joe harper & stokes . . parallels

**Shanksaidno** · 03-04-2016 01:04 PM

I remember when Harper signed . . Everyone was excited. What happened .. . We letjimmy o' rourke go (malonga gone) . . Results plummeted, dressing room spirit went down, couldn't score goals etc etc. Scary!!

**Ozyhibby** · 03-04-2016 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Shanksaidno

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I remember when Harper signed . . Everyone was excited. What happened .. . We letjimmy o' rourke go (malonga gone) . . Results plummeted, dressing room spirit went down, couldn't score goals etc etc. Scary!!

Nope, don't think it's anything to do with Stokes.
We weren't scoring enough goals before he got here either. It's just that now we are shipping goals as well.

***CentreLine*** · 03-04-2016 01:16 PM

Malonga was popular but not prolific. Whereas in 1973/4 we had the best strikeforce in Europe at the time with both JO' and AG in with a shout for the golden boot award. I can't remember many being excited at the prospect of Harper signing but certainly Stokes looked like a good bet from our starting position. And talking of starting positions, when JH signed we were riding high and could only fall. Sadly no similarity at all really to our current position.
I do wish so very much that we were discussing a threat to a free flowing diamond side with genuine stars and goal threats all over the pitch. I'd even take Joe Harper right now. He might have replaced my hero but at least he delivered goals, popular or not.
Stokes rhymes with Jokes for a reason I'm thinking

***.Sean.*** · 03-04-2016 01:17 PM

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but that is a very interesting way of looking at it.

I for one would've loved to have kept Malonga, not signed Stokes and kept the squad as it was and I said as much at the time. Wonder how we'd have currently been faring had we not signed Stokes? Let's not forget although this board was in pretty much unanimous agreement that on paper he was a good signing plenty folk had reservations with his past misdemeanours and the baggage that follows him about. Where they right? Who knows but something's clearly rotten as we've nosedived in 'spectacular' fashion since the turn of the year. As I said though, all very good in hindsight.

**~~Deansy~~** · 03-04-2016 01:35 PM

Harper - imho, THE cause of the end of 'Turnbulls Tornadoes' !. Why Eddie Turnbull bought him is still beyond me when we had Alan Gordon and Jimmy O'Rourke ??

**Onceinawhile** · 03-04-2016 01:38 PM

I wasn't around in the Joe Harper days, but I don't think it's the fault of stokes that we've decided to give up on defending.

**MickeyEdwards** · 03-04-2016 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Deansy

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Harper - imho, THE cause of the end of 'Turnbulls Tornadoes' !. Why Eddie Turnbull bought him is still beyond me when we had Alan Gordon and Jimmy O'Rourke ??

Harper wasn't liked by the other players and even Pat Stanton "had words" with him from time to time, one particular exchange requiring Shades to separate the two of them!

Never liked the guy one bit!

**ihibs7** · 03-04-2016 02:06 PM

Liked or not - Harper scored 50 goals for Hibs in 99 games.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Lago** · 03-04-2016 02:10 PM

Whether you liked him or not Harper scored goals at level we are not likely to ever see at ER again. His goal and the move leading up to it, Arthur Duncan's perfect cross, against Liverpool will always be remember by me as one of the best scored at ER.
Stokes is doing the job he was brought to do, others around him are not.

**hibby6270** · 03-04-2016 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Deansy

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Harper - imho, THE cause of the end of 'Turnbulls Tornadoes' !. Why Eddie Turnbull bought him is still beyond me when we had Alan Gordon and Jimmy O'Rourke ??

Turnbull bought him because he rated him. He had managed him at Aberdeen before he became our manager and was 'doing a job' for the Dons before we signed him.

You're right though. He never really fitted in.

That said 2 highlights still stick in my mind of JH.
1) His goal against Liverpool in that 1-0 win at Easter Road. Ah European football. Them were the days.
2) His hat trick in League Cup Final in the 6-3 defeat against Celtic. Only player ever to score a hat trick in a final and be on losing side. Damn you Dixie Deans that day.

