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  1. #841
    As I suspected Clan Des Obeaux is going to Punchestown.

    Minella Indo also entered. It's a cracking field.


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  3. #842
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    21 day ban for Havlin. Deliberately holds his horse up around the final bend.

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  4. #843
    @hibs.net private member Hiber-nation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    21 day ban for Havlin. Deliberately holds his horse up around the final bend.

    Dreadful. Glad I didn't have anything on it.

  5. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    21 day ban for Havlin. Deliberately holds his horse up around the final bend.

    I just watched that race. Not Havlin's brightest moment and he's got form for doing it before. 21 days isn't nearly long enough IMO.

  6. #845
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    I just watched that race. Not Havlin's brightest moment and he's got form for doing it before. 21 days isn't nearly long enough IMO.
    Well exactly. He's effectively been banned for throwing a race i.e. cheating. Why is that only a 21 day ban? He should be absolutely hammered for race fixing.
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  7. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Well exactly. He's effectively been banned for throwing a race i.e. cheating. Why is that only a 21 day ban? He should be absolutely hammered for race fixing.
    He's come out and said he rode to instruction. He was explicitly told by Gosden not to use the whip, not to give the horse a hard ride and only to ride using hands and heels.

    It's obviously not great for punters but it does happen. I know Oliver Sherwood regularly told Leighton Aspell not to be hard on horses on their 1st or 2nd time at a racecourse, particularly in bumpers. He wanted them to enjoy the experience and be eager to return there.

    If you take Havlin at close to face value it's arguably not riding the horse to achieve the best possible position and could be seen as public schooling but I'm not sure it's cheating. I don't have too much issue with his action at the turn for home, he was on the heels of the horse in front and held his horse up to take the inside line up the rail and try to get a clear run. The lack of 'effort' inside the final furlong is what the stewards have taken issue with and even if his explanation is understandable, it's unsatisfactory. 3 weeks without work is a pretty hefty punishment.

  8. #847
    I see the "trainer's representative" was there, just to make sure he kept his gob shut. Every trainer knows the rules about public schooling, but I would be very interested in another statistic- just how many times has Havlin actually beaten Dettori when they're both riding for the same trainer?
    Last edited by ekhibee; 22-04-2021 at 10:14 PM.

  9. #848
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    He's come out and said he rode to instruction. He was explicitly told by Gosden not to use the whip, not to give the horse a hard ride and only to ride using hands and heels.

    It's obviously not great for punters but it does happen. I know Oliver Sherwood regularly told Leighton Aspell not to be hard on horses on their 1st or 2nd time at a racecourse, particularly in bumpers. He wanted them to enjoy the experience and be eager to return there.

    If you take Havlin at close to face value it's arguably not riding the horse to achieve the best possible position and could be seen as public schooling but I'm not sure it's cheating. I don't have too much issue with his action at the turn for home, he was on the heels of the horse in front and held his horse up to take the inside line up the rail and try to get a clear run. The lack of 'effort' inside the final furlong is what the stewards have taken issue with and even if his explanation is understandable, it's unsatisfactory. 3 weeks without work is a pretty hefty punishment.
    PB, surely the bottom line is Havlin's horse could have won that race easily, given just a normal ride. Those who backed his horse have been cheated. If the trainers are involved, hammer them as well. 21 days for cheating seems very lenient to me. That was race was basically fixed so Dettori would win.
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  10. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    PB, surely the bottom line is Havlin's horse could have won that race easily, given just a normal ride. Those who backed his horse have been cheated. If the trainers are involved, hammer them as well. 21 days for cheating seems very lenient to me. That was race was basically fixed so Dettori would win.
    I don't like it but it's the reality of what goes on. I believe the jockey when he says he was riding to instruction, it's a sad fact that he would probably be less likely to get work in the future if he had defied the instructions and drawn the whip on that horse.

    I think Havlins biggest mistake was making it so obvious what he was doing. As said above trainers know the rules about public schooling but they still do it, they usually get awaw with it too.
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  11. #850
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Well exactly. He's effectively been banned for throwing a race i.e. cheating. Why is that only a 21 day ban? He should be absolutely hammered for race fixing.
    I was more than happy with his ride on Murhib @ Chelmsford earlier this evening.

  12. #851
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Frankel's full sister (Chiasma) runs in the 1610 @ Sandown tomorrow, may be worth keeping an eye on.

  13. #852
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY View Post
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    Frankel's full sister (Chiasma) runs in the 1610 @ Sandown tomorrow, may be worth keeping an eye on.
    Could only finish 3rd.

  14. #853
    @hibs.net private member Mikey_1875's Avatar
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    Kittys light robbed there!

  15. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_1875 View Post
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    Kittys light robbed there!
    Yep, best horse in the race. At least the 'winner' was rightly disqualified.

