James Naughtie lies about Old Firm on BBC

[worcesterhibby]

The denial is getting beyond a joke...

It is not so long since the Rangers ground, Ibrox Stadium, rang to the deafening sound of the Orange anthem, The Sash My Father Wore, and at Celtic Park you would hear the full Irish Republican repertoire
Really ? I'd be fascinated if you could tell me when it stopped

Their encounters sometimes seemed to be proxies for re-enactments of 17th century battles, as if the bitterness had been distilled and kept like a precious drink for special occasions.
But the story is much richer than that. This industrial city, where they used to build a quarter of the world's shipping, got much of its colour from the football field.
A smoke-shrouded, tough city, where the work was hard and life often punishing, found pageantry in the rivalry of these clubs.
Kids were reared on the magic; traditions were burnished down the years and passed on.

Magic ? really ? teaching your kids to hate people simply because of their religion ? spitting, throwing coins and darts, stabbings, killings...that's the "magic" we should be teaching our kids is it James ?
It often angered the other clubs in Scotland, of course. The Old Firm's dominance, and money, often seemed like a stranglehold.Yet while Rangers were out of the Premiership, working their way back after financial disaster, everyone acknowledged that something had been lost.
You may not like them, but maybe you need them.

​Total Bollocks

[lord bunberry]

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The denial is getting beyond a joke...

It is not so long since the Rangers ground, Ibrox Stadium, rang to the deafening sound of the Orange anthem, The Sash My Father Wore, and at Celtic Park you would hear the full Irish Republican repertoire
Really ? I'd be fascinated if you could tell me when it stopped

Their encounters sometimes seemed to be proxies for re-enactments of 17th century battles, as if the bitterness had been distilled and kept like a precious drink for special occasions.
But the story is much richer than that. This industrial city, where they used to build a quarter of the world's shipping, got much of its colour from the football field.
A smoke-shrouded, tough city, where the work was hard and life often punishing, found pageantry in the rivalry of these clubs.
Kids were reared on the magic; traditions were burnished down the years and passed on.

Magic ? really ? teaching your kids to hate people simply because of their religion ? spitting, throwing coins and darts, stabbings, killings...that's the "magic" we should be teaching our kids is it James ?
It often angered the other clubs in Scotland, of course. The Old Firm's dominance, and money, often seemed like a stranglehold.Yet while Rangers were out of the Premiership, working their way back after financial disaster, everyone acknowledged that something had been lost.
You may not like them, but maybe you need them.

​Total Bollocks

That's probably the biggest load of pish I've ever read.

[givescotlandfreedom]

What a pile of absolute garbage.

[chinaman]

Whose james naughtier ?

[poolman]

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The denial is getting beyond a joke...

It is not so long since the Rangers ground, Ibrox Stadium, rang to the deafening sound of the Orange anthem, The Sash My Father Wore, and at Celtic Park you would hear the full Irish Republican repertoire
Really ? I'd be fascinated if you could tell me when it stopped

Their encounters sometimes seemed to be proxies for re-enactments of 17th century battles, as if the bitterness had been distilled and kept like a precious drink for special occasions.
But the story is much richer than that. This industrial city, where they used to build a quarter of the world's shipping, got much of its colour from the football field.
A smoke-shrouded, tough city, where the work was hard and life often punishing, found pageantry in the rivalry of these clubs.
Kids were reared on the magic; traditions were burnished down the years and passed on.

Magic ? really ? teaching your kids to hate people simply because of their religion ? spitting, throwing coins and darts, stabbings, killings...that's the "magic" we should be teaching our kids is it James ?
It often angered the other clubs in Scotland, of course. The Old Firm's dominance, and money, often seemed like a stranglehold.Yet while Rangers were out of the Premiership, working their way back after financial disaster, everyone acknowledged that something had been lost.
You may not like them, but maybe you need them.

​Total Bollocks

He's deluded beyond repair

[Baader]

I like Jim Naughtie but he is quite a bit off the mark here.

In the full article he does acknowledge sectarianism is still around but going on his take on Ibrox above I would imagine he has not seen - moreso 'heard' - the new The Rangers anytime recently.

[Hibs Class]

I heard Naughtie do an oral piece on this on the Radio 4 news thismorning. Whilst the media build-up this week generally has been over the top in its sycophancy, Naughtie’s report was particularly nauseating. He made it sound quite nostalgic, almost quaint, chuckling at e.g. one supporter who said the Sheriff court would be busy on Monday with 400 bodies, and another old man who said he might look white but deep down is orange. He suggested the bad singing had largely gone since the clubs screwed down on it. Pretty depressing stuff. No mention of how the “success” oldco achieved in the 90s was won through financial doping. It would have been more balanced if Naughtie had, forexample, reflected on how many Glasgow housewives will get up tomorrow morning wondering if they will receive a battering before bedtime.

