I am not old enough to have seen them, so i wondered if anyone could help me with some questions. I was reading tom wright's book and two things struck me -
Firstly how blooming frustrating it is that they didnt win more. Apparently we were third favourites behind leeds utd and ac milan to win the cup winners cup!
Secondly, i have always heard it said that it was never the same after 72/73 yet their best two league finishes came after this 'peak' (consecutive 2nd places) - so what happened there? Was it a case of the opposition weakening?
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Thread: Tornadoes question
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20-09-2016 09:22 AM #1
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Tornadoes question
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20-09-2016 10:15 AM #2
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They were unlucky to peak at the same time Celtic were in the middle of their 9-in-a-row era. Otherwise they might well have won a league title and another cup final or two. Rangers were always beatable at that time.
Celtic's decline (if you can call it that) didn't really start until Hibs had also weakened with the break-up of the classic Tornadoes line-up. The majority of Hibs fans who watched the team then point to the arrival of Joe Harper as the end of an era. Great striker who did score a lot of goals, but it meant the end of the very popular Gordon/O'Rourke pairing up front which yielded a phenomenal amount of goals. Many of the Tornadoes team have since said they felt Eddie Turnbull broke up the team too soon having decided after we blew a great chance to get to the semi-final of the Cup Winners Cup that we weren't strong enough.
Another factor was John Brownlie breaking his leg the week after the 7-0 game. Coupled with a long suspension for Alex Edwards it definitely affected our hopes of winning the title that season.
Nevertheless, we remained a club which competed at the top end of the table for a few more years and at the time you refer to it was unthinkable that we would find ourselves relegated at the end of the decade.Last edited by G B Young; 20-09-2016 at 10:19 AM.
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20-09-2016 11:35 AM #3This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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20-09-2016 11:36 AM #4This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
A very good summary. Although many of the Celtc European cup winning team had gone by 1972, McNeill & Johnstone both played in the LC final. In addition younger players such as Dalglish, Macari, Hay, Connelly & McGrain had stepped up. A measure of how good Hibs were was shown by Stein playing Jimmy Johnstone on the left in a ( vain ) attempt to curb Brownlie's attacking play. For all we celebrated in May this year, December 1972 was as much of a milestone in that it was our 1st cup of any kind in 70 years & it was our first trophy win at Hampden! A wonderful team.
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20-09-2016 11:39 AM #5This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We had some great European nights and generally ran rings round the now defunct version of Glasgow rangers in those days too.
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"I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"
Sir Matt Busby
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20-09-2016 11:54 AM #6This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
For example Alan Gordon arrived in January 1972 and departed in November 1974.
Jimmy O'Rourke left in May 1974.
When people speak about the Turnbull Tornadoes they inevitably think of the O'Rourke Gordon partnership, they played less than 2 and a half seasons together.
Mind you what a two and a half seasons it was.
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20-09-2016 12:07 PM #7
Cant multi quote but the posts from GBYoung, Brog & Scoopyboy are all bang on the money
Wonderful wonderful team and a great period to watch Hibs in.
The only downside being that very few games, let alone teams have ever lived up to the absolute joy of watching the Tornadoes in full flow and that has made the last 40 odd years hard viewing at times.
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20-09-2016 12:14 PM #8
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Did someone on here not say that the tornados actually only played 22 times as a team?
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20-09-2016 12:21 PM #9This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If we are talking about the exact same team that won the League Cup and beat Hearts 7-0 then that could well be right.
John Brownlie broke his leg the game after 7-0 which meant him and Alan Gordon were teammates for less than a calendar year.
Alex Edwards served a long suspension not long afterwards so it would all add up.
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20-09-2016 12:26 PM #10
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20-09-2016 12:28 PM #11
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An absolute fantastic side only bettered by a great Celtic side that frequently went to latter stages of European cup , I'm sure joe Harper's debut was at Falkirk and at that time you could hop on special buses from St. Andrews sq bus station (which I did ) brockville was rammed to rafters I personally think that was the end off the tornadoes when Jimmy left for him but for me the tornadoes were the greatest Scottish side ever , never to win a championship what fantastic memories they gave me as a very young teenager
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20-09-2016 12:34 PM #12
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Never played together after East Fife game.
Would have loved to see more trophies but it was their brand of football that made them special.
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20-09-2016 01:01 PM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
TORNADOES v FAMOUS FIVE years, my late dad and I could never agree who were all round better. For me it was TORNADOES, for him it was FAMOUS FIVE (I wasn't alive to see the five so can't comment).
Difference being, FF won more. But I will never change my mind.
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20-09-2016 02:58 PM #14
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Turnballs Tornadoes in my mind refers to 11 players (plus John Hazel as the sub) rather than an era
These 11 players played together from pre 1972 SCF which we lost (but didn't include cropley who was injured?) until the East Fife game in early Jan 1973 when they were top of the league. During that period they broke all kinds of scoring records including the LCF win but fell away towards the end of 72-73 season due to aforementioned injuries and suspensions - including losing 3-0 in Split in the CWC QF second which put us out - and was the catalyst that led Turnbull to dismantle that team in an attempt to make it better
Paradoxically he changed the forwards rather than the defense (1-6 to Celtic) and should have strengthened CH and GK rather than forward line.............
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20-09-2016 03:06 PM #15
The reason TT's didn't win more was lack of cover in key positions.
