Full Back positions

[macca70]

Have been saying it all season, the reason Rangers and Hearts strolled this league is due to the attacking threat from the full Back positions; Tavernier & Wallace and Patterson.

As per yesterday, our fullbacks have very little defensive responsibility.

Stevenson and Gray offer nothing going forward, Stevenson had at least half a dozen chances in the 2nd half to go past a man and get to the bye line or put in a decent cross but wasted so many decent opportunities.

This has to be changed, in January we need to bring in full backs that offer more in attack.

Everything was coming down Stevensons side in the 2nd half yesterday, it was baffling that Lennon decided to take off Gray and not change things on the Left side.

[matty_f]

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Have been saying it all season, the reason Rangers and Hearts strolled this league is due to the attacking threat from the full Back positions; Tavernier & Wallace and Patterson.

As per yesterday, our fullbacks have very little defensive responsibility.

Stevenson and Gray offer nothing going forward, Stevenson had at least half a dozen chances in the 2nd half to go past a man and get to the bye line or put in a decent cross but wasted so many decent opportunities.

This has to be changed, in January we need to bring in full backs that offer more in attack.

Everything was coming down Stevensons side in the 2nd half yesterday, it was baffling that Lennon decided to take off Gray and not change things on the Left side.

One of my mates thinks the reason we have so much of the play down the left hand side in most games is that teams are happy to let us have it there because we invariably waste the final ball.

I'm certain if i was an opposition manager I'd be happy enough for us to have the ball out there and be fairly confident that we could defend the balls coming in.

[Carheenlea]

Given our style of play, the full back positions are two of our most key positions, but our regular fullbacks are nowhere near our two best players in the team.

[greiggy]

Stevenson seems to have an aversion to the bye line. Numerous opportunities to take the ball there yesterday and every time he cut inside into a mass of defenders instead. Seemed to have little confidence taking his man on. Boyle did a bit better when he moved out there late second half. But too late really.


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[HairyBrain]

Wallace and Taverner more so showed that in this league the defensive side is not so important. As much as I've been chuffed with Boyles form up front would be happy to give him a run in one of those positions. Direct, with pace to burn. Left hand side has been an issue for years though.

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[MB62]

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One of my mates thinks the reason we have so much of the play down the left hand side in most games is that teams are happy to let us have it there because we invariably waste the final ball.

I'm certain if i was an opposition manager I'd be happy enough for us to have the ball out there and be fairly confident that we could defend the balls coming in.

In his ten plus years at the club, Lewis has perfected the art of not getting the ball past the first defender when trying to cross the ball. Still, he is young enough and plenty time to practice and rectify that in training

[wookie70]

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In his ten plus years at the club, Lewis has perfected the art of not getting the ball past the first defender when trying to cross the ball. Still, he is young enough and plenty time to practice and rectify that in training

Lewis was very poor again in the attacking half but he actually put quite a few decent crosses in from watching the game again on Hibs TV. Gray was far worse in my opinion. The only player who has a good success rate with his crosses seems to be Holt and he should be the one on the other end of them. Lots of Hibs crosses are not as bad as you think as the strikers seem unable to get across their man and are often found hiding just behind the defender who clears. Very difficult to cross a ball to a man standing behind a defender. Graham is excellent at getting in front of his man and getting a header or flick towards goal but that is difficult to do sitting in a tracksuit on the bench. No idea why he doesn't get more game time.

[Dashing Bob S]

Our game relies heavily on wing backs. The problem is that both those guys are at, or approaching, veteran stage and it's asking a lot to see them bombing up and down the flanks attacking and defending. They are blowing out their ***** in second half and vulnerable to threats from pacy wide opposition players.

Stubbs ignored this, while Lennon has partly nodded to the need for width by retaining Harris.

It's very hard to make these criticisms given both LS and DG's now legendary status at the club, but I think it's a valid one.

