Grant Holt

[RIP Bestie]

it's unbearable at times to read some of the posts on here.
Let me make something very clear. Grant Holt is a very very good player. He has played at a level that most of our players can only aspire to. I don't post a lot on here because it's obvious that the majority of posters on here have never played at any level of football so it's pointless getting involved in some of the s@@@ that is said. I despair at some of the stuff that has been said about Holt and the same posters will laud praise on the likes of Stevenson and Boyle.
This is the problem with the Hibs support. We accept mediocrity but when we sign a player that can and actually has done something in the game we expect that he can perform miracles. Grant Holt will do what he is good at very very well. It's up to Lennon to play players and a system that suits that style of play. Lennon signed him he should be getting the best out of him.

[Centre Hawf]

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it's unbearable at times to read some of the posts on here.
Let me make something very clear. Grant Holt is a very very good player. He has played at a level that most of our players can only aspire to. I don't post a lot on here because it's obvious that the majority of posters on here have never played at any level of football so it's pointless getting involved in some of the s@@@ that is said. I despair at some of the stuff that has been said about Holt and the same posters will laud praise on the likes of Stevenson and Boyle.
This is the problem with the Hibs support. We accept mediocrity but when we sign a player that can and actually has done something in the game we expect that he can perform miracles. Grant Holt will do what he is good at very very well. It's up to Lennon to play players and a system that suits that style of play. Lennon signed him he should be getting the best out of him.

So is Holt good or is it Lennons fault? Who do I boo?

[Col_0762]

I love Tommy McIntyre

[RIP Bestie]

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So is Holt good or is it Lennons fault? Who do I boo?

What do you think?
Boo who you want.
I know what I would respect

[Captain Trips]

For what its worth Holt IMO has been average for us, I do not give a toss about what level any signing played at before. Its what is done while here that counts.

Holt is judged as a Hibs player not a Norwich striker from a few years ago. We have signed players who have also played at a high level and been dross.

[RIP Bestie]

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For what its worth Holt IMO has been average for us, I do not give a toss about what level any signing played at before. Its what is done while here that counts.

Holt is judged as a Hibs player not a Norwich striker from a few years ago. We have signed players who have also played at a high level and been dross.

Youre not getting it.
He was signed to do a specific job.
Who's fault is it that the way he has played all his days doesn't fit into what we can do as a team?

[Captain Trips]

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Youre not getting it.
He was signed to do a specific job.
Who's fault is it that the way he has played all his days doesn't fit into what we can do as a team?

I think I do get it but since I have not played the game at any level I must be beneath discussion with you.

If you can indulge me what is it Lennon wants him to do that is so different from his career thus far?

[Swedish hibee]

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it's unbearable at times to read some of the posts on here.

If we all thought the same- we'd be living in North Korea.

ps. I think he's a donkey. Sorry.

[Unseen work]

Forgetting his past, if we had signed him from say Morton and he put in the same performances would you be happy?

He has scored 3 goals and were at the half way stage of the season.

He should score a lot more.

[Captain Trips]

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Forgetting his past, if we had signed him from say Morton and he put in the same performances would you be happy?

He has scored 3 goals and were at the half way stage of the season.

He should score a lot more.

Apparently it is down to Lennon not operating the right system for him to flourish. Again fwiw I think he is ok player but the reason he has scored 3 goals is his own fault.

[RIP Bestie]

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Apparently it is down to Lennon not operating the right system for him to flourish. Again fwiw I think he is ok player but the reason he has scored 3 goals is his own fault.

Really? His own fault?
What do you see his game is and what do you think Lennon signed him to do?

[Scouse Hibee]

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it's unbearable at times to read some of the posts on here.
Let me make something very clear. Grant Holt is a very very good player. He has played at a level that most of our players can only aspire to. I don't post a lot on here because it's obvious that the majority of posters on here have never played at any level of football so it's pointless getting involved in some of the s@@@ that is said. I despair at some of the stuff that has been said about Holt and the same posters will laud praise on the likes of Stevenson and Boyle.
This is the problem with the Hibs support. We accept mediocrity but when we sign a player that can and actually has done something in the game we expect that he can perform miracles. Grant Holt will do what he is good at very very well. It's up to Lennon to play players and a system that suits that style of play. Lennon signed him he should be getting the best out of him.