[hibbysam]

The fact the police had to issue a warning this morning alongside an action plan on domestic abuse tells us all we need to know about the old firm in Scotland!

[Jim44]

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Whose james naughtier ?

He's a Scottish journalist and presenter, mainly known for his political writing and presenting. He's well known for his on-air faux pas a few years ago when, introducing the then culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt, he replaced the H with a C. Seems he is a bit of a stupid Jeremy, himself.

[snooky]

His opinion is worth naught.

[matty_f]

As much as we don't like it, the Old Firm derby is a big game, there is a rich tradition there which isn't entirely shrouded in sectarianism. There are many fans on both sides that have nothing to do with the religious hatred, we can say that without taking away the fact that there is still a significant issue there.

People should be allowed to celebrate the good aspects of this tie, it's unfortunate that we've reached a position where no credit can be given to a game that (like it or not) generates huge interest in Scottish football. Instead of trying to shoot it down, we should be looking at how we can generate that interest in the other Scottish derbies.

We are not without our own sectarian issues (as minor as they may be) - it wasn't long ago a video was posted on here of Hibs fans in Copenhagen marching to the ground singing "we'll never be mastered, by no orange *******s" - I don't recall a single post calling that out at the time.

Instead of getting ourselves into a frenzy anytime someone acknowledges something positive about the Old Firm, or fails to mention that The Rangers got liquidated or cheated with EBT's, we could be shouting about the positives in the rest of Scottish football.

[Stevie Reid]

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As much as we don't like it, the Old Firm derby is a big game, there is a rich tradition there which isn't entirely shrouded in sectarianism. There are many fans on both sides that have nothing to do with the religious hatred, we can say that without taking away the fact that there is still a significant issue there.

People should be allowed to celebrate the good aspects of this tie, it's unfortunate that we've reached a position where no credit can be given to a game that (like it or not) generates huge interest in Scottish football. Instead of trying to shoot it down, we should be looking at how we can generate that interest in the other Scottish derbies.

We are not without our own sectarian issues (as minor as they may be) - it wasn't long ago a video was posted on here of Hibs fans in Copenhagen marching to the ground singing "we'll never be mastered, by no orange *******s" - I don't recall a single post calling that out at the time.

Instead of getting ourselves into a frenzy anytime someone acknowledges something positive about the Old Firm, or fails to mention that The Rangers got liquidated or cheated with EBT's, we could be shouting about the positives in the rest of Scottish football.

Great post, Matty

I'm actually quite looking forward to the game tomorrow, incidentally.

[worcesterhibby]

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As much as we don't like it, the Old Firm derby is a big game, there is a rich tradition there which isn't entirely shrouded in sectarianism. There are many fans on both sides that have nothing to do with the religious hatred, we can say that without taking away the fact that there is still a significant issue there.

People should be allowed to celebrate the good aspects of this tie, it's unfortunate that we've reached a position where no credit can be given to a game that (like it or not) generates huge interest in Scottish football. Instead of trying to shoot it down, we should be looking at how we can generate that interest in the other Scottish derbies.

We are not without our own sectarian issues (as minor as they may be) - it wasn't long ago a video was posted on here of Hibs fans in Copenhagen marching to the ground singing "we'll never be mastered, by no orange *******s" - I don't recall a single post calling that out at the time.

Instead of getting ourselves into a frenzy anytime someone acknowledges something positive about the Old Firm, or fails to mention that The Rangers got liquidated or cheated with EBT's, we could be shouting about the positives in the rest of Scottish football.

I don't disagree Matty, but I do object to the fact that the BBC (which we all pay for) seem hell bent on telling us how all the sectarian singing is pretty much gone now and that it's not nearly as bad as it was...personally I think the horrific, holier than though, chip on shoulder Newco that wear the Rangers coloured shirt these days is as bad as it's ever been. we have just seen the bread man posing for photos with Flute bands let's not forget.

[Alex Trager]

It's almost as if he is about to tell us why there is such an interest in it beyond the sectarian element.

He says Glasgow is a hard working city then Nout.
I was expecting some sort of further explanation.

I think I stand along side majority of Scotland in saying I hope The Rangers get hammered tomorrow.

The thing with celebrating the tie is it is particularly hard to do.

So much violence.
So much law breaking.
So much fall out.

I cannot stand hearts, but when we get beat I don't go knifing folk, or Mrs Trager.
In fact what are the positives of the game?
The revenue it brings to 'Scotland*'?

