Scotland

[blackpoolhibs]

Pinched from twitter.

I know last night was terrible but Sunday at home to San Marino is a huge game for us, if we can somehow nick a point it would mean we are safe from relegation to the Eurovision Song Contest for another year.

[SingaporeHibs]

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Said it before and I'll say it again, at boys football level we've coaches who prefer big strong boys over small more skilful boys. Yet, isn't it amazing that we are so poor at centre forward and central defence, positions that typically require big strong laddies. Why is that?

You are absolutely correct to look at the coaches of boys clubs. The style has generally not changed for 30 odd years I’ve experienced it. From when I played to watching the boys now. The whole system needs overhauled from bottom to top. There are some great coaches out there and they spend all their life dedicated to the kids but unfortunately there are still too many idiots involved.
Even at the pro level, they sweep the net out wide and bring kids in but teach them nothing about how to play the game. We’ve created a culture that isn’t allowing kids to play and I mean just play. Get a ball and express themselves. Everything is over engineered. Training drill after drill is like watching robots do a, b, c......etc. Hour after hour of these drills and they get on a field to play a match and what do you get, sideways, sideways, backwards, Long diagonal to absolutely no one. The structure breaks down and it’s just horrific stuff. The ability to play the game properly is lost. It’s very sad.
My oldest is nearly 17, never seen Scotland in a major tournament. When I was growing up that was unthinkable. We might have been gutted to miss the odd World Cup (USA 1994 and then 1998 onwards of course) but otherwise we were always there previously.
There is no blame on technology because that’s not just happened in Scotland. The structure is broken and the SFA are at fault, 100%.
The SFA have been the custodian of our game and have dramatically failed our kids and our nation. The old firm, if I started on their failings I could be writing all night. Our game is at an all time low, failure to sell the top league, failure in Europe, failure to invest in kids, failure to ditch the rangers, failure failure failure.

[Here’s Lucy!]

Scotland 0 San Marino 1

[Billy Whizz]

So what’s the update on who Scotland will meet in the semi playoffs, and possible final play off
Thought both would be at home, but heard something on radio earlier, said if we made the final it would be away?

[660]

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Pinched from twitter.

I know last night was terrible but Sunday at home to San Marino is a huge game for us, if we can somehow nick a point it would mean we are safe from relegation to the Eurovision Song Contest for another year.

~*~*~*~ top bantz ~*~*~*~

[Sir David Gray]

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So what’s the update on who Scotland will meet in the semi playoffs, and possible final play off
Thought both would be at home, but heard something on radio earlier, said if we made the final it would be away?

It's looking like Norway, Serbia, Bulgaria and Scotland.

[Billy Whizz]

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It's looking like Norway, Serbia, Bulgaria and Scotland.

Thanks
So play one of the other 3, play the winners of the other semi, in the final, all being well
How do they decide where the final is played?

[Sir David Gray]

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Thanks
So play one of the other 3, play the winners of the other semi, in the final, all being well
How do they decide where the final is played?

They're apparently deciding that next month once they know all the teams.

[theonlywayisup]

Thought I would resurrect this thread to see if people agree that things are certainly improving since the OP in November 2016, or not. I then noticed PB's summary that I thought was good to share on this thread.

I agree with all that PB states and isn't it about time we ripped up what we're doing and put in place a sustainable plan to improve the nation's footballing capability, having been out-classed by a nation of 4 million.

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Youth football is a huge issue for our ongoing failings. I've argued for years that professional clubs taking boys out of their club teams at 11 or 12 years old to 'develop' then helps no one in terms of football ability. It won't change though because it is entirely motivated by money, no one wants the next £2M player to end up at their rivals.

I'd argue a bigger issue is the quality of coaching though. It's hard to say this because it essentially ends up as a dig at guys giving up their own time for little to no compensation but it doesn't make it any less true. The SFA coaching pathway is rightly lauded at the higher levels but at the formative stages it's a joke. There is no accountability or assessment, turn up, nod your head and get a certificate to say you can coach children and teenagers. I done the next stage of the goalkeeper pathway during lockdown and it was all online. Watch a few videos, answer a few questions and click the mouse a few times. I'm now further qualified. Mental. Even going back to when I started the first course had guys there who should never have been awarded a qualification. They couldn't run through basic drills, struggled to answer simple questions and showed no ability to lead a session. 6 hours later they had shiny certificates and were off to coach goalkeepers up to 16 years old.

We need to remove the competitive element completely at the formative stages for young players. It just encourages bad coaches and pushy parents to do all the wrong things. I regularly watch a couple of youth teams train. One guy is horrendous. The other week after months without football he had young lads of about 10 or 11 running shuttles and was barking about fitness. They haven't played for months, give them a ****ing ball. He then lined them up in s straight line and had them make a 5 yard pass before spinning to the back of the line. He was receiving the pass. What's the point in that session? He gets 10 times as many touches as any of the players and what are they learning? On the flip side I regularly pass the all weather pitch Lochend train on and they look like they put together good sessions with loads of the ball, it can be done. Equally a couple of girls teams train near me and their sessions look very football orientated. Mini games, passing and moving and a lot of smiling and laughing. Maybe removing the macho element makes things more productive?