Harper wasn't a bad player. Just a player who maybe didn't fit in to the team philosophy at the time. And that is maybe where the Stokes comparison is true.

***Hermit Crab*** · 03-04-2016 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Lago

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Whether you liked him or not Harper scored goals at level we are not likely to ever see at ER again. His goal and the move leading up to it, Arthur Duncan's perfect cross, against Liverpool will always be remember by me as one of the best scored at ER.
Stokes is doing the job he was brought to do, others around him are not.

He most certainly is not. He shat it from every 50/50 yesterday, his first touch was terrible and passing was awful, his only saving grace was that he set up the equaliser for Farid.

**Lago** · 03-04-2016 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hermit Crab

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He most certainly is not. He shat it from every 50/50 yesterday, his first touch was terrible and passing was awful, his only saving grace was that he set up the equaliser for Farid.

Ok if you say so, assume you were there, maybe not looking to get injured before the Eruos.

***Hermit Crab*** · 03-04-2016 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Lago

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Ok if you say so, assume you were there, maybe not looking to get injured before the Eruos.

Yes I was at the game. The crowd were howling for him to be subbed after 60 minutes as he'd done nothing at all. He's a Hibs player, **** the euros, if every player had that attitude Leicester would no be winning that league as Vardy wouldn't want to get injured for the Euros.

**Tom Hart RIP** · 03-04-2016 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by hibby6270

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Turnbull bought him because he rated him. He had managed him at Aberdeen before he became our manager and was 'doing a job' for the Dons before we signed him.

You're right though. He never really fitted in.

That said 2 highlights still stick in my mind of JH.
1) His goal against Liverpool in that 1-0 win at Easter Road. Ah European football. Them were the days.
2) His hat trick in League Cup Final in the 6-3 defeat against Celtic. Only player ever to score a hat trick in a final and be on losing side. Damn you Dixie Deans that day.

Harper wasn't a bad player. Just a player who maybe didn't fit in to the team philosophy at the time. And that is maybe where the Stokes comparison is true.

Agreed. Didn't he also score a 30 yarder against Hearts. In hindsight tho a poor signing as the last thing we needed was a goal scorer. For half the cost we could have brought Roughie and didn't Gordon McQueen go to Leeds around that time for 15k??

**Lago** · 03-04-2016 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hermit Crab

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Yes I was at the game. The crowd were howling for him to be subbed after 60 minutes as he'd done nothing at all. He's a Hibs player, **** the euros, if every player had that attitude Leicester would no be winning that league as Vardy wouldn't want to get injured for the Euros.

Just as well he didn't get subbed then as we would have probably been looking at 5 defeats on the bounce, I suppose thats the difference between being the Manager and in the crowd.

***Hermit Crab*** · 03-04-2016 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lago

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Just as well he didn't get subbed then as we would have probably been looking at 5 defeats on the bounce, I suppose thats the difference between being the Manager and in the crowd.

No, Cummings missed yet another one on one with the goalie at 2-1, long be for we equalised.

**Lago** · 03-04-2016 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Hermit Crab

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No, Cummings missed yet another one on one with the goalie at 2-1, long be for we equalised.

And were the crowd howling for his substitution ?

***Hermit Crab*** · 03-04-2016 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Lago

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And were the crowd howling for his substitution ?

Yes there were shouts of get him off, were you at the game?

**Lago** · 03-04-2016 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Hermit Crab

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Yes there were shouts of get him off, were you at the game?

No I wasn't at the game, I watched my son in laws team, Lochgelly Albert, against Kirkcaldy YM, local derby and good value for money, I am afraid my days of travelling to away games are long past, unfortunately.

***Alfred E Newman*** · 03-04-2016 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by hibby6270

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Turnbull bought him because he rated him. He had managed him at Aberdeen before he became our manager and was 'doing a job' for the Dons before we signed him.

You're right though. He never really fitted in.

