Stubbs - the case for the defence

[Smartie]

Right, tin hat on…….

I've been very critical of Alan Stubbs over the past couple of months. I don't think he's done at all well since the game at Ibrox in December. His patter in the run-up to the game was poor and he handed The Rangers the result in that game. He followed that up with a ropey transfer window (his first poor one though to be fair) and some of his tactical decisions over the past month or so have been truly baffling.

Tonight was a vast improvement for the majority of the game. We attacked with purpose and played with an intensity that has been sadly lacking for a long time. Stokes and Cummings linked up well and the formation suited the players. We defended well until the last 5 minutes, our keeper made an outstanding save and we kept our cool whilst a team attempted to kick lumps out of us - while we got little protection from the referee. I thought Stubbs got his subs right - injury enforced and with an eye on Saturday. Playing at home against ten men Stubbs should not be having to make changes in formation or personnel with defending that lead in mind.

We were undone by an inability to deal with a couple of high balls into the box - fairly unforgivable stuff. Short of pulling his boots on, getting out there and sticking the head on them himself (which tbh I reckon he probably could still do better than the numpties that failed to) I don't know what he's expected to do. The players let him down tonight whereas I think it has probably been the other way round for the past few months.

I was really concerned after Saturday and was starting to drift towards the "Stubbs must go" camp. But tonight, even though it was a cripplingly disappointing result I saw enough to suggest that we can go on and do what we need to do to get ourselves promoted and I don't know if I've felt so sure this side of Christmas. At 85 minutes nobody inside that stadium could say that we hadn't played well and that we weren't good value for what seemed to be a deserved win. Failing to deal with a couple of crosses late in the game is not going to make me change my opinion on that either.

I really hope the players don't dwell on this and that they pick themselves up as United are there for the taking this Saturday. And hopefully then we can kick on and finish the league campaign strongly.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Excellent post

[hibee]

Well said, we played well tonight and I believe we can beat Utd on Saturday too.

[DaveF]

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Right, tin hat on…….

I've been very critical of Alan Stubbs over the past couple of months. I don't think he's done at all well since the game at Ibrox in December. His patter in the run-up to the game was poor and he handed The Rangers the result in that game. He followed that up with a ropey transfer window (his first poor one though to be fair) and some of his tactical decisions over the past month or so have been truly baffling.

Tonight was a vast improvement for the majority of the game. We attacked with purpose and played with an intensity that has been sadly lacking for a long time. Stokes and Cummings linked up well and the formation suited the players. We defended well until the last 5 minutes, our keeper made an outstanding save and we kept our cool whilst a team attempted to kick lumps out of us - while we got little protection from the referee. I thought Stubbs got his subs right - injury enforced and with an eye on Saturday. Playing at home against ten men Stubbs should not be having to make changes in formation or personnel with defending that lead in mind.

We were undone by an inability to deal with a couple of high balls into the box - fairly unforgivable stuff. Short of pulling his boots on, getting out there and sticking the head on them himself (which tbh I reckon he probably could still do better than the numpties that failed to) I don't know what he's expected to do. The players let him down tonight whereas I think it has probably been the other way round for the past few months.

I was really concerned after Saturday and was starting to drift towards the "Stubbs must go" camp. But tonight, even though it was a cripplingly disappointing result I saw enough to suggest that we can go on and do what we need to do to get ourselves promoted and I don't know if I've felt so sure this side of Christmas. At 85 minutes nobody inside that stadium could say that we hadn't played well and that we weren't good value for what seemed to be a deserved win. Failing to deal with a couple of crosses late in the game is not going to make me change my opinion on that either.

I really hope the players don't dwell on this and that they pick themselves up as United are there for the taking this Saturday. And hopefully then we can kick on and finish the league campaign strongly.

A decent post, but the bit in bold has been a constant theme for a long time now. I agree with the improvement in our performance going forward but if we continue to be as generous at the back then we are pishing into the wind for Saturday and beyond.

It's basic defending and we are not doing it well.

