Thoughts on finances?

[heidtheba]

Hi all,
I really have this as an open question with no hidden agenda. We're currently building one of the very best Hibs teams I've ever seen. Lots of potential and lots of real experience. Do you think we're doing this on an even financial keel now that we've dealt with infrastructure issues and given the supporter contributions via ST sales etc or are we speculating a bit here in the hope that we continue this feel good feeling?
I'd love to know if, as far as we know, this standard is quite sustainable?
Thanks

[brianmc]

Nah,I reckon we're spending way above our means, clearly banking on reaching the champions league - and if we don't, we're F knackered!!

Seriously though, what a strange OP.

So far we're several players lighter than we were, as a championship team, last year and you ask if we're spending beyond our means?

[Leith Green]

For once we started at the point of having a decent squad . We are obviously now able to bring in better quality and not in such a rush to make signings..

[heidtheba]

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Nah,I reckon we're spending way above our means, clearly banking on reaching the champions league - and if we don't, we're F knackered!!

Seriously though, what a strange OP.

So far we're several players lighter than we were, as a championship team, last year and you ask if we're spending beyond our means?

Apologies - I thought I made it clear that this was a genuine 'open' question and not a dig at the club in any way. I always hoped that once the infrastructure was sorted then we could spent the income properly, this looks like it's happening that way. I just wanted to see what the residents on here thought.

That's all.

[Col2]

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Hi all,
I really have this as an open question with no hidden agenda. We're currently building one of the very best Hibs teams I've ever seen. Lots of potential and lots of real experience. Do you think we're doing this on an even financial keel now that we've dealt with infrastructure issues and given the supporter contributions via ST sales etc or are we speculating a bit here in the hope that we continue this feel good feeling?
I'd love to know if, as far as we know, this standard is quite sustainable?
Thanks

Hi ya pal.

Great OP. And thanks for sharing concern about our financial position.

Maybe we should be signing non league players who have had spells at Vauxhall Motors just like your club, sorry I meant the yams 😉🤡

We are doing just fine.

[weecounty hibby]

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For once we started at the point of having a decent squad . We are obviously now able to bring in better quality and not in such a rush to make signings..

That's a good point. For the first time in a long long time we don't have to build a team. We have the bones of a really good side already with the guys who have resigned and all we need to do is add a few high quality players. Our good cup runs recently and the frankly astounding average attendance last year with higher again this year looks like allowing us to pay higher signing on fees and wages than probably everyone except Celtic and the Huns. Onwards and upwards for the Hibees

[heidtheba]

Wow - I never thought that a serious question would have been met with such ridicule.

Just for reference I've been a season ticket holder at Hibs in multiple years and a member on here since 2009. What I was really hoping for was a simple 'Yes, I think the club's now being run well and we're now more able to fund a really great team on the park given the income we generate'.

Admins, please feel free to delete this as people are taking it the wrong way and I really didn't intend that to happen.

[Deansy]

Nope - RP did say that once the redevelopement of ER was complete then the next stage was putting a team on the field to match the stadium. Think that's what's happening now - fasten your seat-belts coz it's going to be wild !

[hibs0666]

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Hi all,
I really have this as an open question with no hidden agenda. We're currently building one of the very best Hibs teams I've ever seen. Lots of potential and lots of real experience. Do you think we're doing this on an even financial keel now that we've dealt with infrastructure issues and given the supporter contributions via ST sales etc or are we speculating a bit here in the hope that we continue this feel good feeling?
I'd love to know if, as far as we know, this standard is quite sustainable?
Thanks

The guunts saw their turnover increase by £2.9 million, from £7 million to £9.9 million, on their return to the top league.

Our last reported turnover, for the cup winning season (I just love typing that), was £7 million. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that our turnover will increase to over £9 million next season.

This means that we will be able to afford a wage bill in the region of £5 million - up by a third on what we were able to pay in the season when we won the cup.

So yes, the standard of player we are aiming for is perfectly in line with the improved financial performance we are seeing at the club.

[MyJo]

I don't believe we are living beyond our means.

We have minimal debt
complete stadium and training ground both fully paid for and owned by the club
record level of season ticket holders
great attendances where we have (genuinely) sold out games several times over the last couple of seasons
lots of money spinning cup runs & wins
money from winning the championship
guaranteed TV income from being back in the premiership
up to 6 category A games at easter road in the coming season
strong sponsorship deals & partnerships
an engaged fanbase spending money on merchandise
Players of genuine quality in the squad with real value that will ultimately bring several million pounds into the club when they move on
A strong batch of youngsters working thier way through the academy.

The club is in a fantastic place at long last and we got here without spending money we dont have.

[Leith Green]

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The guunts saw their turnover increase by £2.9 million, from £7 million to £9.9 million, on their return to the top league.

Our last reported turnover, for the cup winning season (I just love typing that), was £7 million. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that our turnover will increase to over £9 million next season.

This means that we will be able to afford a wage bill in the region of £5 million - up by a third on what we were able to pay in the season when we won the cup.

