Jambos and sectarian songs

[NAE NOOKIE]

Interesting to see a thread on JKB expressing disappointment at the amount and level of Billy Boy and FTP songs sung by their fans at St Johnstone yesterday, it was also mentioned on their matchday thread.

In all honesty it was heartening ( no pun intended ) to see the majority of folk posting on the thread who were dead set against those fans who seem hell bent on turning Hearts into a Sevco tribute act and even more heartening to see a few posters stand up for us when some of the apologists tried to defend the songs by suggesting that we sing pro IRA stuff ... more than one poster with high post counts over there correctly pointing out that it has been decades since Hibs fans got themselves involved in that nonsense.

All I would say to fans of both clubs, is the Edinburgh derby and rivalry is one of, if not the, oldest in world football, the passion it generates is as good as any derby anywhere. In some quarters religious sectarianism and serious violence surrounding derby matches is mistaken for football passion, its not, its small minded idiocy perpetrated by brainless morons who have no love for the game.
For the last 20 or 30 years the Edinburgh derby has managed to maintain an intense atmosphere based on a healthy mutual dislike of each other based on nothing more than football rivalry .... we ( neither club ) needs to spoil that by reintroducing a factor that isn't needed, isn't welcome, and to the credit of both supports huge efforts have been made in the last 30 years to consign to history where it belongs and where it should certainly stay.

So with the upcoming derby in mind. Good luck to the Hearts fans who want to see their fans cut out the bigoted crap and a reminder to Hibs fans that if it does happen reacting in kind will only make the situation worse, it wont stop it.

[Colr]

Agree with that. Hearts fans I know or are related to are not sectarian in any way and neither are Hibs.

Let’s leave that ***** to the morons from Glasgow.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Very well said. Hearts have always had a minority of hardcore loyalists in their support who do their best to mimic Rangers. If they are such staunch bigots, why don't they just go and support the real thing? I'm confident they remain a minority, albeit a loud minority, and that most Jambos are embarrassed by them. Certainly the Hearts fans I know have no time for them. Football supports will always contain some real clowns, Hibs included, but the overt sectarian garbage is very much an Old Firm thing now. The problem is bigots at all clubs hear the Old Firm singing it every week with impunity and know they can get away with it. Good on those Jambos who expressed their disgust.

[Elephant Stone]

It's been going on for decades. Have their club or support done anything about it? Nah. And they have the cheek to use words like 'vermin'.

We all have pals who support Hearts but as a collective group they have some of the shannest banter imaginable.

[CraigHibee]

The jambos I know can't stand any of the sectarian guff

[green day]

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It's been going on for decades. Have their club or support done anything about it? Nah. And they have the cheek to use words like 'vermin'.

We all have pals who support Hearts but as a collective group they have some of the shannest banter imaginable.

Not entirely true - Anne Budge has banned a fair few already for unsavoury behaviour and published articles on their site condemning stuff like this.

I dont have that much time for the auld troot, but she has definitely marked the card of the lunatic fringe across the road.

[Aldo]

I had the misfortune of going to school with quite a few yams who had and still have very loyalist views. They were amongst those who would position themselves in the corner of the old asbestos stand near the Roseburn end.

Lowlife then and lowlife now and views to match.

Minority I hasten to add but still Neanderthals

[Hibernian Verse]

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Not entirely true - Anne Budge has banned a fair few already for unsavoury behaviour and published articles on their site condemning stuff like this.

I dont have that much time for the auld troot, but she has definitely marked the card of the lunatic fringe across the road.

Correct. And she has also been very good for Scottish football along with our very own Leann. IMO.

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[Johnny Clash]

Let’s not forget that Hearts were founded the original sectarian bigoted club in Scotland so they’re not really a tribute act. Sadly, they signed up to religious hatred (before Rangers got in on the act). Religious intolerance and persecution was huge in the 1870s and I’m sure all Hibees are glad to see the world move on since then.

Hibs were set up through the St. Patrick’s branch of the Catholic Young Men’s Society but I’ve never heard of Hibs supporters singing songs of hate against any religion.

[Sprouleflyer]

Plenty of 90 min bigots within the Hearts support.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Plenty of 90 min bigots within the Hearts support.

There are no 'ninety minute bigots', only bigots. If they sing sectarian songs at football, they hold sectarian views. Anyone who rejects those views wouldn't sing them.

[Colr]

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Let’s not forget that Hearts were founded the original sectarian bigoted club in Scotland so they’re not really a tribute act. Sadly, they signed up to religious hatred (before Rangers got in on the act). Religious intolerance and persecution was huge in the 1870s and I’m sure all Hibees are glad to see the world move on since then.

Hibs were set up through the St. Patrick’s branch of the Catholic Young Men’s Society but I’ve never heard of Hibs supporters singing songs of hate against any religion.

Well, at a time when the sectarians that ran Scottish football excluded Hibs because they were Irish, Hearts ignored them and continued to play us.

Either way, that was a long time ago and the people involved were not us and are long dead.

Like you I’ve never heard anything sectarian from Hibs the way one would experience at Celtic.