[Hi Heid Yin]

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Right, tin hat on…….

I've been very critical of Alan Stubbs over the past couple of months. I don't think he's done at all well since the game at Ibrox in December. His patter in the run-up to the game was poor and he handed The Rangers the result in that game. He followed that up with a ropey transfer window (his first poor one though to be fair) and some of his tactical decisions over the past month or so have been truly baffling.

Tonight was a vast improvement for the majority of the game. We attacked with purpose and played with an intensity that has been sadly lacking for a long time. Stokes and Cummings linked up well and the formation suited the players. We defended well until the last 5 minutes, our keeper made an outstanding save and we kept our cool whilst a team attempted to kick lumps out of us - while we got little protection from the referee. I thought Stubbs got his subs right - injury enforced and with an eye on Saturday. Playing at home against ten men Stubbs should not be having to make changes in formation or personnel with defending that lead in mind.

We were undone by an inability to deal with a couple of high balls into the box - fairly unforgivable stuff. Short of pulling his boots on, getting out there and sticking the head on them himself (which tbh I reckon he probably could still do better than the numpties that failed to) I don't know what he's expected to do. The players let him down tonight whereas I think it has probably been the other way round for the past few months.

I was really concerned after Saturday and was starting to drift towards the "Stubbs must go" camp. But tonight, even though it was a cripplingly disappointing result I saw enough to suggest that we can go on and do what we need to do to get ourselves promoted and I don't know if I've felt so sure this side of Christmas. At 85 minutes nobody inside that stadium could say that we hadn't played well and that we weren't good value for what seemed to be a deserved win. Failing to deal with a couple of crosses late in the game is not going to make me change my opinion on that either.

I really hope the players don't dwell on this and that they pick themselves up as United are there for the taking this Saturday. And hopefully then we can kick on and finish the league campaign strongly.

Good sound post. I have spent much of this evening arguing much the same in other threads.
The players let Stubbs down tonight....and only in those last 5 minutes...forgetting to do a basic professional job in seeing the game out.
There was much to be admired in our performance against Falkirk and certainly there were signs that the corner had been turned in terms of performance and demonstrating our superior quality.
Falkirk knew they got out of jail and they know also that again they have failed to beat us after 4 attempts. We are in their heads and they know that they can only offer dig and fight and simply can't compete against us football-wise.

[0762]

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Well said, we played well tonight and I believe we can beat Utd on Saturday too.

I agree on both points. But it needs a full 90mins performance to win a game and we just cant seem to put in that performance these days.

[rotherhamrob]

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Right, tin hat on…….

I've been very critical of Alan Stubbs over the past couple of months. I don't think he's done at all well since the game at Ibrox in December. His patter in the run-up to the game was poor and he handed The Rangers the result in that game. He followed that up with a ropey transfer window (his first poor one though to be fair) and some of his tactical decisions over the past month or so have been truly baffling.

Tonight was a vast improvement for the majority of the game. We attacked with purpose and played with an intensity that has been sadly lacking for a long time. Stokes and Cummings linked up well and the formation suited the players. We defended well until the last 5 minutes, our keeper made an outstanding save and we kept our cool whilst a team attempted to kick lumps out of us - while we got little protection from the referee. I thought Stubbs got his subs right - injury enforced and with an eye on Saturday. Playing at home against ten men Stubbs should not be having to make changes in formation or personnel with defending that lead in mind.

We were undone by an inability to deal with a couple of high balls into the box - fairly unforgivable stuff. Short of pulling his boots on, getting out there and sticking the head on them himself (which tbh I reckon he probably could still do better than the numpties that failed to) I don't know what he's expected to do. The players let him down tonight whereas I think it has probably been the other way round for the past few months.

I was really concerned after Saturday and was starting to drift towards the "Stubbs must go" camp. But tonight, even though it was a cripplingly disappointing result I saw enough to suggest that we can go on and do what we need to do to get ourselves promoted and I don't know if I've felt so sure this side of Christmas. At 85 minutes nobody inside that stadium could say that we hadn't played well and that we weren't good value for what seemed to be a deserved win. Failing to deal with a couple of crosses late in the game is not going to make me change my opinion on that either.