*Celtic and The Rangers

Or the interest it brings to the 'Scottish game*'

*the four Celtic and The Rangers games.

It can be entertaining when it gets out of hand and red cards etc start to fly.

But really I don't see how it is any different to our Derby or the Dundee Derby.

The only difference is the scale.
If we had the numbers ours would generate the interest.

I suppose the other thing that stands it apart is the clear hatred they share for each other.
And that is born from their sectarian roots.

I really am at a loss as to why this game is so special? Or why it should be celebrated. When the only thing that sets it apart is the bigotry

It is normally an entertaining game, but it has been doing my nut in all week. All over social media.

[mjhibby]

[QUOTE=hibbysam;4814505]The fact the police had to issue a warning this morning alongside an action plan on domestic abuse tells us all we need to know about the old firm in Scotland![/QUOTEThe media outside scotland are not interested in the terrible price we all have to pay for the old firm and only want the so called box office Glasgow bigot fest. Their semi final last year was poor as are most infirm derbies. Without controversy though it wouldn't be worth covering. I couldn't care less about the game but fwiw Celtic will win easily and this early kill off any preposterous challenge that sevco will make for the title. As for us needing them I think our results in Europe and the scotland team shows how much help they are. Wouldn't miss them if the slightest if went down south. I'd in fact wave them off.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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It often angered the other clubs in Scotland, of course. The Old Firm's dominance, and money, often seemed like a stranglehold.Yet while Rangers were out of the Premiership, working their way back after financial disaster, everyone acknowledged that something had been lost.
You may not like them, but maybe you need them.

​Total Bollocks

It didn't 'seem' like a total stranglehold, it was and is a total stranglehold .... made even worse by the fact that one cheek of the arse cheated to ensure that stranglehold was maintained.

Something had been lost that's for sure, but the question is who would be greetin' if it stayed lost? the woman I heard on the radio phone in a few weeks back who said that for the last few years there's only one game at Rugby park she wouldn't take her kids to and now with Sevco's promotion there will be two. The housewives of Glasgow and other places in the west of Scotland who have had a reprieve from the fallout for the last 3 years, the staff of NHS Glasgow, the police .... aye, you can feel their sense of loss from here.

[lord bunberry]

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As much as we don't like it, the Old Firm derby is a big game, there is a rich tradition there which isn't entirely shrouded in sectarianism. There are many fans on both sides that have nothing to do with the religious hatred, we can say that without taking away the fact that there is still a significant issue there.

People should be allowed to celebrate the good aspects of this tie, it's unfortunate that we've reached a position where no credit can be given to a game that (like it or not) generates huge interest in Scottish football. Instead of trying to shoot it down, we should be looking at how we can generate that interest in the other Scottish derbies.

We are not without our own sectarian issues (as minor as they may be) - it wasn't long ago a video was posted on here of Hibs fans in Copenhagen marching to the ground singing "we'll never be mastered, by no orange *******s" - I don't recall a single post calling that out at the time.

Instead of getting ourselves into a frenzy anytime someone acknowledges something positive about the Old Firm, or fails to mention that The Rangers got liquidated or cheated with EBT's, we could be shouting about the positives in the rest of Scottish football.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the article posted. It certainly isn't celebrating the good things about this tie. When the ugly sisters manage to get their problems down to a few fans singing a song on a European trip, then we can move the focus from the problems this fixture brings to the positives it could bring. The attraction of this fixture for people outside this country is that the absolute hatred could spill over at anytime. It's billed as the biggest Derby in the world for reasons other than football rivalry.

[zlatan]

It often angered the other clubs in Scotland, of course. The Old Firm's dominance, and money, often seemed like a stranglehold.Yet while Rangers were out of the Premiership, working their way back after financial disaster, everyone acknowledged that something had been lost.

You may not like them, but maybe you need them.

I read this earlier and this part was infuriating, bordering on insulting, to Scottish football fans. For 4 years we've had teams win their first trophies in decades, or in some cases ever. Sides were getting better exposure on TV and some were even increasing their attendances. However now we have this fixture back we're supposed to be secretly delighted all that is coming to an end? I appreciate it's the biggest fixture in Scottish football but the fact Sky have put it up against the Manchester derby shows you how highly it's regarded outside of Scotland these days. You'll be lucky if it even gets a paragraph in the English press on Sunday.

If I didn't have a ticket sorted for the Hibs end tomorrow I'd still have been going to another game or going a walk as opposed to watching that guff tomorrow. Oh how I've missed it.

