
    Itís a daft question and undermines the poll entirely.

    Watch for media pressure to change the question to those terms - which are of course, naturally biased towards remain.

    Any trick, any gerrymandering will do...


  21. #21
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So itís not looking likely that Spainís opinion will matter any time soon
    Oh dear, what have labour become. Pamela Nash would be proud of you.

    Mon Scottish slavers.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Oh dear, what have labour become. Pamela Nash would be proud of you.

    Mon Scottish slavers.
    Lovely response as usual. What this poll proves is that the question being asked is vitally important. In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.

    Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotlandís railways in private hands last week.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Lovely response as usual. What this poll proves is that the question being asked is vitally important. In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.

    Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotlandís railways in private hands last week.
    Big sigh - it really doesn't. You can put a short term skew on the numbers by confusing or misleading folk, but it doesn't last once they get used to the new question. So dream on.

    And your last line - gonnae start your own petty nat/yoon-bashing thread if that's all your interested in and you can bash away there?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Big sigh - it really doesn't. You can put a short term skew on the numbers by confusing or misleading folk, but it doesn't last once they get used to the new question. So dream on.

    And your last line - gonnae start your own petty nat/yoon-bashing thread if that's all your interested in and you can bash away there?
    I was just responding to the usual crap I get from the payroll Nat. But I think Iíll just bow out from posting as itís pointless unless your part of the clan

  25. #25
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Because it requires the respondent to mentally map remain/leave onto their familiar yes/no Scottish independence answer while disregarding their attitude to the question of remain/leave vis a vis Brexit.

    Looking at the numbers, you can either believe that some of them answered carelessly or there has been a sudden, massive swing in favour of the Union, strongest among the young (the group most pro-Yes and pro-Brexit-remain) and weakest (actually a slight swing to Yes) among the 55+ age group (the group most pro-No and pro-Brexit-leave).


    And, of course, lucky is a pro-Union Labour activist who almost certainly knows all of the above. Disingenuous much?

    If you believe the latter, I have a bridge you might be interested in?
    Sorry, I'm maybe totally misreading your post here - are you saying that some Yes&Remain supporters are so engrossed in the "Remain" battle currently that when asked if Scotland should remain in the UK they just instinctively say "Remain"?

    It certainly looks like a bit of an outlier in general for a sudden lurch to No compared to all other polls though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...h_independence
    Mon the Hibs.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Sorry, I'm maybe totally misreading your post here - are you saying that some Yes&Remain supporters are so engrossed in the "Remain" battle currently that when asked if Scotland should remain in the UK they just instinctively say "Remain"?

    It certainly looks like a bit of an outlier in general for a sudden lurch to No compared to all other polls though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...h_independence
    I did find it a bit odd that there is a suggestion that people are confused between remaining part of the UK and leaving the UK they have answered incorrectly. Suggesting they thought they were being asked about the EU? I mean remain and leave are not easily confused. I find it hard to believe people answered remain in the UK but actually meant remain in the EU when the question never even referenced the EU.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.
    You don't see the problem with that?

    You're quite happy for our lords and masters at westminster to dictate the terms of a referendum in our own country? Nothing that comes out of the minds of British Nationalist/Unionists surprises me at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotland’s railways in private hands last week.
    Perhaps you can explain why Labour when they were in power in Scotland turned down the opportunity to renationalize Scotland's railways?

    Could it have been.... (and this is just a hunch)..... down to a lack of funding?

    If the SNP had backed a policy to renationalize the railways, would Labour have supported the budget at Westminster to make it financially possible?
    Last edited by Fife-Hibee; 21-11-2018 at 01:36 PM.

  28. #28
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Lovely response as usual. What this poll proves is that the question being asked is vitally important. In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.

    Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotlandís railways in private hands last week.
    Railway privatisation. Lols.

    13 years in power in the UK from 1997, to 2010. Nada, zilch, zip.

    Back on track, how are those privatised deals doing in labour run, Wales.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Sorry, I'm maybe totally misreading your post here - are you saying that some Yes&Remain supporters are so engrossed in the "Remain" battle currently that when asked if Scotland should remain in the UK they just instinctively say "Remain"?

    It certainly looks like a bit of an outlier in general for a sudden lurch to No compared to all other polls though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...h_independence
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Remember this wasn't a phone poll so nobody read out the questions to them, they had to read them carefully and then tick the right box. As I said above, it's not a uniform lurch from Y->N. The age group you'd most expect to be Yes (from all other polling) suddenly went to No and the age group you'd most expect to be No moved slightly to Yes. The only plausible explanation is confusion/carelessness by the respondents. If you think about it, it's not a huge stretch to imagine some will have skim read the questions and ticked the wrong box.

    For reliable opinion poll results it's best to stick with the well known question. But then, the client in this case has a vested interest in a skewed result.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Railway privatisation. Lols.

    13 years in power in the UK from 1997, to 2010. Nada, zilch, zip.

    Back on track, how are those privatised deals doing in labour run, Wales.
    GET YOUR OWN THREAD!!

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