I really hope the players don't dwell on this and that they pick themselves up as United are there for the taking this Saturday. And hopefully then we can kick on and finish the league campaign strongly.

Spot on,I strongly fancy us to do falkirk in the play-offs and raith if we need to as I just can't see either of them beating us over 2 legs.

[gaz1875]

The team was much more balanced, we even managed to get some pace into the game. Falkirk never looked like scoring until we started defending on our 18 yard box, something we have seen time and time again. Hanlon and McGregor should have been pushing everyone forward to stop the crosses getting to them that was the downfall.

[Captain Trips]

I would say if a manager needs a case for his defence in this league after nearly 2 seasons then the writing is on the wall. Should we not be discussing how we are going to finish 2nd comfortably with the squad and facilities we had to our advantage?

It's a great OP but the fact it needs to be brought up says to me he has no defence.

[shamo9]

It's odd because we were really solid defensively until the 3-0 reverse against Morton. Since that game we've kept a clean sheet once! We've always been wasteful in front of goal but our ability to grind out results has completely vanished. Every match now we give away something incredibly sloppy and avoidable.

I can't understand why our defence has become rotten. I thought it was Hanlon's absence but he's back and we still look so fragile.

[gaz1875]

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It's odd because we were really solid defensively until the 3-0 reverse against Morton. Since that game we've kept a clean sheet once! We've always been wasteful in front of goal but our ability to grind out results has completely vanished. Every match now we give away something incredibly sloppy and avoidable.

I can't understand why our defence has become rotten. I thought it was Hanlon's absence but he's back and we still look so fragile.

It could be down to all the changing of players and no real partnerships being formed. For me Fontaine although not faultless has a bit composure, he is confident with the ball and happy to go forward. I think him and Hanlon were our best partnership but again injuries have put paid to that.

[E10 Rifle]

Argue all you want but for me he's done, not now, but at the end of the season by mutual consent. We need someone more familiar with the Scottish game. I like McKinnon at Raith but I'd also go for McCall (yep, the ex Hun). Stubbs may have produced a more balanced team tonight but he's making an erse of this. Too narrow. Didn't use Boyle enough (keeping him out wide would have had two players with an eye on him creating more space in the middle). Stuck with an out-of-touch McGinn for too long. Bartley should have been subbed 15 mins earlier as he risked a red. And we're going into the weekend with an untried keeper as he didn't use one against either team over the last few days. He's a busted flush at this stage.

[Smartie]

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I would say if a manager needs a case for his defence in this league after nearly 2 seasons then the writing is on the wall. Should we not be discussing how we are going to finish 2nd comfortably with the squad and facilities we had to our advantage?

It's a great OP but the fact it needs to be brought up says to me he has no defence.

I largely agree with your point tbf, and if come the end of the season we've not been promoted then I think we really have to ask that question.

Stubbs is getting dogs abuse tonight, which you would expect given we've just chucked a 2 goal lead against 10 men in the last few minutes of such an important game.

But our hopes are still alive, we're still in the cup and we still have a chance of promotion. We've played well at times this season and based purely on what I saw tonight I think we can still play well enough to do what is required of us.

We have been struggling for months and Stubbs hadn't shown much evidence that he knew why we were struggling or what he was going to do to chance things for the better. Tonight he did and I think he deserves our support in his efforts to get us over the finishing line.

The post-mortem into why we either failed or didn't do it in enough style can come at the end of the season.

[matty_f]

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Right, tin hat on…….

I've been very critical of Alan Stubbs over the past couple of months. I don't think he's done at all well since the game at Ibrox in December. His patter in the run-up to the game was poor and he handed The Rangers the result in that game. He followed that up with a ropey transfer window (his first poor one though to be fair) and some of his tactical decisions over the past month or so have been truly baffling.

