Is there better to come or are we simply not very good?

[G B Young]

I wasn't there today so not best qualified to comment on the performance, but the general consensus both on here and from folk I know who were at the game was that it was pretty turgid stuff from two very average sides.

Based on the games I have been at this season I've seen very little to make me think we look like champions in waiting. In fact, as well as being frustrating to watch I actually find us BORING.

It seemed to me that Lennon's appointment showed Hibs mean business. He's made a big play of toughening us up not just physically but mentally. So where's the evidence of that? Two points out of nine, and just one from six at home sure ain't indicative of a side which aspires to boss this league.

Am I being impatient? Is Lennon still tinkering with his most effective line-up? Are we better than what we're showing so far and will we come good when it really matters? Or are we simply not as good as some seem to think?

Whatever the answers, one thing is for certain. We're a long way short of the form we need to get out of this league. Personally I feel we should be looking for more from Lennon and that Leann Dempster deserves more from her manager having made what looked on paper to be an imaginative and exciting appointment.

[green day]

Having considered your question, I think the answer is - no, yes, no, yes.

[Smartie]

I think it looks like we need to hand on in there and scrape what we can until January. We really need to change the way we play and strengthen this squad.

There will be no "skooshing" this league.

We're very pedestrian and there is only so much that Lennon will be able to do with the players he has to inject a bit of urgency.

We have the same players playing the same way making the same mistakes and picking up the same disappointing results.

I suspect Neil Lennon has slightly underestimated what he has on his hands here and I'm not convinced anyone at Easter Road knows what it takes to get us out of this league.

[bingo70]

I think we're just not that good to be honest.

These teams we're coming up against are dreadful, absolute garbage but we struggle to score goals against them.

I don't think we will see much change in January either as we'll get the usual stories about it being a difficult time to get players etc....

[Pretty Boy]

Dundee Utd, with the exception of their number 10, were utterly woeful.

We huffed and puffed against them for 90 minutes and never really looked like winning comfortably.

I'm not sure if we are not very good in general but, with a couple of exception, our performances this league season could certainly be described as such.

[Steve20]

We're not that good. We are terrible in the final third. We could still win the league but it's going to be tight between us, QOTS, Utd and Falkirk. We're no better or no worse than any of them.

[hibby6270]

We can definitely hope there's better to come but based on today's and the last home game against Ayr, I'm sadly coming to the conclusion we're not as good as we think we are.

1. Again today we lacked the clinical cutting edge of putting chances away. Same as the last 2 seasons and we know what that led to. I thought Lennon's tactic today of having the 2 fast tricky forwards up against their man mountain defence might have have turned out to be a good one but apart from few flashes of good play by Keatings, he was let down by Cummings by not matching his zest and desire to get the ball and do something positive with the ball.

2. To a greater extent, what did let us down today was again the defence. Crane should have been in at left back, leaving Hanlon and McGregor in the middle. Not that Forster did anything wrong but Hanlon is just not a natural left back.

3 finally, and the biggest tactic crime Lennon persists with - ZONAL MARKING - at corners and free kicks. If you're reading this Neil - "gonnae no dae that, just gonnae no!!" It's cost us 2 simple goals in those last 2 home matches that have ultimately taken us from comfortable winning position and probably 6 points, to a situation where we have won only 1 out of 6 points.

Does anyone disagree with the above points?

[SRHibs]

I feel like I was at a different game. I thought the game was of a decent standard (bearing in mind it's the Scottish championship). Both teams passed the ball well at times and crafted some good chances. Granted it wasn't a fantastic result but it wasn't a disaster by any means.

[hibsbollah]

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We can definitely hope there's better to come but based on today's and the last home game against Ayr, I'm sadly coming to the conclusion we're not as good as we think we are.

1. Again today we lacked the clinical cutting edge of putting chances away. Same as the last 2 seasons and we know what that led to. I thought Lennon's tactic today of having the 2 fast tricky forwards up against their man mountain defence might have have turned out to be a good one but apart from few flashes of good play by Keatings, he was let down by Cummings by not matching his zest and desire to get the ball and do something positive with the ball.

2. To a greater extent, what did let us down today was again the defence. Crane should have been in at left back, leaving Hanlon and McGregor in the middle. Not that Forster did anything wrong but Hanlon is just not a natural left back.

3 finally, and the biggest tactic crime Lennon persists with - ZONAL MARKING - at corners and free kicks. If you're reading this Neil - "gonnae no dae that, just gonnae no!!" It's cost us 2 simple goals in those last 2 home matches that have ultimately taken us from comfortable winning position and probably 6 points, to a situation where we have won only 1 out of 6 points.

