White sleeves

[ancient hibee]

My grandad always told me it was done to reduce the Irish Catholic influence.Swan wanted to ensure that Hibs was looked at as an entirely Scottish club.He invited the priests to pay for their tickets at the same time.

[weecounty hibby]

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Don't know the story behind Arsenal adopting the white sleeves but the story I was led to believe regards ourselves goes as follows...
Chapman had changed the strip and led Arsenal to 3 consecutive titles, first time in English football history.

Hibs had already decided to brighten our strip up by going from bottle green to emerald but chose to add the white sleeves in honor of Chapmans (a pround Scot and the Pride of the country at the time) achievement.

This is the story I was told and have always believed to be true. I was told that arsenal were originally an irish catholic club and therefore had some links to Hibs and that when Chapmans side had been so successful then Hibs changed their sleeves as a mark of respect

[Renfrew_Hibby]

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Herbert Chapman wasn't Scottish. Huddersfield won three consecutive championships in the 1920s, two of them under Herbert Chapman.

OK ok story I heard then was s h i t e

[heretoday]

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Yup. The New Zealand rugby squad really struggle with that.

Ha Ha! We're no All Blacks! But I take your point.

[Baader]

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Best strip in the world.

Indeed it is. Always had a soft spot for any other team that plays in green and white (with one notable exception...)

For such a naturally great colour match it's interesting to see how few teams worldwide actually play in green and white...

[Baader]

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This is the story I was told and have always believed to be true. I was told that arsenal were originally an irish catholic club and therefore had some links to Hibs and that when Chapmans side had been so successful then Hibs changed their sleeves as a mark of respect

Arsenal do have a big Irish contingent but probably most London clubs can claim that due to the Irish influence in the city. Certainly Highbury and especially neighbouring Finsbury Park had big Irish communities up until the mid '70s.

There's a proper old Irish boozer just up the road from The Emirates called The Auld Triangle which I used to frequent when I lived in the area. The famous Twelve Pins a bit further up the road on The Seven Sisters Road is another. Used to be in every Sunday as they showed Scottish football.

[malcolm]

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Arsenal do have a big Irish contingent but probably most London clubs can claim that due to the Irish influence in the city. Certainly Highbury and especially neighbouring Finsbury Park had big Irish communities up until the mid '70s.

There's a proper old Irish boozer just up the road from The Emirates called The Auld Triangle which I used to frequent when I lived in the area. The famous Twelve Pins a bit further up the road on The Seven Sisters Road is another. Used to be in every Sunday as they showed Scottish football.

Arsenal played in woolwich till 1913, founded by workers from an ammunitions factory with a scot prominent in their founding and with red the original colours... an Irish connection seems unlikely.. if there had been I'm sure Celtic fans would have claimed 'knees up mother brown' as their own anthem years ago

[Same Sleeves]

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Arsenal played in woolwich till 1913, founded by workers from an ammunitions factory with a scot prominent in their founding and with red the original colours... an Irish connection seems unlikely.. if there had been I'm sure Celtic fans would have claimed 'knees up mother brown' as their own anthem years ago

David Danskin a worker at the royal Arsenal from Burntisland Fife was the founder of Arsenal,he origanilly named the team Dial square fc and it was 3 ex Nottingham forest players who brought there old red kit with them when they moved south to work at the factory who determined the colour of the kit and the Irish connection is down to the Irish community's who moved to London to rebuild it after the war and the number of young Irishman who made it to the first team during the 70s
One of the most famous Arsenal songs is "Paddy got up and he sang it again,over and over and over again,bjesus said Paddy I sung it so well I think i'll get up and i'll sing it again" legend as it that it was first sung by Paddy on the terraces during the 1970 fairs cup win over Anderlecht

[--------]

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David Danskin a worker at the royal Arsenal from Burntisland Fife was the founder of Arsenal,he origanilly named the team Dial square fc and it was 3 ex Nottingham forest players who brought there old red kit with them when they moved south to work at the factory who determined the colour of the kit and the Irish connection is down to the Irish community's who moved to London to rebuild it after the war and the number of young Irishman who made it to the first team during the 70s
One of the most famous Arsenal songs is "Paddy got up and he sang it again,over and over and over again,bjesus said Paddy I sung it so well I think i'll get up and i'll sing it again" legend as it that it was first sung by Paddy on the terraces during the 1970 fairs cup win over Anderlecht

Would that be considered racist abuse of a minority these days? Has the world gone mad enough that Hibs fans couldn't sing it? The club being HIBERNIAN and having Irish roots and all?