Tonight was a vast improvement for the majority of the game. We attacked with purpose and played with an intensity that has been sadly lacking for a long time. Stokes and Cummings linked up well and the formation suited the players. We defended well until the last 5 minutes, our keeper made an outstanding save and we kept our cool whilst a team attempted to kick lumps out of us - while we got little protection from the referee. I thought Stubbs got his subs right - injury enforced and with an eye on Saturday. Playing at home against ten men Stubbs should not be having to make changes in formation or personnel with defending that lead in mind.

We were undone by an inability to deal with a couple of high balls into the box - fairly unforgivable stuff. Short of pulling his boots on, getting out there and sticking the head on them himself (which tbh I reckon he probably could still do better than the numpties that failed to) I don't know what he's expected to do. The players let him down tonight whereas I think it has probably been the other way round for the past few months.

I was really concerned after Saturday and was starting to drift towards the "Stubbs must go" camp. But tonight, even though it was a cripplingly disappointing result I saw enough to suggest that we can go on and do what we need to do to get ourselves promoted and I don't know if I've felt so sure this side of Christmas. At 85 minutes nobody inside that stadium could say that we hadn't played well and that we weren't good value for what seemed to be a deserved win. Failing to deal with a couple of crosses late in the game is not going to make me change my opinion on that either.

I really hope the players don't dwell on this and that they pick themselves up as United are there for the taking this Saturday. And hopefully then we can kick on and finish the league campaign strongly.

Good post.

[emerald green]

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We were undone by an inability to deal with a couple of high balls into the box - fairly unforgivable stuff. Short of pulling his boots on, getting out there and sticking the head on them himself (which tbh I reckon he probably could still do better than the numpties that failed to) I don't know what he's expected to do. The players let him down tonight whereas I think it has probably been the other way round for the past few months.

That's exactly what Houston said, ages ago, Hibs couldn't do. He basically pointed it out as a weakness he had seen. It's not as if they hadn't been warned, and that's what Falkirk would do given the chance.

They never seem to learn, or are they just not good enough? Or, has Stubbs not had them practicing defending balls into the box?

[Ozyhibby]

I don't think the club will act now. He will be here till the end of the season.
It's possible we will recover some form and if we do there is a chance we can get through the play offs. Every team we will face has a smaller budget than us and does not have as good players. I desperately hope that we can battle our way through and get promotion.
Then the fun will begin as at that point I will be arguing that he needs replaced for the new season while this board will have recovered its happy clapper mojo and will be saying he should stay as its mission accomplished.
Let's hope it pans out like that.


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[The_Horde]

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That's exactly what Houston said, ages ago, Hibs couldn't do. He basically pointed it out as a weakness he had seen. It's not as if they hadn't been warned, and that's what Falkirk would do given the chance.

They never seem to learn, or are they just not good enough? Or, has Stubbs not had them practicing defending balls into the box?

Never read so much tosh. It didn't work for 85 minutes. We've switched off for 5 mins but this teams proven this season that they can deal with it.

[matty_f]

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Never read so much tosh. It didn't work for 85 minutes. We've switched off for 5 mins but this teams proven this season that they can deal with it.

[Paisley Hibby]

A better performance than at Alloa but that's not saying much!! We were gifted the first goal and our second was a penalty. Other than that we were once again ponderous and predictable up front, AS HAS NEARLY ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE SINCE STUBBS TOOK OVER.

[emerald green]

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Never read so much tosh. It didn't work for 85 minutes. We've switched off for 5 mins but this teams proven this season that they can deal with it.

I could say the same about your post.

It didn't work for 85 minutes you say, but then switch off for 5 minutes (lol), and couldn't deal with 2 high balls into the box and it cost the team 2 goals and priceless points? Are you saying Houston didn't suggest Hibs were poor at defending high balls into the box? Like the two tonight?

Have you seen some of the other goals Hibs have lost this season? Off the top of my head, Nade's headed goal at Dumbarton.

EDIT: See post#21 too.

[Smartie]

I've just watched the goals on SkyNews.

The first one is horrible, no idea how McGregor managed to lose McCracken and let him get a free header. He seemed to get drawn towards Hanlon's man.