Does anyone disagree with the above points?

Id take issue with #2, I thought the defence was mostly solid first half, losing Gray was a blow, but Hanlon did fine on the left and the goal was just a perfect header from distance, how many saves did Rocky have to make?

Our problem is a lack of creativity in the final third.

[Smartie]

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We can definitely hope there's better to come but based on today's and the last home game against Ayr, I'm sadly coming to the conclusion we're not as good as we think we are.

1. Again today we lacked the clinical cutting edge of putting chances away. Same as the last 2 seasons and we know what that led to. I thought Lennon's tactic today of having the 2 fast tricky forwards up against their man mountain defence might have have turned out to be a good one but apart from few flashes of good play by Keatings, he was let down by Cummings by not matching his zest and desire to get the ball and do something positive with the ball.

2. To a greater extent, what did let us down today was again the defence. Crane should have been in at left back, leaving Hanlon and McGregor in the middle. Not that Forster did anything wrong but Hanlon is just not a natural left back.

3 finally, and the biggest tactic crime Lennon persists with - ZONAL MARKING - at corners and free kicks. If you're reading this Neil - "gonnae no dae that, just gonnae no!!" It's cost us 2 simple goals in those last 2 home matches that have ultimately taken us from comfortable winning position and probably 6 points, to a situation where we have won only 1 out of 6 points.

Does anyone disagree with the above points?

I agree 100% with 1 and 3.

2 is a bit harsh. We defended fine and dealt with any threat that United had comfortably, other than the zonal marking for the goal. It was interesting to see that Hanlon's distribution was no better than we'd have expected from Stevenson even including the hoofed cross straight into the stand under no pressure.

Number 3 is the most worrying - as you say it's cost is 5 points in 2 games. This isn't a belief that Lennon is going to give up in a hurry so it looks like we're stuck with it.

[staunchhibby]

Zonal marking is going to cost us dearly unless we abandon it now.

[seanoheimhin]

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We're not that good. We are terrible in the final third. We could still win the league but it's going to be tight between us, QOTS, Utd and Falkirk. We're no better or no worse than any of them.

Think this sums the whole predicament up well. You can break it down into 'heart', 'bottle', 'hunger' etc etc but we just NEVER score enough goals against teams we dominate. This leads to the very simple conclusion we're not good enough to do so.

With so many good cup results last season against Prem teams it was logical to think we were better than our championship rivals. That didn't play out in practice last season and it's proving not to be the case this season.

I'm confused, I'm no expert and I don't know what we can do differently. Sometimes you get a wee bad spell in a season, but this feels more representative of our overall quality. I think we probably will win the league by 5-8 pts in the end, but if so it won't be in style and it will be a nervy ride (as always).

[Mon Dieu4]

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Id take issue with #2, I thought the defence was mostly solid first half, losing Gray was a blow, but Hanlon did fine on the left and the goal was just a perfect header from distance, how many saves did Rocky have to make?

Our problem is a lack of creativity in the final third.

Correct, if you stop our midfield you know what's about to happen, a backwards or sideways pass, we need someone with creativity or pace to try something out of the ordinary, it's all very pedestrian

[emerald green]

Hibs have some very good individual players in the squad, but as a team they are not as good as some on this forum make out. Certainly not on the evidence of overall performances so far this season.

A chronic lack of width, pace especially, and guile in the team is obvious by now surely to anyone who has the slightest idea about football. Bringing Boyle on with 15 minutes to go and expecting a miracle wont do. Harris is not good enough IMHO. Dan Carmichael was let go.

Every opposition coach has got Hibs well sussed out, and they have done for the past two or three seasons. You don't have to be a tactical genius to know how to play against Hibs. Get everyone behind the ball and watch Hibs make loads of passes in front of you. Waste as much time as you can possibly get away with too.

The only thing different from too many similar displays was Hibs didn't get caught with the very late sucker punch to lose all three points.

Lennon needs to look at how the team is being set up going forward, but his options seem fairly limited.

That was probably the worst Dundee United team I've seen in many a long year. They offered virtually nothing, yet Hibs could not beat them.

[Jim44]

I think we have become a fairly good Championship side struggling to get out of the Championship as opposed to a poor Premiership side struggling to get out of the Championship.

[Eyrie]

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I think we have become a fairly good Championship side struggling to get out of the Championship as opposed to a poor Premiership side struggling to get out of the Championship.

Brutal, but accurate.

[1987kev]

Our league form since February hasn't been great.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Dundee Utd, with the exception of their number 10, were utterly woeful.

We huffed and puffed against them for 90 minutes and never really looked like winning comfortably.