[overdrive]

Sadly, I think it is the younger generation who are getting into this nonsense. Last Sunday after their game I was passing the Omni Centre and there was a small group of teenage Hearts fans outside giving it laldy with the billy boys and songs about fenians.

Also, for balance, I was embarrassed at some of the stuff that was coming out of the singing section yesterday. Not sectarian but stuff that was poor taste. It started with the Mercer song which to be fair was quickly drowned out by the rest of the section the first time one guy tried to start it. The ones about Mercer’s wife and Marvin Bartley were below the belt.

[InchHibby]

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Interesting to see a thread on JKB expressing disappointment at the amount and level of Billy Boy and FTP songs sung by their fans at St Johnstone yesterday, it was also mentioned on their matchday thread.

In all honesty it was heartening ( no pun intended ) to see the majority of folk posting on the thread who were dead set against those fans who seem hell bent on turning Hearts into a Sevco tribute act and even more heartening to see a few posters stand up for us when some of the apologists tried to defend the songs by suggesting that we sing pro IRA stuff ... more than one poster with high post counts over there correctly pointing out that it has been decades since Hibs fans got themselves involved in that nonsense.

All I would say to fans of both clubs, is the Edinburgh derby and rivalry is one of, if not the, oldest in world football, the passion it generates is as good as any derby anywhere. In some quarters religious sectarianism and serious violence surrounding derby matches is mistaken for football passion, its not, its small minded idiocy perpetrated by brainless morons who have no love for the game.
For the last 20 or 30 years the Edinburgh derby has managed to maintain an intense atmosphere based on a healthy mutual dislike of each other based on nothing more than football rivalry .... we ( neither club ) needs to spoil that by reintroducing a factor that isn't needed, isn't welcome, and to the credit of both supports huge efforts have been made in the last 30 years to consign to history where it belongs and where it should certainly stay.

So with the upcoming derby in mind. Good luck to the Hearts fans who want to see their fans cut out the bigoted crap and a reminder to Hibs fans that if it does happen reacting in kind will only make the situation worse, it wont stop it.

Great post, I agree with this entirely, no time for anybody who brings religion or politics into the game of football. Well said my man. GGTTH

[Johnny Clash]

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Well, at a time when the sectarians that ran Scottish football excluded Hibs because they were Irish, Hearts ignored them and continued to play us.

Either way, that was a long time ago and the people involved were not us and are long dead.

Like you I’ve never heard anything sectarian from Hibs the way one would experience at Celtic.

The zoomers seem to be two cheeks of the same arse with their anti- Catholic rhetoric. Hibs were immersed in Irish politics at our outset but supporting political objectives like Home Rule and an Irish Republic is totally different to ‘hating protestants’. In fact, many Protestants fought against tyrany in Ireland -Wolfe Tone for example!

[superfurryhibby]

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Let’s not forget that Hearts were founded the original sectarian bigoted club in Scotland so they’re not really a tribute act. Sadly, they signed up to religious hatred (before Rangers got in on the act). Religious intolerance and persecution was huge in the 1870s and I’m sure all Hibees are glad to see the world move on since then.

Hibs were set up through the St. Patrick’s branch of the Catholic Young Men’s Society but I’ve never heard of Hibs supporters singing songs of hate against any religion.

Hibs were without question an exclusively catholic side and in that sense they were sectarian, probably so until the demise of the original set up in the early 1890's. This wasn't a part of Hearts' constitution and as someone with a keen interest in the history of our game, have to say that this is the first time I've heard that claim.

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Well, at a time when the sectarians that ran Scottish football excluded Hibs because they were Irish, Hearts ignored them and continued to play us.

Either way, that was a long time ago and the people involved were not us and are long dead.

Like you I’ve never heard anything sectarian from Hibs the way one would experience at Celtic.

In short, you must never have attended Easter Road in the 70's or 80's. We had a lot of Rebel songs/pro IRA chants in our songbook.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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In short, you must never have attended Easter Road in the 70's or 80's. We had a lot of Rebel songs/pro IRA chants in our songbook.

Thankfully, that stuff must just have been dying out when I started to attend right at the end of the eighties. I don't remember any. My dad certainly does, and he says it caused aggro amongst Hibs fans as objections to certain songs could end in arguments and even fights. Crazy times.

[Bishop Hibee]

Pretty sad these songs are back at Tynie. Most Hearts fans I know will be embarrassed by them. Unfortunately I know a minority will be loving it.

As for Hibs, I’ve not heard anything that could be classed as sectarian since the late 80’s.

[Colr]

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In short, you must never have attended Easter Road in the 70's or 80's. We had a lot of Rebel songs/pro IRA chants in our songbook.

Just used to go to the ESS games in the 70s when I was a wee boy. I stopped going in the 80s because I couldn’t be arsed with the violence that accompanied football at that time.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Just used to go to the ESS games in the 70s when I was a wee boy. I stopped going in the 80s because I couldn’t be arsed with the violence that accompanied football at that time.