The second one is very like the second goal we lost at Raith - set-piece, lost the first header then lost the second header - two headers in the box and it is a goal. When the ball goes into the box there is nobody anywhere near the man who scored - miserable stuff from our point of view.

The marking at both goals was absolutely horrific. God knows how we managed to lose our concentration so badly.

TBH this is the kind of thing that should be bread and butter for our defenders and you would hope/think that Stubbs will be able to iron mistakes like this out. No team will ever win anything as long as they are giving away goals like that.

[SlickShoes]

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I've just watched the goals on SkyNews.

The first one is horrible, no idea how McGregor managed to lose McCracken and let him get a free header. He seemed to get drawn towards Hanlon's man.

The second one is very like the second goal we lost at Raith - set-piece, lost the first header then lost the second header - two headers in the box and it is a goal. When the ball goes into the box there is nobody anywhere near the man who scored - miserable stuff from our point of view.

The marking at both goals was absolutely horrific. God knows how we managed to lose our concentration so badly.

TBH this is the kind of thing that should be bread and butter for our defenders and you would hope/think that Stubbs will be able to iron mistakes like this out. No team will ever win anything as long as they are giving away goals like that.

How many years do we give him to iron out the mistakes? Our goals tonight were very lucky and didn't really show much change in our ability to take our chances at all.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Right, tin hat on…….

I've been very critical of Alan Stubbs over the past couple of months. I don't think he's done at all well since the game at Ibrox in December. His patter in the run-up to the game was poor and he handed The Rangers the result in that game. He followed that up with a ropey transfer window (his first poor one though to be fair) and some of his tactical decisions over the past month or so have been truly baffling.

Tonight was a vast improvement for the majority of the game. We attacked with purpose and played with an intensity that has been sadly lacking for a long time. Stokes and Cummings linked up well and the formation suited the players. We defended well until the last 5 minutes, our keeper made an outstanding save and we kept our cool whilst a team attempted to kick lumps out of us - while we got little protection from the referee. I thought Stubbs got his subs right - injury enforced and with an eye on Saturday. Playing at home against ten men Stubbs should not be having to make changes in formation or personnel with defending that lead in mind.

We were undone by an inability to deal with a couple of high balls into the box - fairly unforgivable stuff. Short of pulling his boots on, getting out there and sticking the head on them himself (which tbh I reckon he probably could still do better than the numpties that failed to) I don't know what he's expected to do. The players let him down tonight whereas I think it has probably been the other way round for the past few months.

I was really concerned after Saturday and was starting to drift towards the "Stubbs must go" camp. But tonight, even though it was a cripplingly disappointing result I saw enough to suggest that we can go on and do what we need to do to get ourselves promoted and I don't know if I've felt so sure this side of Christmas. At 85 minutes nobody inside that stadium could say that we hadn't played well and that we weren't good value for what seemed to be a deserved win. Failing to deal with a couple of crosses late in the game is not going to make me change my opinion on that either.

I really hope the players don't dwell on this and that they pick themselves up as United are there for the taking this Saturday. And hopefully then we can kick on and finish the league campaign strongly.

Thank goodness for this post, it sums up perfectly how tonight should be viewed. I was absolutely gutted at full time because we had in the space of 5 minutes blown what would have probably been our best performance for two months, not a perfect one by any means but a lot better than our recent efforts.

There's gonna' be a lot of folk coming out with the 'typical Hibs', 'same old Hibs' stuff after tonight and its a real shame because if it hadn't been for the players ( not the manager ) failing to carry out basic game management for 10 minutes this would have been a really positive result and performance from us.

The other downside is that this result isn't going to shift many more semi final tickets between now and Saturday ...... but that's something we are just going to have to live with now .............. I dunno about other folk on this forum, or elsewhere for that matter, but I'm ****ed if I'm chucking in the towel after tonight and I hope the players wont either, because its still all there for them.

