Horse Racing (General)

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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And there were doubts about ADV's stamina too. Great ride to get him on the inside and give him the rail in the final furlong. Is he down for the St Leger?

St Leger betting.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm having a wee read of Robin Oakley's 'Britain and Ireland's top 100 racehorses of all time'. I remember Robin as the BBC political editor; it turns out he's a big racing fan, and it's a nice bit of light reading, covering both flat and jumps. His notable horses of rank:

1, Arkle
2, Frankel
3, Brigadier Gerard
4, Sea The Stars
5, Sea Bird
10, Red Rum
13, Nijinsky
14, Flyingbolt
17, Dancing Brave
20,L'Escargot
23, Dawn Run
31, Desert Orchid
32, Shergar
37, Denman
39, Mill House

Well worth a browse, if you haven't already done so.

[Pretty Boy]

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I'm having a wee read of Robin Oakley's 'Britain and Ireland's top 100 racehorses of all time'. I remember Robin as the BBC political editor; it turns out he's a big racing fan, and it's a nice bit of light reading, covering both flat and jumps. His notable horses of rank:

1, Arkle
2, Frankel
3, Brigadier Gerard
4, Sea The Stars
5, Sea Bird
10, Red Rum
13, Nijinsky
14, Flyingbolt
17, Dancing Brave
20,L'Escargot
23, Dawn Run
31, Desert Orchid
32, Shergar
37, Denman
39, Mill House

Well worth a browse, if you haven't already done so.

His book Sixty Years of Jump Racing is a great read as well.

Personally I've increasingly been persuaded that Sea The Stars may have been a superior horse to Frankel albeit not as visually stunning. I also like that he gives Kauto Star the credit he deserves, there appears a trend amongst some in racing to downplay just how brilliant he was.

By a different author I'd also recommend the book Dream Horse about Dream Alliance; there's a documentary on Netflix of the same name. It's just a great story.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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His book Sixty Years of Jump Racing is a great read as well.

Personally I've increasingly been persuaded that Sea The Stars may have been a superior horse to Frankel albeit not as visually stunning. I also like that he gives Kauto Star the credit he deserves, there appears a trend amongst some in racing to downplay just how brilliant he was.

By a different author I'd also recommend the book Dream Horse about Dream Alliance; there's a documentary on Netflix of the same name. It's just a great story.

I will take a look, PB, in addition to Oakley's book on jump racing.

Talked about the book with my dad, who isn't happy his all time favourite, Nijinsky, is rated thirteenth by Oakley. "If there's ever been a better horse on the flat, I'm a Hearts man" is his view, along with "put Frankel up for a triple crown, then we'll talk" . He's also miffed that Dessie is ranked 'only' 31. "You're telling me there has been thirty better than the great grey"? I think Dessie won him a big wedge over the years, hence the unwavering loyalty.

[Pretty Boy]

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I will take a look, PB, in addition to Oakley's book on jump racing.

Talked about the book with my dad, who isn't happy his all time favourite, Nijinsky, is rated thirteenth by Oakley. "If there's ever been a better horse on the flat, I'm a Hearts man" is his view, along with "put Frankel up for a triple crown, then we'll talk" . He's also miffed that Dessie is ranked 'only' 31. "You're telling me there has been thirty better than the great grey"? I think Dessie won him a big wedge over the years, hence the unwavering loyalty.

Tbh I'd rate Dessie higher as well; above both Red Rum and Kauto Star and, as you can maybe tell, I loved Kauto.

Dessie was able to carry huge weights (12 stone 3lbs in the Racing Post Chase and 12 stone in the Irish National) and could win of level weights, won over 2 miles right up to 3 miles 2f and won a Gold Cup on ground he despised. He was my Grandads favourite and we were at Kempton, I was 4 or 5, when he fell in his final race. The winner, The Fellow, got a decent ovation but Dessie got up, after a nasty, tired fall, and raised the roof when he cantered past the stands thinking he had won. I've never seen a reception like it since for a beaten horse.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Tbh I'd rate Dessie higher as well; above both Red Rum and Kauto Star and, as you can maybe tell, I loved Kauto.

Dessie was able to carry huge weights (12 stone 3lbs in the Racing Post Chase and 12 stone in the Irish National) and could win of level weights, won over 2 miles right up to 3 miles 2f and won a Gold Cup on ground he despised. He was my Grandads favourite and we were at Kempton, I was 4 or 5, when he fell in his final race. The winner, The Fellow, got a decent ovation but Dessie got up, after a nasty, tired fall, and raised the roof when he cantered past the stands thinking he had won. I've never seen a reception like it since for a beaten horse.

Very few (perhaps only Red Rum) ever enjoyed the love of the public in the way Desert Orchid did. His last race, which you mention. The old boy was past his best but still adored and cheered the most:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Very few (perhaps only Red Rum) ever enjoyed the love of the public in the way Desert Orchid did. His last race, which you mention. The old boy was past his best but still adored and cheered the most:

I never witnessed that but, I've mentioned it before, the reception Persian Punch used to get at York was amazing for a flat horse. There's something special about being at a racecourse when a horse doesn't win but, you can feel the love flowing down from the stands. Non punters just won't get it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I never witnessed that but, I've mentioned it before, the reception Persian Punch used to get at York was amazing for a flat horse. There's something special about being at a racecourse when a horse doesn't win but, you can feel the love flowing down from the stands. Non punters just won't get it.

I've just watched a few of his races on You Tube. He really was a crowd favourite, and it's as if the cheers got him across the line on a couple of occasions! Desert Orchid seems incomparable to me in terms of public adoration in my lifetime, as Red Rum was before my time. Perhaps Altior or Tiger Roll are next in line for that title? However, not even Tiger Roll, with his back-to-back Nationals seems to captivate the public as Rummy and Dessie did. I remember my dad being genuinely moved when the death of each was announced, as if an old friend had passed on. As you said, you probably have to be a racing fan to understand.