[HappyAsHellas]

It is incredibly annoying that our 2 best crossers of the ball are Holt and Keatings as in an ideal world they should be on the end of the bloody things. Lewis is never ever going to hit the bye line anytime soon and Gray's crossing is pretty woeful as well. I think it was Cruyff (sp) who said make sure the oppositions worst player gets lots of the ball. Maybe this is why Lewis gets more than his fair share. I thought NL would have swapped Harris for Lewis as at least he would have been on his preferred side. We have to sort something out pretty quickly as we've had this problem for years now and yet no manager wants to address it. Baffling.

[J-C]

As much as I like Stevenson and Gray, they are just not god enough to do the job being asked of them. They are both good proper fullbacks but lack the desired talent to be good wingbacks, there has to come a time when we either get rid or change the way we play so as we have proper wingers playing in the wide areas.

[Enough said]

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Our game relies heavily on wing backs. The problem is that both those guys are at, or approaching, veteran stage and it's asking a lot to see them bombing up and down the flanks attacking and defending. They are blowing out their ***** in second half and vulnerable to threats from pacy wide opposition players.

Stubbs ignored this, while Lennon has partly nodded to the need for width by retaining Harris.

It's very hard to make these criticisms given both LS and DG's now legendary status at the club, but I think it's a valid one.

Veteran stage in there careers... amazing how they still can't beat the first man with cross.

[BoomtownHibees]

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Our game relies heavily on wing backs. The problem is that both those guys are at, or approaching, veteran stage and it's asking a lot to see them bombing up and down the flanks attacking and defending. They are blowing out their ***** in second half and vulnerable to threats from pacy wide opposition players.

Stubbs ignored this, while Lennon has partly nodded to the need for width by retaining Harris.

It's very hard to make these criticisms given both LS and DG's now legendary status at the club, but I think it's a valid one.

They are both only 28. Quite a bit to go until I would class them as "veterans"

[Dashing Bob S]

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They are both only 28. Quite a bit to go until I would class them as "veterans"

That was a predictive text error. I meant to say 'veterinarian' stage, as they had to handle Houston's sick animals.

[Unseen work]

With our current formation it's not even fullbacks they are playing, it's as midfielders.

If we played 442 with wingers then fair enough I would be happy as they do have an attacking threat.

But as wingers in a 352 they have to be better offensively.

Like someone mentioned Boyle could play this well or even Crane?

I suspect in January we will be looking for more powerful and skilful players in the winger and striker positions

[Winston Ingram]

Gray and Lewis are fullbacks and not wingers.

The difference between us, Hearts and Sevco is they had wide players in front of their fullbacks which gave them far more support than ours get.

Lewis and DG have been our sole suppliers of width for 2 and a half years as a result of that ridiculous diamond system and the 3-5-2 and it's probably the main reason we're still in this division

[Danderhall Hibs]

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One of my mates thinks the reason we have so much of the play down the left hand side in most games is that teams are happy to let us have it there because we invariably waste the final ball.

I'm certain if i was an opposition manager I'd be happy enough for us to have the ball out there and be fairly confident that we could defend the balls coming in.

He talks a lot of sense.

[matty_f]

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He talks a lot of sense.

Not usually.

[BSEJVT]

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One of my mates thinks the reason we have so much of the play down the left hand side in most games is that teams are happy to let us have it there because we invariably waste the final ball.

I'm certain if i was an opposition manager I'd be happy enough for us to have the ball out there and be fairly confident that we could defend the balls coming in.

I am of the same opinion as your mate, but would go a step further and say that certainly Falkirk on Saturday were happy to allow crosses into the box from either side / concede corners as they knew we had very little threat from them.

We haven't for years and years and IMO this is one of the reasons we find ourselves where we do.

All of this makes the events of 21/05/2016 even more of a fairytale.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

We must have put 30 crosses in to the box so to suggest its the crossers fault alone, IMO is utter garbage. Movement surely has to be better.