I stopped reading when I got to the pish about posters not playing at any level of football. It's pointless getting into a discussion with you as you are clueless as to the knowledge of a football supporter.

[BSEJVT]

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Really? His own fault?
What do you see his game is and what do you think Lennon signed him to do?

Excellent another top class coach whose opinion is the only one worth listening too.

There's a lot I like about Holt but the simple fact is that he was signed as a striker

His goal scoring record is abysmal and he now panics when he gets a sight of goal.

There are 2 possibilities here IMO:

1) Either he is playing well below the expected standard

or

2) More worryingly, Lennon hasn't a clue what he is doing

There is no way that we should have been signing a non scoring forward (even if his only role was to bring other into the game)

Our midfield has an appalling shooting record, let alone scoring record and signing the greatest link up player in the world (which Holt hasn't shown me he is) wasn't going to change that.

The fact that he is in and out the team would tend to lend credence to the idea that Lennon hasn't got what he thought he was getting

[Colr]

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For what its worth Holt IMO has been average for us, I do not give a toss about what level any signing played at before. Its what is done while here that counts.

Holt is judged as a Hibs player not a Norwich striker from a few years ago. We have signed players who have also played at a high level and been dross.

We've signed players with a good track record before. They do nothing at Hibs, move on and do OK again. It's been the same problem under quite a few managers now, loads of pressure but not enough goals.

I blame the gypsy curse.

[bingo70]

I agree with the general point the op is making however the unnecessary argumentative style of it confuses me.

If you're too knowledgeable about football to discuss it with us amateurs why bother starting the thread?

[andyf5]

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I agree with the general point the op is making however the unnecessary argumentative style of it confuses me.

If you're too knowledgeable about football to discuss it with us amateurs why bother starting the thread?

Perhaps the time of the original post is a clue to the thread and the words....

[Captain Trips]

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Really? His own fault?
What do you see his game is and what do you think Lennon signed him to do?

Hmmmmm score goals and set up goals probably being likely but having not played the game wtf do I know.

[neil7908]

Sorry but he's not done anywhere near enough in the games I've seem him.

He wins the odd header and lays off a few passes but I think his legs are gone now.

I really think some fans are gradually forgetting the standard of teams we're up against. He's a centre forward who has only scored 3 goals in half a season playing against part timers!

As another poster alluded to this but if he was an unheard of signing from a lower league team I suspect there would be nowhere near as much patience offered.

[IanM]

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it's unbearable at times to read some of the posts on here.
Let me make something very clear. Grant Holt is a very very good player. He has played at a level that most of our players can only aspire to. I don't post a lot on here because it's obvious that the majority of posters on here have never played at any level of football so it's pointless getting involved in some of the s@@@ that is said. I despair at some of the stuff that has been said about Holt and the same posters will laud praise on the likes of Stevenson and Boyle.
This is the problem with the Hibs support. We accept mediocrity but when we sign a player that can and actually has done something in the game we expect that he can perform miracles. Grant Holt will do what he is good at very very well. It's up to Lennon to play players and a system that suits that style of play. Lennon signed him he should be getting the best out of him.

calm down Grant, some of us like you

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Playing to a decent level or not the stats tell the true story - he has scored 3 goals so far!

If the team were scoring goals for fun and he had something like 10 assists then I would perhaps agree with the OP but the fact is we are struggling to score a sufficient amount of goals to see us win this league comfortably.

FWIW - Stephen Dobbie is closer to the kind of stats we require from a striker with 10 goals and 4 assists so far this season. Even Paul Cairney has more goals from midfield!

[Col_0762]

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Hmmmmm score goals and set up goals probably being likely but having not played the game wtf do I know.