  16. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    Yep, best horse in the race. At least the 'winner' was rightly disqualified.
    Such a daft rule though. Allowing the second placed horse who was never ever winning the race, to win it makes zero sense. If they were adamant without interference that the horse would’ve finished ahead of the culprit, then it should be awarded the race. That would obviously need a rewritten rule, but the current situation is all over the place.

  17. #856
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    What are we all doing at Punchestown? **** it, I'm going money, hoose and life on Honeysuckle.
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  18. #857
    I said to the boys when they were around for Cheltenham that I wouldn’t be surprised if Rachel picks up the ride on Envoi Allen, thought it might’ve been next season but on board for Tuesday at Punchestown, this year the Grand National and next season the Gold cup, not bad eh!?

  19. #858
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs1972 View Post
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    I said to the boys when they were around for Cheltenham that I wouldn’t be surprised if Rachel picks up the ride on Envoi Allen, thought it might’ve been next season but on board for Tuesday at Punchestown, this year the Grand National and next season the Gold cup, not bad eh!?
    Do you think he'll get the better of Monkfish? What a great clash on the first day.
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  20. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Do you think he'll get the better of Monkfish? What a great clash on the first day.
    Yes, I can just see Rachel sitting in behind Monkfish and Coolreevy and pounce in between last two fences, race of the year as far as I’m concerned.

  21. #860
    Looking forward to this one. Monkfish strong in the betting.
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  22. #861
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Looking forward to this one. Monkfish strong in the betting.
    How good was Colreevy there! Led from from the first to the last. It looks like she's retiring (currently pregnant) and will finish unbeaten over fences. Envoi Allen had throw in the towel with a couple of fences left, and Monkfish couldn't lay a glove on her. Brilliant performance against two top class rivals.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 27-04-2021 at 05:45 PM.
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  23. #862
    @hibs.net private member Mikey_1875's Avatar
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    Thought Monkfish looked a clear winner until his stumble but I do wonder if he would have caught Colreevy in the end. Envoi disappointing I don’t think he looked comfortable at all

  24. #863
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_1875 View Post
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    Thought Monkfish looked a clear winner until his stumble but I do wonder if he would have caught Colreevy in the end. Envoi disappointing I don’t think he looked comfortable at all
    I honestly don't think he would; Monkfish looked very tired in the run in. Colreevy galloped them into the ground. The winning margin was eight lengths.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 27-04-2021 at 05:53 PM.
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  25. #864
    @hibs.net private member Mikey_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    I honestly don't think he would; Monkfish looked very tired in the run in. Colreevy galloped them into the ground.
    It was certainly a very impressive run regardless! Sad to hear if that does end up her last race

  26. #865
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Excellent performance from Chacun Pour Soi today also.

    A couple of terrible falls in the cross country race there. The favourite literally did a full flip and landed with legs in the air. Hopefully all are safe and well.
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  27. #866
    Colreevy has always been a smart mare but that was something special.

    It's not uncommon when a mare is in foal, they don't want anyone else near them!

  28. #867
    https://www.racenet.com.au/news/repo...-runs-20210427

    This is quite an interesting report coming out of Australia that has been largely overlooked in the UK and Ireland. It will certainly impact trainers looking to go and raid the likes of the Melbourne Cup in future.

  29. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    PB, surely the bottom line is Havlin's horse could have won that race easily, given just a normal ride. Those who backed his horse have been cheated. If the trainers are involved, hammer them as well. 21 days for cheating seems very lenient to me. That was race was basically fixed so Dettori would win.
    I thought 21 days was excessive. I’ve seen far worse rides than that receive no punishment this season already. Not his finest by any means, but was unlucky to be blocked off on the turn, and as PB said only questions to answer (which he apparently has) were in the final furlong. I’m not convinced it would have “won easily” under the whip and there’s reasons the whip aren’t drawn to the same degree on some horses, particularly younger ones and debutants.

    I’m not saying he’s blameless or that he shouldn’t have got it up. But I was expecting a lot worse when I heard the length of the ban before seeing the race replay.

  30. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    How good was Colreevy there! Led from from the first to the last. It looks like she's retiring (currently pregnant) and will finish unbeaten over fences. Envoi Allen had throw in the towel with a couple of fences left, and Monkfish couldn't lay a glove on her. Brilliant performance against two top class rivals.
    Too bad to be true from Envoi Allen there, jumped 1st few fences a bit big but then looked to be travelling well most of way and jumping better, wasn’t surprised when reported it finished lame, ultimately the fall aside its 1 bad run with a legitimate excuse, I’ve certainly not lost the faith, hopefully a summer out in the field and he’ll return to his best next season.

  31. #870
    Just watched the Punchestown Gold Cup this morning.

    Certainly a worthwhile decision by Nicholls to supplement CDO. Was quite surprised to see him turn in the burners quite early and try to outstay Al Boum Photo but it worked like a treat. He maybe started to tie up a bit in the last 100 yards but he was always winning.

    I think it's good to see Cheltenham not being the be all and end all for every horse as well.
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