I'm not sure if we are not very good in general but, with a couple of exception, our performances this league season could certainly be described as such.

Big defender that scored was excellent.

[hibby6270]

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2 is a bit harsh. We defended fine and dealt with any threat that United had comfortably, other than the zonal marking for the goal. It was interesting to see that Hanlon's distribution was no better than we'd have expected from Stevenson even including the hoofed cross straight into the stand under no pressure.

Yeah - point taken. You're summing up is probably closer to the mark. I wasn't having a go at the defence today in general. Let's face it they weren't up against much as it turned out.

Think what I was trying to say was a natural left back would have been a better replacement for Lewis. Hanlon defended well but he ain't got the attacking quality. As a stand in for Lewis he did, as you say, not do any better than Lewis does at times with his crosses and that let us down again today.

[Dashing Bob S]

We have all the old failings from last season; lack of width and pace, not taking chances and finishing teams off, but even given this, we are still underperforming.

United are poor, Falkirk are weaker than last season, and QOS and Raith not that great.

But we really need to get our act together. Still very early days, but the biggest disappointment so far for me has been Lennon. After a good start the players don't seem to be responding to him, and tactically he has been at least conservative as Stubbs.

He has brought in two target men, which give us another option, but without pacy wide men who can cross a ball, their effectiveness is limited.

Fact is that we are easy to shut down, and don't seem to have an effective Plan B.

With our squad we should indeed by skooshing, but it looks more like it's going to be a turgid struggle where we get to the finishing line more through our opponents limitations, than through any class we're showing.

As I say, I hope, and I expect, that there is more to come from Lennon and Hibs, but right now I'm far from convinced.

[neil7908]

With the players we have, 8 games into the season I don't see how we can argue there is more to come from this team. Apart from the Morton game we haven't really hammered anyone, it's been narrow results with 1 goal in it. We still have a great chance of winning this league but not with the kind of displays we've been producing the last few weeks.

I think Lennon needs to be brave and two of Mcgeough, Mcginn, Fyvie and Bartley will need to accept a place on the bench.

[biotech]

Even when we've won games, we were not always been convincing. We don't do the basics (e.g. defend corners) well enough to win this league at a canter.

Going to be long hard winter.

[Bishop Hibee]

Good question. After some discussion in the pub post-match the consensus is we have good players but the mix is not right. Stubbs couldn't fix it and for the first time today I fear Lennon is falling into the same trap.

Agreement among those I sit with that Harris should be given a run even though he isn't as good as the midfielders who played today. We need to change the shape. We also need midfielders getting into the box. Even if we'd got to the byeline there were only 2 in the box, 3 at the most.

[Hibernia&Alba]

There's better to come for sure. It's still early days with the new management and things won't simply be transformed overnight. Last season we weren't consistent or ruthless enough in the league, and it will take a bit of time for Lennon to get the squad to adapt to exactly what he wants. It was a poor performance today no question, but we didn't lose the game. We're still searching for the perfect blend in the team, and I'm sure it will come. Hard work on the training ground is something Lennon will ensure.

[buktadays]

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Even when we've won games, we were not always been convincing. We don't do the basics (e.g. defend corners) well enough to win this league at a canter.

Going to be long hard winter.

Agree. Basics like running with the ball, you're either going to open things up or force your opponent into a foul. But we just don't do it.Why we breakdown so much in the final third is beyond me, we just fail to create anything up front.


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[IberianHibernian]

Is there better to come ? Definitely but probably after 2 or 3 signings in January . Hopefully no team will pull too far ahead of us before then .

[Stevie Reid]

I think there is much better to come, but disappointed that we haven't kicked on from the start we made after the first 5 games.

Still annoyed at the Bartley sending off, but performances in our last two home games have been very flat.

[Itsnoteasy]

We have the best team of individuals outside the top 3-4 teams in Scottish football. But these are individuals who can't play as a team.

[ancient hibee]

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Is there better to come ? Definitely but probably after 2 or 3 signings in January . Hopefully no team will pull too far ahead of us before then .

In the first game away to Falkirk we were excellent.Quick into tackles,moving the ball about smartly and taking no prisoners,all against the team expected to be our greatest challengers.Since then we haven't reproduced that performance.

[IberianHibernian]

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In the first game away to Falkirk we were excellent.Quick into tackles,moving the ball about smartly and taking no prisoners,all against the team expected to be our greatest challengers.Since then we haven't reproduced that performance.

Yes but Falkirk started the season badly ( not just against us ) and we`played poorly in following games against QOS and Dunfermline and haven`t improved since then . So lots of room for improvement .