He never has and never will be a 20 goal a season type centre forward. He's big and awkward and there to ruffle a few feathers and try and bring others into the game. It's not pretty to watch at times but he does a job and Cummings for example has commented on how much he enjoys playing with him and how much he's learned from him. That's a big part of his signing, to help bring on the others who are a bit younger and less experienced. He moaned a few times at Cummings at the weekend for being too far away from him at goal kicks. He's playing as well as trying to coach, for like of a better word, during games. Like I say, not pretty to watch at times, but he's contributing a lot more than meets the eye. If you're going to judge him on goals alone or assists, that's extremely unfair on Holt. His game is the part about two or three stages before goals are scored. Occasionally, he'll get on the end of things as a Brucey bonus.

[Captain Trips]

I never said he was a 20 goal a season player, but I do thank you for the lesson on what people don't see me being one then.

[Col_0762]

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Playing to a decent level or not the stats tell the true story - he has scored 3 goals so far!

If the team were scoring goals for fun and he had something like 10 assists then I would perhaps agree with the OP but the fact is we are struggling to score a sufficient amount of goals to see us win this league comfortably.

FWIW - Stephen Dobbie is closer to the kind of stats we require from a striker with 10 goals and 4 assists so far this season. Even Paul Cairney has more goals from midfield!

We're struggling to win games because the like of Cummings' finishing is shocking. I love Jason, but he needs 10 attempts in a game to score. What was the chance he had in the first half like, one on one, needs to slide it past the keeper and he lifts it chest high, straight at the goalkeeper. It's pathetic and been a problem the last two or three years now. Imagine what his stats would be like if he took his chances? And he's not the only one, Boyle and Keatings are as guilty. When any of them are one on one are you confident we'll score? We need them to not over think it. Just finish the chances. Obviously that comes with confidence etc but our goal to chance ratio I would imagine is extremely low and is a big reason we're still in this league and a big reason we're hitting the skids again just now. We should have been three up after 25 minutes on Saturday. But our finishing let us down. They should be staying for an hour after training just finishing. Maybe they are mind you, I don't know, but it looks to me like they aren't. Even things like controlling the ball with their weaker foot. How many times did Cummings give the ball away trying to control the ball with his left foot rather than his right? He makes it awkward for himself. Just flung that pet hate in at the end since I wrote a novel lol. But you know what I mean. I can't even mind what ****ing point I was trying to male now haha.

[Col_0762]

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I never said he was a 20 goal a season player, but I do thank you for the lesson on what people don't see me being one then.

It's not a lesson. You don't have to be a ****er about it. I just made a few comments having seen him play over the years and commented on things his team mates have said about him. Football fans have always not seen certain things a player does for his manager. And will continue to do so forever. We see them once a week for 90 minutes and if we don't get immediate results we slate them. Sometimes the wider picture needs to be looked at, that's all. Smile man, it's Christmas.

[Captain Trips]

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We're struggling to win games because the like of Cummings' finishing is shocking. I love Jason, but he needs 10 attempts in a game to score. What was the chance he had in the first half like, one on one, needs to slide it past the keeper and he lifts it chest high, straight at the goalkeeper. It's pathetic and been a problem the last two or three years now. Imagine what his stats would be like if he took his chances? And he's not the only one, Boyle and Keatings are as guilty. When any of them are one on one are you confident we'll score? We need them to not over think it. Just finish the chances. Obviously that comes with confidence etc but our goal to chance ratio I would imagine is extremely low and is a big reason we're still in this league and a big reason we're hitting the skids again just now. We should have been three up after 25 minutes on Saturday. But our finishing let us down. They should be staying for an hour after training just finishing. Maybe they are mind you, I don't know, but it looks to me like they aren't. Even things like controlling the ball with their weaker foot. How many times did Cummings give the ball away trying to control the ball with his left foot rather than his right? He makes it awkward for himself. Just flung that pet hate in at the end since I wrote a novel lol. But you know what I mean. I can't even mind what ****ing point I was trying to male now haha.

We are struggling to score more because the play in the final 3rd is woeful. From crossing to killer passes all the forward thinking players have let us down more often than done well. I again like Holt but regardless of what anyone says on here about him, I have been watching football long enough to understand plenty and on the whole Holt has been a let down as have lots of others.