Alex Edwards was suspended a lot mainly due to teams goading him and playing on his firey temper. (He never got the protection he deserved)
Joe Harper was brought in but despite his scoring record, his persona never 'fitted in'. (He was the Hibs' Yoko Ono)
Although a decent CH, Jim Black always seemed to have a mare against Dixie Dean's which didn't help.
Onion's broken leg (I heard the crack too) was probably the moment the Tornados ironically broke up as well.
Paddy says that Turnbull upped the training when they went top of the league and this overstressed the players. Who am I to argue with either of those Hibs legends?
For me, what made the Tornados great was the individual skills and the variety of the mix that all blended into one.
They were the best team I've ever seen and I feel honoured that I was one of the thousands of fans that experienced their magic. Thank you, lads
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20-09-2016 03:11 PM #16This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Turnbull had a few victories against him, first at Hibs then at A'deen, but could never get past him at either.
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20-09-2016 03:11 PM #17This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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20-09-2016 03:13 PM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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20-09-2016 03:15 PM #19
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20-09-2016 03:15 PM #20This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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20-09-2016 03:29 PM #21This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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20-09-2016 04:00 PM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Anyway.. back on topic...
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20-09-2016 04:00 PM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It always seemed to be playing doon the slope that they were brilliant
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20-09-2016 04:01 PM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Ned was too stubborn with little man management skills, hooking Alex Edwards [when he was a little "under the weather"] instead of the "arm around the shoulder" at half time, when we were leading Celtic at parkhead, with wee mickey running the show was an example of that. This game was two weeks to the day after the 72 league cup final and celtic had their noses in front of us in the league at this time. With mickey hooked, we lost control of the game and this cost us a point and gave our rivals one as well. It is well documented that the 7-0 put us top of the league, but it was the 5ft goal that put us top [goal difference] and celtic had a game in hand, so not getting the full points at parkhead, a week or so before the derby, at the time was a big thing.
Once Onion broke his leg, five days after the derby slaughter, our next game was against Dundee United, in Dundee, we had already pumped them 5-1 there in the league cup and with Des Bremner [recently signed from the highland league] making his debut in Onions position, we were beaten and from then until the end of the season, we'd have the odd renaissance's [scottish cup games against der hun] extremely unluckily beaten by a goal three yards offside, after we had pummeled them for 90 minutes in the ER replay.
Those performances like against rangers were too few and far between and by the time we came to our our final game, a vastly inferior rangers had overtaken us in the league. The last game that season was at ER against celtic, with the likes of Bobby Smith playing and celtic went off with a very easy 3-0 victory.
The following two season's, Hibs were back to their inconsistent best [even although they finished both season's second]. Given the quality of the players Hibs had, they could beat celtic and rangers again in holding on to the Drybrough and play the best team down south, off the park, in both legs, but they totally lacked the consistency to keep up those high levels of performance [during season 73/4]. The following season was much the same, beating rangers home and away in the league cup and getting 11 goals taken off us by celtic over two games in a fortnight during that autumn.Last edited by Ray_; 20-09-2016 at 04:26 PM.
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20-09-2016 04:10 PM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Without doubt. Stein's genius was getting the best out of everyone's talents.
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20-09-2016 04:17 PM #26This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Last edited by Ray_; 20-09-2016 at 04:22 PM.
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20-09-2016 04:19 PM #27
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As a previous poster mentioned Jim Black was the weak link in the team at the back But Turnbull stuck by him when everyone could see we needed better, only when the team was in decline did he sign George Stewart but it was two seasons to late. Turnbull also played John Hazel in some big games but to many he just was not up to the standard that we needed but Ned was a stubborn man who took no criticism, there was also no love lost between Stanton and Turnbull but give Pat his due it never stopped him giving his all for the team. Having said all that when they were at their best they were a joy to watch and played football of such a high standard that even after all these years no Hibs team has come close to playing like they did.
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20-09-2016 04:33 PM #28This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I agree. They were the best Hibs team, I have seen but we are talking about the first eleven only. Looking back, the squad lacked depth. We had, Johnny Hamilton and John Hazel but I cannot recall many others. Johnny Hamilton's goal in around 10 seconds at Falkirk is a strong memory of the era as is the LC win in December 72 and of course 01/01/73. European nights were brilliant and I remember feeling we were good enough to go to the ECWC Final. Hadjuk Split put us out, signalling the end of the Tornadoes. I was a teenager in the Dunbar Road end when my hero of the time, John Brownlie had his leg broken. The whole ground heard the bone break. Alex Edwards suspension coupled with Brownlies absence really weakened the right side of the team and stopped our challenge to Celtic.
Like the post above, it was this team that started my now 45 years of Hibernian support and I too feel privleged to have seen them. Simply fantastic football.
I hope that in 45 years time, young fans of today who have seen our beloved Hibernian win the Scottish Cup will look back to that win as the end of a dire period and the start of the third great Hibernian era. GGTTH
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20-09-2016 05:26 PM #29
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While at their peak a Tornadoes match was shown on Match of the Day.While summarising,Jimmy Hill expressed an opinion that both Hibs and Celtic be invited to join the English league.Yes,at that time,both teams were at least equal to the top English clubs.
Don't know if MOTD was broadcast to Scotland at that time.If it was I hope management and supporters of the club formerly known as Rangers were watching and listening.
Are any netters aware if any other Scottish league game has been shown on MOTD?
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20-09-2016 05:32 PM #30
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Convinced that if George Stewart had been signed 2/3 seasons earlier we would have won the league.Jim Black was sound but regularly got taken to the cleaners by Deans.
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