[matty_f]

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Thank goodness for this post, it sums up perfectly how tonight should be viewed. I was absolutely gutted at full time because we had in the space of 5 minutes blown what would have probably been our best performance for two months, not a perfect one by any means but a lot better than our recent efforts.

There's gonna' be a lot of folk coming out with the 'typical Hibs', 'same old Hibs' stuff after tonight and its a real shame because if it hadn't been for the players ( not the manager ) failing to carry out basic game management for 10 minutes this would have been a really positive result and performance from us.

The other downside is that this result isn't going to shift many more semi final tickets between now and Saturday ...... but that's something we are just going to have to live with now .............. I dunno about other folk on this forum, or elsewhere for that matter, but I'm ****ed if I'm chucking in the towel after tonight and I hope the players wont either, because its still all there for them.

[SlickShoes]

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Thank goodness for this post, it sums up perfectly how tonight should be viewed. I was absolutely gutted at full time because we had in the space of 5 minutes blown what would have probably been our best performance for two months, not a perfect one by any means but a lot better than our recent efforts.

There's gonna' be a lot of folk coming out with the 'typical Hibs', 'same old Hibs' stuff after tonight and its a real shame because if it hadn't been for the players ( not the manager ) failing to carry out basic game management for 10 minutes this would have been a really positive result and performance from us.

The other downside is that this result isn't going to shift many more semi final tickets between now and Saturday ...... but that's something we are just going to have to live with now .............. I dunno about other folk on this forum, or elsewhere for that matter, but I'm ****ed if I'm chucking in the towel after tonight and I hope the players wont either, because its still all there for them.

Would have been, played well until, decent performance apart from, it's all we've heard for years, the more people think that just playing decently for 80 minutes is something to be proud of the more depressing our decline becomes.

[marinello59]

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Never read so much tosh. It didn't work for 85 minutes. We've switched off for 5 mins but this teams proven this season that they can deal with it.

It's a pity the game is played over 90 minutes rather than 85 then.

[Boyle89]

I was working tonight so I have had to make do with the highlights. My faith in Stubbs is wearing thin to the point of breaking but IMO he isn't at fault tonight.
Firstly the ref. How we didn't get 3 pens is beyond me! 1st when Cummings goes through and goes past Rogers and it's given offside. From the replay he looks at least 2 yards ON. Second when Cummings is in the box and the defender just bundles him over and the ref gives a goal kick! If it's a goal kick then the defender didn't touch the ball and took out the man how is that not a pen?
Then there is the defending for both Falkirk goals. Both goals there is a player wide open to get a head on the ball. Horrendous marking from so called defenders on both occasions.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Would have been, played well until, decent performance apart from, it's all we've heard for years, the more people think that just playing decently for 80 minutes is something to be proud of the more depressing our decline becomes.

Where did I say tonight's performance was anything to be proud of? ...... I said it was an improvement over the last few weeks, ruined by a catastrophic 10 minutes, which is exactly what it was. I was at the game too mate, I was raging at full time just the same as everybody else ..... but don't you go turning my post into something its not .............. it was an observation on tonight measured against the last 10 games or so, not a message of congratulation to the team or an acceptance that chucking away a 2 goal lead the way we did was acceptable.

[kaimendhibs]

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I was working tonight so I have had to make do with the highlights. My faith in Stubbs is wearing thin to the point of breaking but IMO he isn't at fault tonight.
Firstly the ref. How we didn't get 3 pens is beyond me! 1st when Cummings goes through and goes past Rogers and it's given offside. From the replay he looks at least 2 yards ON. Second when Cummings is in the box and the defender just bundles him over and the ref gives a goal kick! If it's a goal kick then the defender didn't touch the ball and took out the man how is that not a pen?
Then there is the defending for both Falkirk goals. Both goals there is a player wide open to get a head on the ball. Horrendous marking from so called defenders on both occasions.

Said at the game it was Never offside

[GreenLake]

A,lot of words describing the obvious but missing the reality.

I think we beat them in the play offs but Stubbs lacks something crucial.

He contributed in our recovery but we need more than this.