The point about facilities is well made as well. People hate plastic pitches but in Scotland they are a necessity for youth teams to train year round and there aren't enough of them and they are expensive to hire. A few of the cage pitches dotted about the schemes that kids could use for free as and when they wanted would be a good investment. Even if it didn't produce a single player, it's still a good societal investment.

Nothing will change though because money is at the forefront of every decision makers mind.

[The Modfather]

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Thought I would resurrect this thread to see if people agree that things are certainly improving since the OP in November 2016, or not. I then noticed PB's summary that I thought was good to share on this thread.

I agree with all that PB states and isn't it about time we ripped up what we're doing and put in place a sustainable plan to improve the nation's footballing capability, having been out-classed by a nation of 4 million.

We’re two years into a new presidency at the SFA. Have we heard anything about the presidents vision or what his plans are? Or should we just continue to expect silence, keep doing as we have unsuccessfully done for the last 20 or 30 years and hope tournaments continue to be expanded, giving us a better chance of qualifying?

[Jones28]

What happened to project Brave? Is that out the window now that Mackay has gone?

[Peevemor]

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What happened to project Brave? Is that out the window now that Mackay has gone?

I'm guessing it will have been put on hold when the academies were closed for Covid.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Under clarke we have made progress. If we fair to qualify for the world cup, then we can start talking about ripping things up.

[Jones28]

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I'm guessing it will have been put on hold when the academies were closed for Covid.

Yes of course, no surprise there. Didn’t even cross my mind.

However, what were its aims and ambitions? When were results expected?

[theonlywayisup]

When I started this thread way back in 2016, Scotland were very poor IMO. However, almost six years on, I'd say last night was as good a performance that I've seen for a long time against a good side, albeit missing their most influential player.

I recall talking to a well-respected boys coach about a decade ago, who told me that there was a good crop of young boys coming through the ranks, with improvements being made at all levels of boys football all the way to the elite teams. If I'm being honest, I was a bit dismissive. However, are we starting to see a better crop of players coming through.

We seem to have better more influential youngsters in the team - Hickey was excellent when he came on, Patterson is still very young and already has 20+ caps, Hendry was excellent, Gilmour didn't even get on the pitch. Add that players like Tierney, Fraser, Armstrong, McKenna, McTominay, Christie etc who are all playing for teams in the Premier League.

That said, we're lucky to have our 'imports' in Adams and Dykes as we they greatly enhance our team. We're also very lucky to have a manager like Steve Clarke - he knows how to build a team.

Let's hope that this is just the start

[Allant1981]

Actually thought hickey improved us in that area, can't fault any of the players last night and hopefully they give a similar performance at the weekend

[ronaldo7]

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When I started this thread way back in 2016, Scotland were very poor IMO. However, almost six years on, I'd say last night was as good a performance that I've seen for a long time against a good side, albeit missing their most influential player.

I recall talking to a well-respected boys coach about a decade ago, who told me that there was a good crop of young boys coming through the ranks, with improvements being made at all levels of boys football all the way to the elite teams. If I'm being honest, I was a bit dismissive. However, are we starting to see a better crop of players coming through.

We seem to have better more influential youngsters in the team - Hickey was excellent when he came on, Patterson is still very young and already has 20+ caps, Hendry was excellent, Gilmour didn't even get on the pitch. Add that players like Tierney, Fraser, Armstrong, McKenna, McTominay, Christie etc who are all playing for teams in the Premier League.

That said, we're lucky to have our 'imports' in Adams and Dykes as we they greatly enhance our team. We're also very lucky to have a manager like Steve Clarke - he knows how to build a team.

Let's hope that this is just the start

All the boys want to play for the team these days. Back then we had players pulling out in favour of their club that you don't see now. I thought it took a while for the atmosphere to ramp up last night, hopefully Saturday will be louder. Patterson going of helped us imo, hickey gave us more cover down that side at they were overloading the left, and we were lucky not to lose something in the first half. Second half was superb with everyone doing their job.

Looking forward to Saturday. The dilemma for Clark is who does he play up front. It's Adams for me.

[Brightside]

Formation was spot on last night and got the best out of the players we have. Need to stick to that when possible.

[MartinfaePorty]

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All the boys want to play for the team these days. Back then we had players pulling out in favour of their club that you don't see now. I thought it took a while for the atmosphere to ramp up last night, hopefully Saturday will be louder. Patterson going of helped us imo, hickey gave us more cover down that side at they were overloading the left, and we were lucky not to lose something in the first half. Second half was superb with everyone doing their job.

Looking forward to Saturday. The dilemma for Clark is who does he play up front. It's Adams for me.