[ekhibee]

It's always interesting to hear different peoples opinions about horse racing, whether it's flat or jumps. The 2 best flat horses, for me, were Ribot, the brilliant unbeaten Italian horse who won the King George and the Arc amongst other Grade 1 races, and Secretariat, the legendary American horse who was almost a freak of nature.

Over the jumps I would have chosen Moscow Flyer and Sprinter Sacre, for different reasons.

All about opinions, it's fascinating reading others opinions even if they don't agree with mine!

[heretoday]

Dettori is going through the card at Ascot today. Four so far including the Gold Cup.

The people who present ITV racing are total prats unfortunately!

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Dettori is going through the card at Ascot today. Four so far including the Gold Cup.

The people who present ITV racing are total prats unfortunately!

You can't say that about Francesca! Ed Chamberlain is a right royal sycophant and throbber, though.

[heretoday]

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You can't say that about Francesca! Ed Chamberlain is a right royal sycophant and throbber, though.

I find the programme completely cringe-making. Great sport though!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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You can't say that about Francesca!

She knows her stuff too, easier to forgive than Big Mac when she gets it wrong! 😍

[Bangkok Hibby]

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It's always interesting to hear different peoples opinions about horse racing, whether it's flat or jumps. The 2 best flat horses, for me, were Ribot, the brilliant unbeaten Italian horse who won the King George and the Arc amongst other Grade 1 races, and Secretariat, the legendary American horse who was almost a freak of nature.

Over the jumps I would have chosen Moscow Flyer and Sprinter Sacre, for different reasons.

All about opinions, it's fascinating reading others opinions even if they don't agree with mine!

For me I have great memories of two horses in particular. Istabraq for his 3 Champion hurdle victories, and Arazi for his 1991 Breeders cup juvenile success. For those of you who haven't seen it I urge you to have a look on youtube. It's like something from a Hollywood movie.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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For me I have great memories of two horses in particular. Istabraq for his 3 Champion hurdle victories, and Arazi for his 1991 Breeders cup juvenile success. For those of you who haven't seen it I urge you to have a look on youtube. It's like something from a Hollywood movie.

Istabraq was magnificent, I remember being in the pub for its final Champion Hurdle, I said to my mate after 1 flight it wouldn't get round, it was an unpleasant watch.

[Pretty Boy]

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Istabraq was magnificent, I remember being in the pub for its final Champion Hurdle, I said to my mate after 1 flight it wouldn't get round, it was an unpleasant watch.

Charlie Swan looked after him that day and pulled him up pretty quickly, 2 or 3 hurdles iiirc. He almost certainly would have won 4 CHs had it not been for foot and mouth cancelling the Festival in 2001.

If anyone does Facebook there is an account for Istabraq with a few pictures and updates from his retirement. He lives with J P McManus at Martinstown stud.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Charlie Swan looked after him that day and pulled him up pretty quickly, 2 or 3 hurdles iiirc

That's what happened, still a great shame that he couldn't go down on his sword. IIRC the course broke out into a round of applause, NH racing down to a tee.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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That's what happened, still a great shame that he couldn't go down on his sword. IIRC the course broke out into a round of applause, NH racing down to a tee.

Yes



Was he just over the hill at this point, or was something wrong?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Yes



Was he just over the hill at this point, or was something wrong?

PB might have more details, I Cannae really remember, after 1 hurdle I thought something was wrong though.

[Pretty Boy]

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Yes



Was he just over the hill at this point, or was something wrong?

He'd won the Festive Hurdle at Leopardstown in the December prior to the Festival. However his form in the calendar year read F1F1 and then pulled up at Cheltenham so he was likely on the downward curve.

You can often find old BHA stewards reports online and the one for that race states the jockey reported Istabraq 'lost action after the 1st and never travelled' and a veterinary exam found 'the horse to be lame in the back and a further exam reveled stretched back muscles'.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

And there we have it, sometimes my memory still functions correctly! 😁

[Hibernia&Alba]

What is the next big meeting?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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What is the next big meeting?

The Eclipse meeting @ Sandown.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The Eclipse meeting @ Sandown.

How many days is that meeting?

Do you think Enable will be just as good again? If so, I don't see how she is beaten.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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How many days is that meeting?

Do you think Enable will be just as good again? If so, I don't see how she is beaten.

5-6 July. She must have every chance, amazingly she's rated a pound below Too Darn Hot (as is Crystal Ocean) which is hard to believe.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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5-6 July. She must have every chance, amazingly she's rated a pound below Too Darn Hot (as is Crystal Ocean) which is hard to believe.

She's currently 11/4 with Betfair, which I think I will take, in the hope she is just as strong as last year. I'd like to take Anthony Van Dyke each way, given I backed him in the Derby and previously, but I think 1m 2f might be too short a trip for him at this level.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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She's currently 11/4 with Betfair, which I think I will take, in the hope she is just as strong as last year. I'd like to take Anthony Van Dyke each way, given I backed him in the Derby and previously, but I think 1m 2f might be too short a trip for him at this level.

7/2 @ Bet365.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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She's currently 11/4 with Betfair, which I think I will take, in the hope she is just as strong as last year. I'd like to take Anthony Van Dyke each way, given I backed him in the Derby and previously, but I think 1m 2f might be too short a trip for him at this level.

The only race she has ever lost was over 10f, worth considering.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The only race she has ever lost was over 10f, worth considering.

Right cheers. As she hasn't raced since last November, there's always that element of doubt. Hopefully she's as good as in 2018.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Sad to read that Blue Point has been retired to stud, some horse.