For those who don't like Sevco

[Ozyhibby]

I've not watched yet.


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[cocteautwin]

That's worth watching just to hear the result of Mo Johnston's application for the Murrayfield Golf Club.

[The Leith Dutch]

What this really reminds me of is why I dislike both sides of the old firm.

The fact that one side of them talks sh*te and hates us and the other side talks sh*te while doing a patronising arm round the shoulder like we're some sort of lesser relative (while secretly hating us because we're from Edinburgh) is not something that really makes me want to distinguish between them.

They're both a bunch of paranoid, bigoted, narcissistic ass hats and the sooner they're away from Scottish football the better it'll be.

[pacorosssco]

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What this really reminds me of is why I dislike both sides of the old firm.

The fact that one side of them talks sh*te and hates us and the other side talks sh*te while doing a patronising arm round the shoulder like we're some sort of lesser relative (while secretly hating us because we're from Edinburgh) is not something that really makes me want to distinguish between them.

They're both a bunch of paranoid, bigoted, narcissistic ass hats and the sooner they're away from Scottish football the better it'll be.

While it was a little bit interesting . Celtic are not the higher good. Parkhead a monument to Irish immigrants (if you know your history....) Both use religion to own agendas. No big secret Edinburgh establishment pulls the strings in ***in the rest of us and old school networks are the powers of this land but Celtic would have done the same if possible. Neither welcome a challenge from rest and both would abandone Scottish game if could. Flags neither big on the Saltire flag of Scotland, where we live. Looks like boy is from Edinburgh so highlighting problem of glory hunters supporting other cities teams. I seen an Irish hat on him too but had Scottish accent. Rangers have a real nasty side but Celtic are hypocrits. We would be well rid of both.

[Pretty Boy]

A Celtic supporter who lives in Edinburgh complaining about Edinburgh and bemoaning a segregated schooling system (albeit on class grounds rather than religion)? I've only watched about half and there's some interesting points but the chip on the shoulder and painting of Celtic as a bastion of virtue smarts very quickly.

[stuart-farquhar]

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A Celtic supporter who lives in Edinburgh complaining about Edinburgh and bemoaning a segregated schooling system (albeit on class grounds rather than religion)? I've only watched about half and there's some interesting points but the chip on the shoulder and painting of Celtic as a bastion of virtue smarts very quickly.

This reminds me that I actually have a serious dislike of Edinburgh born and bred people who support the Glasgow clubs. Let's face it there aren't many who choose Partick.

I wonder why they do eh!

[euro Hibby]

establishment, press, SFA and ref's .......no great surprises, I think football and business is run much on the same lines but once in a while there are surprises. Glad to be a Hibby !

[superfurryhibby]

Makes you wonder why the BBC couldn't do a proper expose of the extent of corruption amongst the establishment and Scottish football hierarchy.

I find it quite troubling that comments on here ignore the staggering levels of collusion and focus on incidentals like the fact the guy is from Edinburgh and supports Celtic. Does it really matter? These people stil run our game FFS.

The old divide and conquer ethos remains alive and well on Hibs net. Fill yer boots while the media and footballing authorities continue on their merry way. Meanwhile the game we profess to love continues to be in the hands of people like Regan. If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious.

[Spike Mandela]

There is a story there for any serious journalist to follow but the 'Edinburgh establishment', the SFA, the BBC and Scottish media will never let it happen from within Scotland.

If only some interbational investigative journalist or organisation could picki it up, but outside Scotland, who really cares?

[northstandhibby]

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This reminds me that I actually have a serious dislike of Edinburgh born and bred people who support the Glasgow clubs. Let's face it there aren't many who choose Partick.

I wonder why they do eh!

There are very probably a good few who support the weedge clubs because their past relatives supported them. It's why I'm a Hibernian supporter not because of any kind or religious allegiance but because my Dad followed the Hi bees everywhere and anywhere. I personally know a couple of Glasgow Hibernian supporters who follow the Hi bees because of family who moved to Glasgow and I know for a fact they would never switch allegiance to either of the weedge clubs.

Granted though there will be a vast number who are simply drawn to the open bigotry shown by both weedge clubs. But there are plenty of Hibernian supporters born out-with Edinburgh who follow the Hi bees.

I wish the Authorities would take a hard line on clubs whose supporters openly sing bigoted songs and it may just lead to a more respectful tolerance all round. Who knows pigs might fly one day?



Glory Glory

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Interesting piece.

Some of the celtic stuff in it is a bit annoying, but its obviously made with them in mind.