I'd question though, why crosses were such a focal point of our attack against a side that A) Were down to 10 men and planned to sit deep B) Seem to thrive on the physical approach

If we moved the ball quicker and drew the players out of position then space would have been created to get in behind, instead we were either too slow and predictable or directed to play that way from management, as i said it's something i feel is a strange tactic to employ in the circumstances.

Not to get too bogged down by it though, QOTS on Saturday and Dun Utd away the week after. 6 points please and we're back on track

[matty_f]

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We must have put 30 crosses in to the box so to suggest its the crossers fault alone, IMO is utter garbage. Movement surely has to be better.

I'd question though, why crosses were such a focal point of our attack against a side that A) Were down to 10 men and planned to sit deep B) Seem to thrive on the physical approach

If we moved the ball quicker and drew the players out of position then space would have been created to get in behind, instead we were either too slow and predictable or directed to play that way from management, as i said it's something i feel is a strange tactic to employ in the circumstances.

Not to get too bogged down by it though, QOTS on Saturday and Dun Utd away the week after. 6 points please and we're back on track

I think it's night on impossible to play through a team at Falkirk's level that just park the bus in the way that they did. You're effectively asking players to find space where there is none.

Our movement could have been better but we tried different routes to attack, it wasn't all down the flanks - we tried several times to create overloads and space in different areas through the final third.

The final ball let us down a lot, but Falkirk also defended very tightly, and when we did get through, their keeper did his job.

You make a good point about it not all being the crosser's fault. Stevenson in particular got the ball in a great position a couple of times -especially in the second half -only to have either one person, or nobody at all, to aim for with his cross.

We need players getting into the box in situations like that, it's not a coincidence what when we did have others joining in, Hanlon scored.

I actually think tactically we were good, the performance up until the final ball was very strong. We totally dominated the ball, created plenty of chances and Falkirk barely got out of their own half.

It was shocking defending for their goal, and a lack of quality with our final ball that stopped us winning. Had either of those been better, it would have been a very comfortable three points for us.

[JDHibs]

Stevenson and Gray are being played out of position. They are full backs, always have been, always will be. They are being asked to go against what they know and suddenly become wing backs.

It doesnt work. You cant blame them for this as it isnt their fault they are being asked to do this. They are good solid full backs, nothing more. They will never suddenly turn into marauding wing backs that can get past full backs, get to the byline or into the box and put decent crosses in. If Lennons wants to persist on playing like this, we will need to sort this.

Falkirk forced us down their right because Muirhead had the making of Stevenson and if they did get a cross in they knew the chances of it being a good one were low. Gray done nothing in the 2nd half.

Falkirk defended excellently and got their tactics spot on, time waste, spoil play, professional fouls and force us down the wings so their centre backs could deal with it. Holt was barely in the box and in open play we had Shinnie and Boyle against 2 big centre backs.

We were too slow. Too predictable, too easy to read and too easy to defend against.

Ironic of Lennon to come out and say we werent creative enough when he kept telling the players to go down the wings then put Cummings on instead of Graham. Graham is a great player when you are firing in 2 crosses a minute. Poor substitutions. Why did he wait until the 70th minute to change things? We had 5 defenders on the park. 3 Centre backs looking after Lee ******* Miller who cant run!!!!

[jdships]

Ah well , " normal service resumed "
" Lewis must go "
A few short months ago Gray was the hero etc now it's " Taxi for Gray "
That's football I suppose with 11 players and subs + a manager V 16000 critics
keep it going guys gives us all a laugh and entertainment !!r

[Carheenlea]

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Ah well , " normal service resumed "
" Lewis must go "
A few short months ago Gray was the hero etc now it's " Taxi for Gray "
That's football I suppose with 11 players and subs + a manager V 16000 critics
keep it going guys gives us all a laugh and entertainment !!r

I don't see what's funny about looking at our team and discussing weak positions and how we deal with it.

