Lennon Tells It Like It Is

**~~hibbyfraelibby~~** · 02-11-2018 12:38 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46073396

***Sylar*** · 02-11-2018 12:43 PM

Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

***bingo70*** · 02-11-2018 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

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Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

**1van Sprou7e** · 02-11-2018 12:49 PM

Effigy? I saw the graffiti but not sure there was an effigy

***matty_f*** · 02-11-2018 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by 1van Sprou7e

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Effigy? I saw the graffiti but not sure there was an effigy

He's had an effigy of him burned before.

***matty_f*** · 02-11-2018 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by bingo70

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People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

I don't think he's far off the mark, it's anti-Irish and anti-Catholic abuse that he gets.

More power to him for calling it out in as blunt terms as possible. We should all be doing that, rather than shying away from it.

**Blaster** · 02-11-2018 12:51 PM

Interview coming up on SSN

**nickwhibs** · 02-11-2018 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by bingo70

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People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

Absolutely. And as he says in the article, racism is not about the colour of someone's skin, it is about the person's culture, heritage and background, so I can absolutely see where he is coming from. The only way to deal with things like this is to stand up to them and raise awareness; not to brush it off to allow people to sweep it under the carpet.

***Sylar*** · 02-11-2018 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by bingo70

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People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

**~~Dancehibs~~** · 02-11-2018 12:57 PM

If he had a Muslim faith , you bet the authorities in Scotland wouldn’t be standing for it. It feels abusing Catholics is ok in Scotland.

Hopefully, hibs fans show Lenny tomorrow how much we love him

**Pretty Boy** · 02-11-2018 12:57 PM

He's telling it exactly as it is rather than dancing round the issues like too many politicians and members of the media want to do. They don't call it out because it costs them votes or paper sales or website hits or whatever else. The people he is talking about hate him anyway so him coming out and saying it won't really effect him.

Every Hibs fan should be right behind him because what he has had to endure in nearly 2 decades in Scotland is a ****ing disgrace. The media are uncomfortable because in some instances they have been complicit in whipping up the feeling around him. Rather than getting bogged down in semantics we should be acknowledging the home truths he points out. Several times in the last few days it's been said sectarianism is an elephant in the room and maybe people will now take a bit notice and demand something is done about it.

**1van Sprou7e** · 02-11-2018 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

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You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

How does he belittle racism? Do you think racism is worse than sectarianism?

**~~My_Wife_Camille~~** · 02-11-2018 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

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Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

Disagree. He’s calling it out for what it is

The word sectarianism has developed into a bit of a euphemism for racism in Scotland. It’s the acceptable face of racism, a nice flowery term used by the media to mask the problems of rampant religious hatred in this country.

People who wouldn’t dream about singing songs about being up to their knees in n*****s blood are quite happy to sing the same thing about fenians because they’re not racist, just a little bit sectarian. It’s all just a bit joke. Racism is awful but sectarianism is just a bit of banter.

Ok, it might not meet the dictionary definition or anything like that but the term simply doesn’t pack the same punch as ‘racism’ does. Lennon has done a good thing here by pointing out that when it’s all said and done they are one and the same thing.

**davhibby** · 02-11-2018 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

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You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

The point is though if he had used the term sectarian it would just be ignored and filed under yet another sectarian issue at the football here. It's 2018 yet still nobody seems to care enough to do anything about it. Lennon saying this hopefully highlights it better as it deserves to be

***blackpoolhibs*** · 02-11-2018 01:06 PM

What a great interview Lenny, at last someone standing up and telling it as it is.

***green day*** · 02-11-2018 01:07 PM

Watched it on SSN just now.

He is clearly very angry - rightly.

I hope this doesnt have the effect of taking his eye off the ball.

**wpj** · 02-11-2018 01:07 PM

Been reading the i newspaper today, wee article about the sectarian nature of the attack on Lennon and the "fringe" sectarian element in the support. Doesn't gloss over the Hibs fans behaviour either.
Sorry I cant post a link but cant find it online

**Pretty Boy** · 02-11-2018 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by My_Wife_Camille

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Disagree. He’s calling it out for what it is

The word sectarianism has developed into a bit of a euphemism for racism in Scotland. It’s the acceptable face of racism, a nice flowery term used by the media to mask the problems of rampant religious hatred in this country.

People who wouldn’t dream about singing songs about being up to their knees in n*****s blood are quite happy to sing the same thing about fenians because they’re not racist, just a little bit sectarian. It’s all just a bit joke. Racism is awful but sectarianism is just a bit of banter.

Ok, it might not meet the dictionary definition or anything like that but the term simply doesn’t pack the same punch as ‘racism’ does. Lennon has done a good thing here by pointing out that when it’s all said and done they are one and the same thing.