[NAE NOOKIE]

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My grandad always told me it was done to reduce the Irish Catholic influence.Swan wanted to ensure that Hibs was looked at as an entirely Scottish club.He invited the priests to pay for their tickets at the same time.

Not sure how changing to white sleeves would have any effect on Hibs being perceived as Irish Catholic or not .... the strip would still be green & white, just with a wee bit less green in it.

This is like one of those art history programmes on BBC2 where every painting has to have a hidden meaning or agenda, where eventually you get to the stage where you begin to ask if it wasn't just the case that Leonardo Da Vinci thought Mona Lisa would be a fit bird tae paint or Van Gogh just liked the colour yellow ...... Couldn't it just be the case that Harry Swan saw Arsenal and though 'hmmm that's smart, I bet we would look good with white sleeves'

[AndyM_1875]

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My grandad always told me it was done to reduce the Irish Catholic influence.Swan wanted to ensure that Hibs was looked at as an entirely Scottish club.He invited the priests to pay for their tickets at the same time.

Story I was told was that all Swan did was ask the priests to apply for tickets. They still got them as comps.
This was due to Hibs getting bigger crowds and nothing more than that. Harry Swan may have been the first non Catholic to hold shares but he was a supporter and a Leither.
Also when Harry Swan took over Hibs, the club was a tired old looking club, Hibs had just come out of spending 2 years in Division 2, back when there were 16 teams in each league. First thing he did was get Easter Road painted and put bright green goal nets in. Then he changed the strip to the absolute classic we have worn mainly since 1938.
And after that you have the Famous Five....... it's a pretty good legacy.

[AndyM_1875]

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Would that be considered racist abuse of a minority these days? Has the world gone mad enough that Hibs fans couldn't sing it? The club being HIBERNIAN and having Irish roots and all?

Am sure Nick Horby's "Fever Pitch" refers to Arsenal away fans singing Irish songs during the George Graham era.

[Aalborg Hibs]

Spider Stacy from The Pogues is a massive Arsenal fan. Shane MacGowan is too....that might have something to do with the Irish songs.

[Kato]

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Story I was told was that all Swan did was ask the priests to apply for tickets. They still got them as comps.
This was due to Hibs getting bigger crowds and nothing more than that. Harry Swan may have been the first non Catholic to hold shares but he was a supporter and a Leither.
Also when Harry Swan took over Hibs, the club was a tired old looking club, Hibs had just come out of spending 2 years in Division 2, back when there were 16 teams in each league. First thing he did was get Easter Road painted and put bright green goal nets in. Then he changed the strip to the absolute classic we have worn mainly since 1938.
And after that you have the Famous Five....... it's a pretty good legacy.

He also appointed a priest as padre to the players. Hardly the of someone Anti-Catholic.

Wish idea seen those green nets.

[Bishop Hibee]

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Am sure Nick Horby's "Fever Pitch" refers to Arsenal away fans singing Irish songs during the George Graham era.

Indeed he does. Kilburn in north London has a big Irish population. Makes sense that a lot of them chose Arsenal as a team to support.

Green with white sleeves looks majestic.

[ancient hibee]

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He also appointed a priest as padre to the players. Hardly the of someone Anti-Catholic.

Wish idea seen those green nets.

Swan wasn't anti catholic but there were plenty people in Edinburgh who were .Swan didn't want Hibs thought of as a catholic club at a time when there were mobs marching against Catholics in Morningside of all places and Bailie John Cormack and his Protestant Action Neanderthals gearing up.

Thought you were in Italy.

[--------]

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Story I was told was that all Swan did was ask the priests to apply for tickets. They still got them as comps.
This was due to Hibs getting bigger crowds and nothing more than that. Harry Swan may have been the first non Catholic to hold shares but he was a supporter and a Leither.

Also when Harry Swan took over Hibs, the club was a tired old looking club, Hibs had just come out of spending 2 years in Division 2, back when there were 16 teams in each league. First thing he did was get Easter Road painted and put bright green goal nets in. Then he changed the strip to the absolute classic we have worn mainly since 1938.

And after that you have the Famous Five....... it's a pretty good legacy.

Absolutely, Andy. All he wanted was to know who was going to turn up each week so that no seat was left unoccupied.