So yes, the standard of player we are aiming for is perfectly in line with the improved financial performance we are seeing at the club.

Lets not forget we are also out of the cycle of having to pay off dud signings and poor managers every year, that will also help the budget quite a bit

[Lee Marvin]

Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!

[WhileTheChief..]

Why's the OP getting such a hard time? Oh no, he might be a Hearts fan, jings crivens.

On topic, I don't think we wouldn't be doing anything that endangers the club at all. Living well within our means.

I agree we're building a decent squad and this is one of the best times I can remember being a Hibs fan. Long may it continue.

[Billy Whizz]

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Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!

Premiership, not the SPL

[jacomo]

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Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!

Ever rising attendances plus Hampden pay days has meant being in the Championship has not been ruinous. Hibs even turning in slight profits despite big investment in playing squad, backroom and development teams. Maintaining top league prices has helped of course.

Scottish Cup win worth a lot on its own of course.

HSL also helping. Yes we are paying off loan to STF but additional money also going into playing squad.

We have not been over-extending ourselves but we have spent increased income well.

This means we go into the summer in a really strong position. Good squad with a budget to strengthen where needed.

[Greencore]

If all else fails we could tempt fans with chips.

All the big teams are doing it.

[mca]

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I don't believe we are living beyond our means.

We have minimal debt
complete stadium and training ground both fully paid for and owned by the club
record level of season ticket holders
great attendances where we have (genuinely) sold out games several times over the last couple of seasons
lots of money spinning cup runs & wins
money from winning the championship
guaranteed TV income from being back in the premiership
up to 6 category A games at easter road in the coming season
strong sponsorship deals & partnerships
an engaged fanbase spending money on merchandise
Players of genuine quality in the squad with real value that will ultimately bring several million pounds into the club when they move on
A strong batch of youngsters working thier way through the academy.

The club is in a fantastic place at long last and we got here without spending money we dont have.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!

Petrie...

[Speedway]

The metric is 60% of turnover should go on wages for the entire club as a maximum.

If we're doing about £8m this year then that's about £5.4m in wages so no, I don't think we've got an overspend concern based on those rough numbers.

[Hfcwilson3192]

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Wow - I never thought that a serious question would have been met with such ridicule.

Just for reference I've been a season ticket holder at Hibs in multiple years and a member on here since 2009. What I was really hoping for was a simple 'Yes, I think the club's now being run well and we're now more able to fund a really great team on the park given the income we generate'.

Admins, please feel free to delete this as people are taking it the wrong way and I really didn't intend that to happen.

It's actually embarrassing how some folk have reacted to what a thought was a decent question haha we are signing players who were previously on double figure wages. I can't imagine they've all tane wage cuts to come to us. Never knew so much board of directors had accounts on hibs forms either lol

[Ozyhibby]

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The guunts saw their turnover increase by £2.9 million, from £7 million to £9.9 million, on their return to the top league.

Our last reported turnover, for the cup winning season (I just love typing that), was £7 million. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that our turnover will increase to over £9 million next season.

This means that we will be able to afford a wage bill in the region of £5 million - up by a third on what we were able to pay in the season when we won the cup.

So yes, the standard of player we are aiming for is perfectly in line with the improved financial performance we are seeing at the club.

Our turnover for last season will likely be over £8m even though we were still in the championship. Massively increased crowds and income from Cup winning merchandising etc will have given the figures a boost.


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[CMurdoch]

Hibs

Don't have to finance any large costly infrastructure projects
Don't have to pay of duff players or management staff
Have a wage structure within our means
Have an interest free loan of £4 million which is being paid back at £500k per season which is well within our means.
This season we will have a record number of season ticket holders of at least 13,000 with correspondingly high average attendances, circa 17,500.
The supporters own almost a third of the club shareholding and this will continue to rise.
Have £4 million of assets in McGinn and Cummings with both on reasonable length contracts.

In conclusion the club has never ever been in better financial shape

[AgentDaleCooper]

i did some spectacularly amateur maths the other night, and figured that if we were usually getting 8-9k STs, and are looking like we could be getting over 12k, that's pretty much an extra million in the bank each season - that'll go a long way. if the top earners earn...and i'm picking a figure out me erse here...but 2.5k a week, that's over 7 wages covered, or 5 plus a couple of big signing on fees. it's basically the equivalent to selling one of our best players in terms of windfall...if we are able to keep this up, the upward spiral will truly keep going, as all we have to spend money on now is the team on the pitch. very exciting times IMO.

all of the above is probably complete rubbish, but it's very nice to be able to think about these things with such optimism

[TrinityHibs]

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I don't believe we are living beyond our means.

We have minimal debt
complete stadium and training ground both fully paid for and owned by the club
record level of season ticket holders
great attendances where we have (genuinely) sold out games several times over the last couple of seasons
lots of money spinning cup runs & wins
money from winning the championship
guaranteed TV income from being back in the premiership
up to 6 category A games at easter road in the coming season
strong sponsorship deals & partnerships
an engaged fanbase spending money on merchandise
Players of genuine quality in the squad with real value that will ultimately bring several million pounds into the club when they move on
A strong batch of youngsters working thier way through the academy.