Aye, it's a completely different experience now, and for the most part far better, IMHO. My dad would have loved to take my brother and I along much earlier than he did, but football just wasn't a place for kids during the high point of hooliganism. I was around thirteen before I was allowed to go, and even then couldn't go unaccompanied. There weren't many women and children at games back then, and I still remember the strong smell of cigarette smoke, booze and pish. Being at the fitba meant you were growing up.

It's great to see families at games now, even very young children. It just wasn't possible when we were wee.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Let’s not forget that Hearts were founded the original sectarian bigoted club in Scotland so they’re not really a tribute act. Sadly, they signed up to religious hatred (before Rangers got in on the act). Religious intolerance and persecution was huge in the 1870s and I’m sure all Hibees are glad to see the world move on since then.

Hibs were set up through the St. Patrick’s branch of the Catholic Young Men’s Society but I’ve never heard of Hibs supporters singing songs of hate against any religion.

It was rife in the 70's. We even had guys shaking collection tins for "our boys over the water" at games.

[bigwheel]

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Let’s not forget that Hearts were founded the original sectarian bigoted club in Scotland so they’re not really a tribute act. Sadly, they signed up to religious hatred (before Rangers got in on the act). Religious intolerance and persecution was huge in the 1870s and I’m sure all Hibees are glad to see the world move on since then.

Hibs were set up through the St. Patrick’s branch of the Catholic Young Men’s Society but I’ve never heard of Hibs supporters singing songs of hate against any religion.

You must be younger than me - in 70s and early 80s , Hibs fans travelled with a few
Of the pro Irish independence and anti “orange” Songs in our songbook ... never heard it since then mind you

[GreenCastle]

Seems the yams away following seem to have the sectarian element - before the derby in pubs and away games around the Perth train stations.

I also think a lot of them are so thick they actually don’t even know what they are singing.

If you asked them individually what they are singing about they provably wouldn’t be able to explain it.

Anyway no doubt at the derby you will have the usual idiots in the corner of the hearts stands giving it the cringey Union Jack waving and saltutes we often see.

[Johnny Clash]

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You must be younger than me - in 70s and early 80s , Hibs fans travelled with a few
Of the pro Irish independence and anti “orange” Songs in our songbook ... never heard it since then mind you

I wasn’t talking about pro Independence songs or songs condemning Orange bigotry. I’ve never once heard Hibs fans singing anti-Protestant songs.

[Mikey]

Their songbook was decimated last year so they've had to find something new to sing about.

[ionahibby]

I was shocked it took them 3 pages on their thread to mention us! It usually is one the first things they blame on us when it comes to all that stuff.
Even a few hearts fans I know though not sectarian in any way had a slight dig when we signed up Lennon "us and Lennon are a perfect fit" wink wink. Sometimes I think they like the mini rangers tag.

[Johnny Clash]

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Hibs were without question an exclusively catholic side and in that sense they were sectarian, probably so until the demise of the original set up in the early 1890's. This wasn't a part of Hearts' constitution and as someone with a keen interest in the history of our game, have to say that this is the first time I've heard that claim.

In short, you must never have attended Easter Road in the 70's or 80's. We had a lot of Rebel songs/pro IRA chants in our songbook.

There‘s a lot of meticulous research in Alan Lugton’s book ‘The Making of Hibernian” volume 1 . It’s an excellent read. He details the formation of Heart of Midlothian (named after a dance hall which in turn took the name from an old Edinburgh prison). Hearts ‘Protestant Only’ policy was formal whereas when Rangers followed theirs was unwritten.

Hibs fans did indeed sing songs supporting a United Ireland but they did not sing anti-Protestant songs.

[Kato]

Weird they are all over the Rosebery family again. They were synonymous with the Orange Order at one time and their most vocal supporters.

I guess losing their songbook on 21.5.16 has created a vacuum which has to be filled somehow. Displays a shocking lack of imagination dredging that crap up. Good on those Hearts fans coming out against it, self-policing is the only way.

[Kato]

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There‘s a lot of meticulous research in Alan Lugton’s book ‘The Making of Hibernian” volume 1 . It’s an excellent read. He details the formation of Heart of Midlothian (named after a dance hall which in turn took the name from an old Edinburgh prison). Hearts ‘Protestant Only’ policy was formal whereas when Rangers followed theirs was unwritten.

There were articles in the press at one point that Hearts were considering an "Orange man" only signing policy back then.

[tamig]

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Sadly, I think it is the younger generation who are getting into this nonsense. Last Sunday after their game I was passing the Omni Centre and there was a small group of teenage Hearts fans outside giving it laldy with the billy boys and songs about fenians.

Also, for balance, I was embarrassed at some of the stuff that was coming out of the singing section yesterday. Not sectarian but stuff that was poor taste. It started with the Mercer song which to be fair was quickly drowned out by the rest of the section the first time one guy tried to start it. The ones about Mercer’s wife and Marvin Bartley were below the belt.

There was also a blast of that odious “Stokesy’s Da” ditty against the hun the other week. The Mercer song is more than fair game in my book. I could never condemn it.