Harry was one of the great men of Scottish football. He did so much for Hibernian, as you say, and he was also one of the small number of true visionaries who were responsible for the birth of European football in the immediate post-war years - he saw the sport as a potential healing influence in Europe after the disasters of the Second World War. That was the ideal behind the setting up of the European Champions' Cup, which Hibs played in during its inaugural season. There was a lot of opposition to the idea in the UK - Alan Hardaker refused to allow the English Champions, Chelsea, to play, and the SFA and most Scottish clubs weren't interested either. Harry Swan worked with people like Gabriel Hanot and Jacques Ferran to get the first tournament set up, and as I understand it, Hibs were invited to play as Scotland's representatives because of that.

I was too young, but my father was regularly at ER in those days, and he used to tell me that big matches - derbies, OF games, big Cup-ties and so on - were pretty well non-smoking affairs because the crowds were so packed on the terraces that no one could get into their pockets for their fags and matches. If only we could get back there ....

[--------]

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Swan wasn't anti catholic but there were plenty people in Edinburgh who were .Swan didn't want Hibs thought of as a catholic club at a time when there were mobs marching against Catholics in Morningside of all places and Bailie John Cormack and his Protestant Action Neanderthals gearing up.

Thought you were in Italy.

There still are, ancient. Just a wee bit less visible these days.

[Kato]

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Swan wasn't anti catholic but there were plenty people in Edinburgh who were .Swan didn't want Hibs thought of as a catholic club at a time when there were mobs marching against Catholics in Morningside of all places and Bailie John Cormack and his Protestant Action Neanderthals gearing up.

Thought you were in Italy.

Nup.

How does white sleeves move other peoples perception of Hibs away from being a Catholic club, whilst at the same time appoiting a Catholic priest as padre to the players? Swan has been portrayed as a bigot and "an orangeman" by others but if you look at his actions he was anything but.

[AndyM_1875]

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Nup.

How does white sleeves move other peoples perception of Hibs away from being a Catholic club, whilst at the same time appoiting a Catholic priest as padre to the players? Swan has been portrayed as a bigot and "an orangeman" by others but if you look at his actions he was anything but.

The only people who peddle that nonsense about Harry Swan are moon howling Sellik types who scrabble around looking for conspiracies at everything.

[Kato]

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The only people who peddle that nonsense about Harry Swan are moon howling Sellik types who scrabble around looking for conspiracies at everything.

The blowback being that some Hibs fans believe it too.

[AndyM_1875]

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The blowback being that some Hibs fans believe it too.

If true then I suggest they seek mental help.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Considering its very innocuous title, this thread has been a wee diamond. Learned loads i never knew.

As for our own white sleeves, id always thought it was just because arsenal were the top team, and the red body, white sleeves, white shorts combo just looked the part.

I know im biased, but i do still think ours is one of the best strips around, when it is done right.

[Purple & Green]

Rapid Vienna have a European strip this year, green with white sleeves inspired from their strip of the 1930. We had played Rapid a few years previous to this and indeed would play them again after we had introduced white sleeves. I think there’s something in that.

[heretoday]

The only reason that I started supporting Hibs was that they played in white sleeves. It just seemed like a groovy thing.

[Since452]

Green top with white sleeves is the best looking shirt in world football

[BILLYHIBS]

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Green top with white sleeves is the best looking shirt in world football

Looks even better under the lights on a European Night or beating the Hearts night or day even better

[oxymoron]

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Not sure how changing to white sleeves would have any effect on Hibs being perceived as Irish Catholic or not .... the strip would still be green & white, just with a wee bit less green in it.

This is like one of those art history programmes on BBC2 where every painting has to have a hidden meaning or agenda, where eventually you get to the stage where you begin to ask if it wasn't just the case that Leonardo Da Vinci thought Mona Lisa would be a fit bird tae paint or Van Gogh just liked the colour yellow ...... Couldn't it just be the case that Harry Swan saw Arsenal and though 'hmmm that's smart, I bet we would look good with white sleeves'

[Keith_M]

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Rapid Vienna have a European strip this year, green with white sleeves inspired from their strip of the 1930. We had played Rapid a few years previous to this and indeed would play them again after we had introduced white sleeves. I think there’s something in that.

They've played in green with white sleeves quite a lot.

That was actually their home strip shortly before I moved to Vienna and a lot of their fans still wore it to games.

[fat freddy]

Leonard Cohen explains everything in his classic 1974 track 'Leaving Greensleeves'
He puts himself in Harry Swans shoes and allows us an insight into his thoughts as he discarded the green sleeves.