Raises some interesting points, although im not so sure its the edinburgh establishment as much as it is the scottish establishment.

Agree that people shouldn't dismiss it just like that, afterall many hibbies believe we get the same mistreatment at the hand of the same establishment.

The stuff about celtic in 94 is an interesting comparison, would be interested to know more

[Finn2015]

Leaving aside the nauseating end made to look like Celtic are the 'good guys' it is an interesting piece and I suspect much rings true. Rangers cheated everyone in Scottish football and we should never forget it, particularly when they have their perceived injustices which are actually born out of them not getting their own way as per

[Tinribs]

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That's worth watching just to hear the result of Mo Johnston's application for the Murrayfield Golf Club.

I genuinely laughed out loud at that bit too :)

I know the chap who sold Mo his first house in Edinburgh when he joined Rangers, he bumped into him a few months later and enquired how he liked it..Mo said "aye it's awright, but ma burd dusnae like the neighbors". Classic :)

[Cat Stanton]

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I've not watched yet.


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If you still haven't, I wouldn't bother. There's nothing really new in it other than it's a story retold from a particular Celtc point of view (ie the kind of Celtc point of view that stops you wanting to watch) with additional Celtc paranoia.

And the guy (and his expert pal) are just irritating.

[Finn2015]

It is annoying cos there is a story here but the presentation of it and the Celtic bias has served to devalue it. When oldco cheated, it cheated ALL of Scottish football not just Celtic. The presenter would do well to remember and acknowledge that

[Spike Mandela]

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It is annoying cos there is a story here but the presentation of it and the Celtic bias has served to devalue it. When oldco cheated, it cheated ALL of Scottish football not just Celtic. The presenter would do well to remember and acknowledge that

Just because a Celtic supporter sees things from a Celtic point of view regarding Rangers cheating (and being allowed to cheat) doesn't devalue the story one iota.

It's up to other clubs and their fans to add their voices to the disgust that these cheating *******s can get away with it and instead play some kind of victim card. We must never let these Govan cheats forget what their club did to itself and how their titles in this period were tainted and won by a now extinct football club.

[superfurryhibby]

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Just because a Celtic supporter sees things from a Celtic point of view regarding Rangers cheating (and being allowed to cheat) doesn't devalue the story one iota.

It's up to other clubs and their fans to add their voices to the disgust that these cheating *******s can get away with it and instead play some kind of victim card. We must never let these Govan cheats forget what their club did to itself and how their titles in this period were tainted and won by a now extinct football club.

This, all the way.

The status quo rests on peoples continuing ignorance. Campbell Ogilvie, a key figure in the oldco regime and a man implicated in the whole ebt cheating fiasco only left his post as President of the Sweet FA a year or two ago.

Don't let your or others prejudice get in the way of the facts. The presenter is an ordinary enough bloke. He loves his team and yes, has some focus on Celtics treatment at the hands of the media, SFA etc. Don't let that undermine one of the best analysis of what has gone on. If everyone knows this stuff, like some claim, then how the **** has it been allowed to continue?

If you care about Scottish Football then watch this, well worth a 15 minute view.

[Finn2015]

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Just because a Celtic supporter sees things from a Celtic point of view regarding Rangers cheating (and being allowed to cheat) doesn't devalue the story one iota.

It's up to other clubs and their fans to add their voices to the disgust that these cheating *******s can get away with it and instead play some kind of victim card. We must never let these Govan cheats forget what their club did to itself and how their titles in this period were tainted and won by a now extinct football club.

Sorry but I think the above video is a chance missed in thi regard. Yes, other clubs support have to shout out to but in the context of this video, they could have built a groundswell and good faith and support from many others instead of just being told from the perspective of the Celtic support

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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This, all the way.

The status quo rests on peoples continuing ignorance. Campbell Ogilvie, a key figure in the oldco regime and a man implicated in the whole ebt cheating fiasco only left his post as President of the Sweet FA a year or two ago.

Don't let your or others prejudice get in the way of the facts. The presenter is an ordinary enough bloke. He loves his team and yes, has some focus on Celtics treatment at the hands of the media, SFA etc. Don't let that undermine one of the best analysis of what has gone on. If everyone knows this stuff, like some claim, then how the **** has it been allowed to continue?

If you care about Scottish Football then watch this, well worth a 15 minute view.

Agree, we shouldnt be shooting the messenger.