Totally agree. Atmosphere 1st half was a bit flat, but excellent 2nd. Saturday will be bouncing. Most folk will have had a few beers, weather looks decent, plenty away fans and a chance of making a huge step forward towards winning the group. Recipe for a great game (or disaster!).

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[nonshinyfinish]

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Formation was spot on last night and got the best out of the players we have. Need to stick to that when possible.

Problem is, how do you you accommodate Tierney and Robertson in that formation?

[CapitalGreen]

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Problem is, how do you you accommodate Tierney and Robertson in that formation?

You don’t. Just play the system that works best instead of shoehorning players into a less effective system. If that means Robertson is left on the bench then so be it.

[BoomtownHibees]

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Problem is, how do you you accommodate Tierney and Robertson in that formation?

Robertson sits on the bench for me

[nonshinyfinish]

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You don’t. Just play the system that works best instead of shoehorning players into a less effective system. If that means Robertson is left on the bench then so be it.

I agree to an extent, but I think that's easy to say when you're not the manager. Will be no problem for Clarke while results/performances are good, but a few poor games and everyone's going "why's he leaving the captain on the bench".

[BoomtownHibees]

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I agree to an extent, but I think that's easy to say when you're not the manager. Will be no problem for Clarke while results/performances are good, but a few poor games and everyone's going "why's he leaving the captain on the bench".

As well as last night working really well, I think Robertson has been poor in our last few games. I get the captain point but sometimes you stumble across something that works and you need to stick with it.

Similar to your point above, if he brings him back in and we are rubbish then the question will be asked why he was brought back in

[Brummie_Hibs]

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Totally agree. Atmosphere 1st half was a bit flat, but excellent 2nd.

I thought the second half was only marginally better than first.

All I can remember in first half was a lacklustre 'Flower of Scotland', in the second there was only a couple of more songs - but only once we went 2-0 up. Shame as that was one of the best second half displays I've actually witnessed at Hampden with Scotland. Saturday will be different!

NcGinn should now be permanent Captain - I think his style of football inspires more than Robertson, who, for some reason, cannot perform and be captain at the same time.

[Brightside]

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Problem is, how do you you accommodate Tierney and Robertson in that formation?

has the problem been trying to build the team around those 2 players. If they can't fit into a 4231 then someone drops out..

[overdrive]

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has the problem been trying to build the team around those 2 players. If they can't fit into a 4231 then someone drops out..

I agree with this. Although I think Robertson is the better player overall, I think Tierney performs better for Scotland than Robertson. Tierney will be due another injury soon anyway, so it is not as if he'll be keeping Robertson out all the time.

I do wonder if there might be repercussions for Tierney, though. It looked like he ripped the black armband for the Queen off and chucked it to the side of the pitch before kick off. I have no issue with that but I don't know if the SFA might take a different view.

[number9dream]

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Totally agree. Atmosphere 1st half was a bit flat, but excellent 2nd. Saturday will be bouncing. Most folk will have had a few beers, weather looks decent, plenty away fans and a chance of making a huge step forward towards winning the group. Recipe for a great game (or disaster!).

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Three games in six days is a punishing schedule, so some will need a rest, but Saturday is a must-win. Of course, Tuesday could well be the same unless Ukraine drop points in Armenia and we win again at Hampden.
It will be interesting to see how Steve Clarke uses his squad and Tierney in particular. Greg Taylor is having a good season but he’s not on the same level. Could be a debut for Porto at some stage since Hendry didn’t play much before his loan move to Italy. Can’t see Clarke changing the starting centre halves for Saturday though.

[Skol1972]

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Three games in six days is a punishing schedule, so some will need a rest, but Saturday is a must-win. Of course, Tuesday could well be the same unless Ukraine drop points in Armenia and we win again at Hampden.
It will be interesting to see how Steve Clarke uses his squad and Tierney in particular. Greg Taylor is having a good season but he’s not on the same level. Could be a debut for Porto at some stage since Hendry didn’t play much before his loan move to Italy. Can’t see Clarke changing the starting centre halves for Saturday though.

Saturday is going to be difficult as Tierney, Hickey, McGregor, and Gordon all played last Sunday. So Saturday will be the third game in 6 days for any who play. There was a lot of energy put into last nights performance while the ROI were not playing.

[Frazerbob]

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Three games in six days is a punishing schedule, so some will need a rest, but Saturday is a must-win. Of course, Tuesday could well be the same unless Ukraine drop points in Armenia and we win again at Hampden.
It will be interesting to see how Steve Clarke uses his squad and Tierney in particular. Greg Taylor is having a good season but he’s not on the same level. Could be a debut for Porto at some stage since Hendry didn’t play much before his loan move to Italy. Can’t see Clarke changing the starting centre halves for Saturday though.

Saturday is not a ‘must win’. 2 draws and we win the group. I’ll take that right now.
A win on Saturday and a loss on Tuesday and we probably finish 2nd, which is probably enough to secure a play-off place. Win on Saturday and Armenia take something from Ukraine and we finish top. Exciting times….and folk slated the Nations League when it started. Far better than friendlies.