[Smartie]

Stevenson and Gray are great players with minor weaknesses.

Lennon will earn his salt with us based on finding a system that plays to their strengths and not their weaknesses.

We DO NOT need to replace these players. We need to find a formation and other players that complement them and help them play to their strengths.

They are a couple of the best fullbacks in the country, superb defensively and decent enough going forward. They are not wingbacks or wide midfielders and they're getting hung out to dry playing there.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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One of my mates thinks the reason we have so much of the play down the left hand side in most games is that teams are happy to let us have it there because we invariably waste the final ball.

I'm certain if i was an opposition manager I'd be happy enough for us to have the ball out there and be fairly confident that we could defend the balls coming in.

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It is incredibly annoying that our 2 best crossers of the ball are Holt and Keatings as in an ideal world they should be on the end of the bloody things. Lewis is never ever going to hit the bye line anytime soon and Gray's crossing is pretty woeful as well. I think it was Cruyff (sp) who said make sure the oppositions worst player gets lots of the ball. Maybe this is why Lewis gets more than his fair share. I thought NL would have swapped Harris for Lewis as at least he would have been on his preferred side. We have to sort something out pretty quickly as we've had this problem for years now and yet no manager wants to address it. Baffling.

This is what I have been saying on here for years, even in the seasons before we were relegated ..... I would bet a million quid that if the stats were available you would find that Lewis Stevenson has had possession of the ball more than any other Hibs player and my theory has always been that its because opposition managers are happy to let him have it simply because he cant beat a man and he is an at best average crosser of the ball.

Stevenson more than any other player is the 'out ball' when Hibs play from the back and I seriously think its because opposition players are told to stand off him and let him have it .... if he gets it in his own half you are guaranteed he will invariably play it back the way or sideways into midfield ..... if he gets it in the final third opposition players know he wont beat the fullback and will either hit him with his cross, put in an easy to defend ball from deeper or pass it sideways back to a midfield player with 4 defenders in front of him.

I am not having a go at Lewis here, he has never been a wingback and never will be ..... if you look at the currant buns the one thing they did have were two full backs who were capable of beating their man and who both had pace, as I recall Wallace was the one player in the SPL back in the day who could match Ivan Sproul in that area.
Its pretty incredible that for a club who have used a system that relies heavily on wingbacks for years now we have not moved heaven and earth to find one with pace or trickery .... in fact given the league we are in we would be better looking for a Mickey Weir than a David Murphy if you ask me.

[J-C]

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Stevenson and Gray are great players with minor weaknesses.

Lennon will earn his salt with us based on finding a system that plays to their strengths and not their weaknesses.

We DO NOT need to replace these players. We need to find a formation and other players that complement them and help them play to their strengths.

They are a couple of the best fullbacks in the country, superb defensively and decent enough going forward. They are not wingbacks or wide midfielders and they're getting hung out to dry playing there.

The 2 formations which allow them to play as defensive fullbacks is either 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1

[Smartie]

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The 2 formations which allow them to play as defensive fullbacks is either 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1

Yep. We should, imo, be playing one of these formations.

[JDHibs]

Problem with the 2 formations posted above is, they rely on wide players, which we wont have any bar Harris.

Hence, why we currently use our full backs as wing backs because we dont have anyone else in midfield or attack who can do it.

[jacomo]

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As much as I like Stevenson and Gray, they are just not god enough to do the job being asked of them. They are both good proper fullbacks but lack the desired talent to be good wingbacks, there has to come a time when we either get rid or change the way we play so as we have proper wingers playing in the wide areas.

What??

They are both living Gods and the shrine I have been building since late May is proof.

[Diclonius]

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Problem with the 2 formations posted above is, they rely on wide players, which we wont have any bar Harris.

Hence, why we currently use our full backs as wing backs because we dont have anyone else in midfield or attack who can do it.

Which makes you wonder why we haven't actually signed proper wingers for what seems like 8 or 9 years.