[snooky]

This is thre same Celtc that cuddled up to the now defunct RFC to maintain a stranglehold on Scottish Football financially and politically. (10-2 votes come to mind). There is nothing pure about either of them. Best fans in Europe - the biggest Pinocchio of them all.
Nothing particularly new in this video except that it's served up with a bitter lemon acting as the main course.

[Wee Effen Bee]

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This, all the way.

The status quo rests on peoples continuing ignorance. Campbell Ogilvie, a key figure in the oldco regime and a man implicated in the whole ebt cheating fiasco only left his post as President of the Sweet FA a year or two ago.

Don't let your or others prejudice get in the way of the facts. The presenter is an ordinary enough bloke. He loves his team and yes, has some focus on Celtics treatment at the hands of the media, SFA etc. Don't let that undermine one of the best analysis of what has gone on. If everyone knows this stuff, like some claim, then how the **** has it been allowed to continue?

If you care about Scottish Football then watch this, well worth a 15 minute view.

I have to agree, I think this is decently researched. It is put together well and is generally a good wee piece...albeit it has an inherent Celtic bias which does forget we were all royally shafted. Remember when the banks said we were toxic and they appeared to be supporting Mercer's bid to take us over and shut us down? We owed them the equivalent of 30 bob and a nudey book compared to the level of debt the Huns owed.
The establishment is still full of old/new Huns.

[NAE NOOKIE]

An interesting watch and without doubt there's a great deal of truth in it ...... Rangers 1872 were undoubtedly allowed to continue as a runaway train long after they should have hit the buffers and a lot of that had to do with Murray's connections and his ability to manipulate those connections. Edinburgh is the seat of power in Scotland, from the judiciary and banking to politics ... only the media is Glasgow centric ..... so its the 'Edinburgh' establishment by default.

From that point of view and his continuous reference to the 'Edinburgh' establishment it almost moves from 'the establishment were trying to help Rangers at the expense of Celtic' to 'Edinburgh tried to help Rangers at the expense of Celtic'.

The biggest fault in the whole piece is that through his Glasgow green tinted specs he tries to imply that the whole of Scottish football should be greetin' into their porridge at the plight of poor old Celtic, who were obviously denied title after title and cup after cup by the nasty auld Edinburgh establishment, that may well be true ... but to infer that if that hadn't happened Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc would have had a fair kick at the ba' on a level playing field is utter nonsense. We all know the truth is that both clubs have continually backed each other when it suited them in order to carve up the lions share of any money coming onto Scottish football. Both clubs have historically hammered any threat by buying up talent from the other clubs and then sticking them on the bench or in the reserves, without any sign of most of them ever becoming first team players.

Like other folk on this thread I haven't missed the irony here. The biggest problem non OF clubs have faced historically ( much worse than any real or perceived interference from 'the establishment ) is trying to stop the leeching of their potential supporters to the ugly sisters ... Edinburgh has two ( now three ) league clubs, and yet here is one of our own greetin' about how the poor club in a city 40 miles away that he has chosen to support over his local clubs has had a raw deal. Well boo ***in' hoo mate ..... If you are so concerned about Scottish football being 'fair' and played on a level playing field, perhaps you should write a book and make a wee film on You Tube about the virtues of supporting your home town club ...... perhaps then the 2000 or so folk who desert Motherwell & Wishaw to follow Celtic and Rangers on a Saturday would be changing Motherwell's home crowds to 7,000 instead of 5,000.

Aye, but ma dad supported them ..... well that's probably because he was an old firm glory hunter as well. He can pontificate all he wants .. if you aint part of the solution you are part of the problem !!! .... he can take Celtic and stick them right up his arse !!!

[Finn2015]

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An interesting watch and without doubt there's a great deal of truth in it ...... Rangers 1872 were undoubtedly allowed to continue as a runaway train long after they should have hit the buffers and a lot of that had to do with Murray's connections and his ability to manipulate those connections. Edinburgh is the seat of power in Scotland, from the judiciary and banking to politics ... only the media is Glasgow centric ..... so its the 'Edinburgh' establishment by default.

From that point of view and his continuous reference to the 'Edinburgh' establishment it almost moves from 'the establishment were trying to help Rangers at the expense of Celtic' to 'Edinburgh tried to help Rangers at the expense of Celtic'.