The club is in a fantastic place at long last and we got here without spending money we dont have.

Thats all well and good but I have genuine concerns about the quality of the chips

[heidtheba]

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It's actually embarrassing how some folk have reacted to what a thought was a decent question haha we are signing players who were previously on double figure wages. I can't imagine they've all tane wage cuts to come to us. Never knew so much board of directors had accounts on hibs forms either lol

Thank you - was utterly horrified at some responses.
My 'take' on things were we were now about to real the rewards of doing things correctly. We have (and will always be) a selling club, but at least we now don't have to sell in order to fund infrastructure. I don't understand how share options work and whether we have to pay out an amount of profit to shareholders, I know we still have some debt but that all seems serviceable.
I hoped I'd simply get clarification of that 'Football Manager' nirvana of only having to focus on financing the team on the field (and the manager and Leeann). It seems like we're spending properly now. As many said before, we have a good basis for a team and don't need an overhaul. I actually look at the Fyvie situation as a strong one, more along the lines of we offer what we want given the amount he might play, rather than desperately cling on to on of the (in seasons past) few good players we had - can you imagine this scenario in the Fenlon/Butcher era?
It's great to think that this is the standard we can be looking forward to for the forseeable. Efe's signing caught me by surprise, didn't expect to get him on two years, and, with the possible exception of Sercombe (who I simply don't know much about) we seem to be filling spaces with real quality all over the shop. We've spent significant cash on a manager, Leeann, Swanson, Efe, have recently given good contracts to Cummings and McGinn AND still seem to be looking at Whittaker - that's a lot of cash. Great to think that finally this is what we can be doing, in a sustainable way with the infrastructure sorted - the kind of thing that lot over the road should have done when they 'had cash' (owed it to themselves/Lady Haig etc etc).
THIS is the moment I've been waiting for for a long time. I remember discussing Hearts purchase of Neil McCann, Jim Hamilton and some other pretty decent player at a time when we were in for at least McCann and had to go down the route of people like Jamie McQuilken etc because we were paying for stands and they weren't.
In summary, all I was really hoping for was 'yep, this is us for the future'.
Thanks to those who answered that.

[Keith_M]

Hibs will not be taking on any new debt, and frankly they don't need to.

Season Ticket sales are at an unprecedented level, we just had out highest average league attendance in 44 years (despite not having a single game against the uglies or Hearts), we already have a completed stadium with fantastically kitted out main stand(unlike hearts), we own our own training centre(ditto) and will now have the boost of much higher income from being in the Premier League*.


Also the club is now roughly 33% owned by the fans or fans groups, due to the ongoing share issue, Hearts, on the other hand, have not released one single share under their share issue and still have no concrete date set for such an event.


What's not to like?



* 'The Premiership' is a name lazily nicked from the English leagues due to the SPFL's lack of imagination and I refuse to use that term.

[Drumlanrig]

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Hi ya pal.

Great OP. And thanks for sharing concern about our financial position.

Maybe we should be signing non league players who have had spells at Vauxhall Motors just like your club, sorry I meant the yams 😉🤡

We are doing just fine.

Calm down pal , have you missed your medication?

The guy asked a perfectly reasonable question that has prompted some good discussion.

[Dashing Bob S]

We will now have almost double the average attendances we had two years ago.

[Smartie]

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We will now have almost double the average attendances we had two years ago.

I was quietly concerned 2 years ago.

Our finances have always been well run but it looked to me like we were taking a bit of a gamble to get back into the top flight.

Until the cup win our attendances hadn't been great for a few years.

I couldn't work out how we were going from signing the crap that we had been signing year on year in the Premier League to getting players like Fyvie, McGeouch, McGregor, Fontaine and McGinn to play for us in the Championship. Given the pedigree that these players had before joining Hibs, they can't have been bargain basement signings.

I had a quiet wee wtf to myself when we signed Stokes too, although since we were pushing Rangers quite close at that point I thought it was a risk worth taking.

I actually thought Lennon's spending for last season seemed a bit conservative, and had we failed to get promotion it might have backfired.

I am not concerned now though. We'll get a lift in revenue from being promoted and I'm sure our spending will be carefully budgeted for, even if we have to stick a few quid by for a rainy day.

[Col2]

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Calm down pal , have you missed your medication?

The guy asked a perfectly reasonable question that has prompted some good discussion.

This wasn't me who posted it. It's was my alter ego....

Still think our financial position is fine. And still think the OP was at it.

[heidtheba]

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This wasn't me who posted it. It's was my alter ego....

Still think our financial position is fine. And still think the OP was at it.

Nope - and I resisted the temptation to suggest that belittling someone for asking about financial security is far more yam mentality than not asking about it. I even thought I'd clearly said that it was a question asked without a hidden agenda. I apologise if it came across as stirring but it wasn't. I got the answer I wanted from those who replied thoughtfully. You are more that welcome to check back over my previous posts if you wish to check my credibility.