I find this being told look he is doing stuff you dont see etc very patronising. Holt should have scored more goals in this league.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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We're struggling to win games because the like of Cummings' finishing is shocking. I love Jason, but he needs 10 attempts in a game to score. What was the chance he had in the first half like, one on one, needs to slide it past the keeper and he lifts it chest high, straight at the goalkeeper. It's pathetic and been a problem the last two or three years now. Imagine what his stats would be like if he took his chances? And he's not the only one, Boyle and Keatings are as guilty. When any of them are one on one are you confident we'll score? We need them to not over think it. Just finish the chances. Obviously that comes with confidence etc but our goal to chance ratio I would imagine is extremely low and is a big reason we're still in this league and a big reason we're hitting the skids again just now. We should have been three up after 25 minutes on Saturday. But our finishing let us down. They should be staying for an hour after training just finishing. Maybe they are mind you, I don't know, but it looks to me like they aren't. Even things like controlling the ball with their weaker foot. How many times did Cummings give the ball away trying to control the ball with his left foot rather than his right? He makes it awkward for himself. Just flung that pet hate in at the end since I wrote a novel lol. But you know what I mean. I can't even mind what ****ing point I was trying to male now haha.

Some good points made in here, some I've been making for.a few seasons now. Nothing ever seems to change.

[BSEJVT]

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We're struggling to win games because the like of Cummings' finishing is shocking. I love Jason, but he needs 10 attempts in a game to score. What was the chance he had in the first half like, one on one, needs to slide it past the keeper and he lifts it chest high, straight at the goalkeeper. It's pathetic and been a problem the last two or three years now. Imagine what his stats would be like if he took his chances? And he's not the only one, Boyle and Keatings are as guilty. When any of them are one on one are you confident we'll score? We need them to not over think it. Just finish the chances. Obviously that comes with confidence etc but our goal to chance ratio I would imagine is extremely low and is a big reason we're still in this league and a big reason we're hitting the skids again just now. We should have been three up after 25 minutes on Saturday. But our finishing let us down. They should be staying for an hour after training just finishing. Maybe they are mind you, I don't know, but it looks to me like they aren't. Even things like controlling the ball with their weaker foot. How many times did Cummings give the ball away trying to control the ball with his left foot rather than his right? He makes it awkward for himself. Just flung that pet hate in at the end since I wrote a novel lol. But you know what I mean. I can't even mind what ****ing point I was trying to male now haha.

If Cummings finishing is shocking how does he score the number of goals he does?

What does that say about Holts finishing given their respective scoring rates / ratios?

I don't mind Holt at all but I have to say the major disappointment I have with him is his complete lack of composure when presented with a chance.

Some of his attempts have been absolutely woeful.

[Col_0762]

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We are struggling to score more because the play in the final 3rd is woeful. From crossing to killer passes all the forward thinking players have let us down more often than done well. I again like Holt but regardless of what anyone says on here about him, I have been watching football long enough to understand plenty and on the whole Holt has been a let down as have lots of others.

I find this being told look he is doing stuff you dont see etc very patronising. Holt should have scored more goals in this league.

But we're still making chances? Look at the chances first half at the weekend; Cummings, Commons, Shinnie and Gray I think it was. Four near as hell sitters. Take even two of them and the game is over. That's where the problem lies with me. No one is trying to patronise you I don't think, we all want the same things but Holt doesn't miss nearly half the chances others do.

[Captain Trips]

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It's not a lesson. You don't have to be a ****er about it. I just made a few comments having seen him play over the years and commented on things his team mates have said about him. Football fans have always not seen certain things a player does for his manager. And will continue to do so forever. We see them once a week for 90 minutes and if we don't get immediate results we slate them. Sometimes the wider picture needs to be looked at, that's all. Smile man, it's Christmas.

What's the wider picture then? What is going here that we are not seeing? I am not on his back but I expect more from him and the forwards and I am right to as we currently sit 2nd. If we were top and the forwards were flying then fine but we are not therefore I blame the manager and some of the players for not converting chances or setting up chances, Holt is one.

[HibbyAndy]

I like Holt.