The biggest fault in the whole piece is that through his Glasgow green tinted specs he tries to imply that the whole of Scottish football should be greetin' into their porridge at the plight of poor old Celtic, who were obviously denied title after title and cup after cup by the nasty auld Edinburgh establishment and if that hadn't happened Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc would have had a fair kick at the ba' on a level playing field along with the Old Firm. Whereas we all know the truth is that both clubs have continually backed each other when it suited them in order to carve up the lions share of any money coming onto Scottish football. Both clubs have historically hammered any threat by buying up talent from the other clubs and then sticking them on the bench or in the reserves, without any sign of most of them ever becoming first team players.

Like other folk on this thread I haven't missed the irony here. The biggest problem non OF clubs have faced historically ( much worse than any real or perceived interference from 'the establishment ) is trying to stop the leeching of their potential supporters to the ugly sisters ... Edinburgh has two ( now three ) league clubs, and yet here is one of our own greetin' about how the poor club in a city 40 miles away that he has chosen to support over his local clubs has had a raw deal. Well boo ***in' hoo mate ..... If you are so concerned about Scottish football being 'fair' and played on a level playing field, perhaps you should write a book and make a wee film on You Tube about the virtues of supporting your home town club ...... perhaps then the 2000 or so folk who desert Motherwell & Wishaw to follow Celtic and Rangers on a Saturday would be changing Motherwell's home crowds to 7,000 instead of 5,000.

Aye, but ma dad supported them ..... well that's probably because he was an old firm glory hunter as well. He can pontificate all he wants .. if you aint part of the solution you are part of the problem !!! .... he can take Celtic and stick them right up his arse !!!

👍👍👍👍 fantastic

[KSA Hibee]

Well that's a video I can't discuss with the others .. I lasted 17 seconds and felt the bile rise .. Done button promptly hit .. I really do hate that mob and all they stand for.

[Spike Mandela]

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An interesting watch and without doubt there's a great deal of truth in it ...... Rangers 1872 were undoubtedly allowed to continue as a runaway train long after they should have hit the buffers and a lot of that had to do with Murray's connections and his ability to manipulate those connections. Edinburgh is the seat of power in Scotland, from the judiciary and banking to politics ... only the media is Glasgow centric ..... so its the 'Edinburgh' establishment by default.

From that point of view and his continuous reference to the 'Edinburgh' establishment it almost moves from 'the establishment were trying to help Rangers at the expense of Celtic' to 'Edinburgh tried to help Rangers at the expense of Celtic'.

The biggest fault in the whole piece is that through his Glasgow green tinted specs he tries to imply that the whole of Scottish football should be greetin' into their porridge at the plight of poor old Celtic, who were obviously denied title after title and cup after cup by the nasty auld Edinburgh establishment, that may well be true ... but to infer that if that hadn't happened Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc would have had a fair kick at the ba' on a level playing field is utter nonsense. We all know the truth is that both clubs have continually backed each other when it suited them in order to carve up the lions share of any money coming onto Scottish football. Both clubs have historically hammered any threat by buying up talent from the other clubs and then sticking them on the bench or in the reserves, without any sign of most of them ever becoming first team players.

Like other folk on this thread I haven't missed the irony here. The biggest problem non OF clubs have faced historically ( much worse than any real or perceived interference from 'the establishment ) is trying to stop the leeching of their potential supporters to the ugly sisters ... Edinburgh has two ( now three ) league clubs, and yet here is one of our own greetin' about how the poor club in a city 40 miles away that he has chosen to support over his local clubs has had a raw deal. Well boo ***in' hoo mate ..... If you are so concerned about Scottish football being 'fair' and played on a level playing field, perhaps you should write a book and make a wee film on You Tube about the virtues of supporting your home town club ...... perhaps then the 2000 or so folk who desert Motherwell & Wishaw to follow Celtic and Rangers on a Saturday would be changing Motherwell's home crowds to 7,000 instead of 5,000.

Aye, but ma dad supported them ..... well that's probably because he was an old firm glory hunter as well. He can pontificate all he wants .. if you aint part of the solution you are part of the problem !!! .... he can take Celtic and stick them right up his arse !!!

So we are happy to sit back and watch Rangers get away with endemic and systematic cheating and financial doping on a massive scale with the aid of the SFA, SPFL and the Scottish media just because we dinnae like Celtic either?

Classic 'whataboutery'. With attitudes like that all our clubs deserve to get ripped off in the rigged game up here and establishment bully boys like Rangers will just walk all over us again

[Ozyhibby]

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So we are happy to sit back and watch Rangers get away with endemic and systematic cheating and financial doping on a massive scale with the aid of the SFA, SPFL and the Scottish media just because we dinnae like Celtic either?