[superfurryhibby]

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It didn't 'seem' like a total stranglehold, it was and is a total stranglehold .... made even worse by the fact that one cheek of the arse cheated to ensure that stranglehold was maintained.

Something had been lost that's for sure, but the question is who would be greetin' if it stayed lost? the woman I heard on the radio phone in a few weeks back who said that for the last few years there's only one game at Rugby park she wouldn't take her kids to and now with Sevco's promotion there will be two. The housewives of Glasgow and other places in the west of Scotland who have had a reprieve from the fallout for the last 3 years, the staff of NHS Glasgow, the police .... aye, you can feel their sense of loss from here.

We must also acknowledge that as well as the bigotry attached to the game, the other factors like domestic and other violence reflect issues with flawed nature of elements of Scottish masculinity. I mean who the **** batters their wife, girlfriend or a passing stranger after the football? We are talking about seriously flawed specimens here. Football is the catalyst but ithe damaged people who react like that are products of wider the societal factors that afflict our conutry.

[weecounty hibby]

Police leave cancelled, hospital A&E depts on full alert, domestic abuse cases through the roof, sectarian bile on a grander scale than ever before. Yip, we've all missed it right enough. I would rather cut my baws off with a blunt rusty penknife than watch it. It will likely be a crap game with one decent team trying to play football and win and one bang average team trying hard not to get beat. But the press in this country will be drooling about it and fawning over all involved, especially the Huns. The media in all other countries won't give a ****

[Malthibby]

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We must also acknowledge that as well as the bigotry attached to the game, the other factors like domestic and other violence reflect issues with flawed nature of elements of Scottish masculinity. I mean who the **** batters their wife, girlfriend or a passing stranger after the football? We are talking about seriously flawed specimens here. Football is the catalyst but ithe damaged people who react like that are products of wider the societal factors that afflict our conutry.

Naughtie & the rest of the apologists can gtf. Scotland would be much, much better off without the Glasgow derby; anything 'lost' is wholly overridden by battered wives, deaths
& the perpetuation of the bigotry which feeds those teams (& I agree Sevco are much, much worse, they have shown they have learned nothing while away, but you don't get one without the other).

[Betty Boop]

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As much as we don't like it, the Old Firm derby is a big game, there is a rich tradition there which isn't entirely shrouded in sectarianism. There are many fans on both sides that have nothing to do with the religious hatred, we can say that without taking away the fact that there is still a significant issue there.

People should be allowed to celebrate the good aspects of this tie, it's unfortunate that we've reached a position where no credit can be given to a game that (like it or not) generates huge interest in Scottish football. Instead of trying to shoot it down, we should be looking at how we can generate that interest in the other Scottish derbies.

We are not without our own sectarian issues (as minor as they may be) - it wasn't long ago a video was posted on here of Hibs fans in Copenhagen marching to the ground singing "we'll never be mastered, by no orange *******s" - I don't recall a single post calling that out at the time.

Instead of getting ourselves into a frenzy anytime someone acknowledges something positive about the Old Firm, or fails to mention that The Rangers got liquidated or cheated with EBT's, we could be shouting about the positives in the rest of Scottish football.

[Pete]

Known in the dressing room as "pwopa".

[grunt]

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Instead of getting ourselves into a frenzy anytime someone acknowledges something positive about the Old Firm, or fails to mention that The Rangers got liquidated or cheated with EBT's, we could be shouting about the positives in the rest of Scottish football.

I think it's about balance. No one doubts the huge pulling power of a rivalry of this scale and longevity, and let's face it, drama.
But any discussion about the game needs to also take into account the huge, significant negatives which accompany it.
The Naughtie piece seems to have lacked this balance.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i was reading last week that glesca CCTV operators are on strike this weekend couldn't have timed it better eh

[steakbake]

In short, I hope Celtic absolutely pump the Newco.

[Don Giovanni]

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He's a Scottish journalist and presenter, mainly known for his political writing and presenting. He's well known for his on-air faux pas a few years ago when, introducing the then culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt, he replaced the H with a C. Seems he is a bit of a stupid Jeremy, himself.

Well, at least he got one thing right, even if it was by accident!

[ancient hibee]

Two clubs that dominated Scottish football-one went bust and the other one was within half an hour of going bust until rescued by a funny wee guy who did things properly and was roundly booed by his own fans for doing so.

What people like Naughtie or "characters" like Barton forget is that as a result of their chuntering on people can end up dead because moronic numpties take them seriously.

[Spike Mandela]

The only true thing James Naughtie has ever said.....

[Mikey09]

It gives me immense satisfaction that we totally ruined the Huns season in May... Celtic and Rangers away support are the dregs of the earth.