Substitute any of the words NL talks about having been used to describe him for a whole list of words that the swear filter would detect and it would be called for what it is.

Giving it a fancy name doesn't detract from the fact it is motivated by exactly the same feelings that motivate racism even if it doesn't quite meet the dictionary definition. 'It's not racism, it's sectarianism' is from the same school of thought as 'abusing Muslims isn't racist because Islam isn't a race'.

**Big_Franck** · 02-11-2018 01:09 PM

I'm not religious in the slightest, so I've no real bias when it comes to this issue.

But if Hearts or Sevco fans abused another manager for 90 mins, calling him a Muslim or Jew bast**d can you imagine the reaction? There would quite rightly be uproar. The fact is anti-catholic sectarianism is tolerated in Scotland. It's tolerated by a huge number of fans, it's tolerated by pundits and journalists, by the SFA and SPFL and even by our governments.

Good on Lennon for speaking out and standing up for himself and anyone else that gets this abuse on a weekly basis.

**adhibs** · 02-11-2018 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

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You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

So you don't think the abuse he received on Wednesday, and pretty much his whole career, is made up of a mix of anti Irish, and anti Catholic insults? Get your head out the sand.

**JeMeSouviens** · 02-11-2018 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

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You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

Indeed, and it's pretty much only the ones of Irish descent who get singled out for the abuse.

***Not In The Know*** · 02-11-2018 01:15 PM

A poster mentioned on another thread that during the BBC Scotland Commentary (from the press box conveniently positioned in the middle front of the new main stand) that you could clearly hear sectarian insults being shouted. And on more than one occasion the commentator had to apologise.

Can we not request these are aired again just to prove what he has to put up with from fans in certain grounds?

***Sylar*** · 02-11-2018 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by 1van Sprou7e

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How does he belittle racism? Do you think racism is worse than sectarianism?

That's an actually an interesting question, and you've given me pause for thought on why I wrote that. No, I don't think any one type of abuse is more "significant" than another, but ask any black, Asian (Far East or Southern), or Middle-Eastern person what it's like to walk down particular areas of a town and be abused on physical appearance alone. Neil is correct, that people don't JUST attack the colour of a person's skin (it's a cultural/heritage discrimination), but it's how they identify their "targets" and it's a danger for them on a daily basis. There's also an element of choice in being Catholic - sure, some people are brought up with it hardened into them via the family/community/church, but at the end of the day, you can always chose to not be Catholic - you can't chose to not be a particular race, and that's where the definitions vary for me.

Originally Posted by My_Wife_Camille

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Disagree. He’s calling it out for what it is

The word sectarianism has developed into a bit of a euphemism for racism in Scotland. It’s the acceptable face of racism, a nice flowery term used by the media to mask the problems of rampant religious hatred in this country.

People who wouldn’t dream about singing songs about being up to their knees in n*****s blood are quite happy to sing the same thing about fenians because they’re not racist, just a little bit sectarian. It’s all just a bit joke. Racism is awful but sectarianism is just a bit of banter.

Ok, it might not meet the dictionary definition or anything like that but the term simply doesn’t pack the same punch as ‘racism’ does. Lennon has done a good thing here by pointing out that when it’s all said and done they are one and the same thing.

Look, I've no problem with NL pointing out the severity of the abuse he received on Wednesday night, which everyone knows he's experienced during his entire time not only in Scotland but Northern Ireland too. I cannot even begin to imagine what it's like for him to live the life he does on a day to day basis. He didn't instigate what he got on Wednesday, and he's 100% the victim here, but I don't believe he was the victim of racial abuse.

***matty_f*** · 02-11-2018 01:18 PM

https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.co...ing_2.html?m=1

***Keith_M*** · 02-11-2018 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

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... 'abusing Muslims isn't racist because Islam isn't a race'.

Ehm, I think you spoilt an otherwise very good argument with that comment, as it's actually not racism, it's religious bigotry (or sectarian, if you lke). I do agree that many Muslims also receive racist abuse because of the colour of their skin.

FWIW, Lennon receives abuse because he is an Irish Catholic, so it's mostly sectarian but could possibly also be called racist (because of the Irish part).

Either way, it's an ugly blight on our society that really should be called out and condemned... especially when one particular club stays persistently silent on the sectarian nature of tens of thousands of their supporters when attending matches... as does the media and football authorities

**RoxburghHibs** · 02-11-2018 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sylar

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Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

He/We all know that but that's not the point is it? He is making the point that sectarianism is not treated in the same way as racism yet they are the same in all but name.

**SirDavidsNapper** · 02-11-2018 01:25 PM

There is clearly a problem. Sent bullets by Rangers fans and attacked by Hearts fans. Clear what the issue is. It's Scotland's cancer imo and it's as rife as it's ever been. It's the 21st century for goodness sake.