Classic 'whataboutery'. With attitudes like that all our clubs deserve to get ripped off in the rigged game up here and establishment bully boys like Rangers will just walk all over us again

That seems to be what people are saying. Sad.


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[AndyM_1875]

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So we are happy to sit back and watch Rangers get away with endemic and systematic cheating and financial doping on a massive scale with the aid of the SFA, SPFL and the Scottish media just because we dinnae like Celtic either?

Classic 'whataboutery'. With attitudes like that all our clubs deserve to get ripped off in the rigged game up here and establishment bully boys like Rangers will just walk all over us again

Get away with it? Unfortunately they have got away with it. They're playing in the Premiership now. Whether they are "back" or not is up to your personal point of view. I really don't care. I hated them before and I continue to despise them.

But listening to the greetin' from an Edinburgh based Celtic fan is kind of laughable as he rails against the injustices of Scottish Football. That would be the same Celtic who ran up over 30m in Bank Debt to pay for a team their Turnover could not afford, dabbled with EBTs and encouraged both Players & Directors at individual levels to use personal tax avoidance schemes. Hmm.....

On top of that you had Dundee crashing into Adminstration & going bust. Twice.
To say nothing of our friends across the City who won two Scottish Cups despite being 29m in debt (later written off in Administration) and unable often to pay their players as well as burning the Tax man for 1.5m.

There was no conspiracy here. Clubs did this because they could and there was nothing stopping them. No League Rules on debts/losses. No Accounts inspection.
Other clubs who cut their cloth accordingly and cut costs and paid back debts like Hibs, St Mirren and Falkirk were not exactly rewarded for their prudence. Neither were clubs who never had any money to begin with like Morton or Raith Rovers. They are all playing in the second tier whilst those who broke the rules essentially got away with it.

[Ozyhibby]

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Get away with it? Unfortunately they have got away with it. They're playing in the Premiership now. Whether they are "back" or not is up to your personal point of view. I really don't care. I hated them before and I continue to despise them.

But listening to the greetin' from an Edinburgh based Celtic fan is kind of laughable as he rails against the injustices of Scottish Football. That would be the same Celtic who ran up over 30m in Bank Debt to pay for a team their Turnover could not afford, dabbled with EBTs and encouraged both Players & Directors at individual levels to use personal tax avoidance schemes. Hmm.....

On top of that you had Dundee crashing into Adminstration & going bust. Twice.
To say nothing of our friends across the City who won two Scottish Cups despite being 29m in debt (later written off in Administration) and unable often to pay their players as well as burning the Tax man for 1.5m.

There was no conspiracy here. Clubs did this because they could and there was nothing stopping them. No League Rules on debts/losses. No Accounts inspection.
Other clubs who cut their cloth accordingly and cut costs and paid back debts like Hibs, St Mirren and Falkirk were not exactly rewarded for their prudence. Neither were clubs who never had any money to begin with like Morton or Raith Rovers. They are all playing in the second tier whilst those who broke the rules essentially got away with it.

Celtic paid off their debt? Any evidence Celtic encouraged anyone to use personal tax avoidance schemes?


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[AndyM_1875]

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Celtic paid off their debt? Any evidence Celtic encouraged anyone to use personal tax avoidance schemes?


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No. It's still in their accounts. It was to a soft loan with the Co-Operative bank. Sitting at approx £34m.

As for the second point. Google is your friend and you'll have to make your mind up.
Why for example did our current manager and his colleagues Hartson, Sutton, Mjalby , Thomson, Sylla and Bellamy amongst others invest in for example film companies, set up with the express purpose of being a tax avoidance vehicle. Why did Eric Riley, Peter Lawell and Martin O'Neill all do similar? Like EBTs they weren't illegal at the time. But like them they've been now been called out and the tax demands are dropping through their doors.

[Ozyhibby]

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No. It's still in their accounts. It was to a soft loan with the Co-Operative bank. Sitting at approx £34m.

As for the second point. Google is your friend and you'll have to make your mind up.
Why for example did our current manager and his colleagues Hartson, Sutton, Mjalby , Thomson, Sylla and Bellamy amongst others invest in for example film companies, set up with the express purpose of being a tax avoidance vehicle. Why did Eric Riley, Peter Lawell and Martin O'Neill all do similar? Like EBTs they weren't illegal at the time. But like them they've been now been called out and the tax demands are dropping through their doors.

And Celtics involvement? My understanding was that these schemes were promoted through agents and among players themselves.
Is the loan with the co-op in arrears?


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