That said 2 highlights still stick in my mind of JH.
1) His goal against Liverpool in that 1-0 win at Easter Road. Ah European football. Them were the days.
2) His hat trick in League Cup Final in the 6-3 defeat against Celtic. Only player ever to score a hat trick in a final and be on losing side. Damn you Dixie Deans that day.

Harper wasn't a bad player. Just a player who maybe didn't fit in to the team philosophy at the time. And that is maybe where the Stokes comparison is true.

For what it's worth I liked Harper as a player. It wasn't his fault Turnbull decided to break up the tornadoes after the Hadjuk Split defeat.

**Lago** · 03-04-2016 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by malcolm-bogie

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For what it's worth I liked Harper as a player. It wasn't his fault Turnbull decided to break up the tornadoes after the Hadjuk Split defeat.

***brog*** · 03-04-2016 06:57 PM

Just to correct some of the myths or inaccuracies re the Joe Harper signing.
1. There was huge excitement at the Harper signing, it was a Scottish record at the time. The first game at Brockville was a lock out, 12,500 crowd.
2. Alan Gordon was the player dropped for Joe H. He came on as sub alongside Joe H & Jim O.
3. Neither AG or Jim O were in contention for the Golden Boot in 73/74. AG certainly was in 72/73 until the last 2 months of the season. Jim O scored 34 goals in 72/73 but 50% of those were not in the league.
4. AG & Joe H are the only 2 Hibs players with a better than 50% scoring record since Joe Baker.

Having said that the OP makes an interesting point but I think the main difference is Dom wanted to go & AS acted quickly to replace him, Ned actively recruited a player he greatly admired as he thought he was the final piece in the league winning jigsaw. It didn't work but it wasn't all Harper's fault & it's hard to fault Turnbull for showing ambition.

**ehf** · 03-04-2016 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Hermit Crab

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He most certainly is not. He shat it from every 50/50 yesterday, his first touch was terrible and passing was awful, his only saving grace was that he set up the equaliser for Farid.

Rubbish.

***Alfred E Newman*** · 03-04-2016 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by brog

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Just to correct some of the myths or inaccuracies re the Joe Harper signing.
1. There was huge excitement at the Harper signing, it was a Scottish record at the time. The first game at Brockville was a lock out, 12,500 crowd.
2. Alan Gordon was the player dropped for Joe H. He came on as sub alongside Joe H & Jim O.
3. Neither AG or Jim O were in contention for the Golden Boot in 73/74. AG certainly was in 72/73 until the last 2 months of the season. Jim O scored 34 goals in 72/73 but 50% of those were not in the league.
4. AG & Joe H are the only 2 Hibs players with a better than 50% scoring record since Joe Baker.

Having said that the OP makes an interesting point but I think the main difference is Dom wanted to go & AS acted quickly to replace him, Ned actively recruited a player he greatly admired as he thought he was the final piece in the league winning jigsaw. It didn't work but it wasn't all Harper's fault & it's hard to fault Turnbull for showing ambition.

Very good summary.
There was no doubt who was the "big" club in those days and though it didn't work out, Hibs showed great ambition in bringing Harper to the club. For the benefit of the younger members £120000 then would be equivalent to Hibs paying 5 or 6 million now.

**hibsboy69** · 03-04-2016 08:34 PM

When I watched the highlights from yesterday it struck me that Stokes isn't in the best of shape, he still looks a tad heavy to me.

So in that respect I can see similarities to Joe Harper !

**~~Edson Arantes~~** · 03-04-2016 09:07 PM

[QUOTE=Shanksaidno;4635770]I remember when Harper signed . . Everyone was excited. What happened .. . We letjimmy o' rourke go (malonga gone) . . Results plummeted, dressing room spirit went down, couldn't score goals etc etc. Scary!![/QUOTE

Just out of interest here..

how did you choose your username?

Just wondering like.

***Hermit Crab*** · 03-04-2016 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by ehf

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Rubbish.

Thats your opinion.

**cmcd** · 03-04-2016 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by brog

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Just to correct some of the myths or inaccuracies re the Joe Harper signing.
1. There was huge excitement at the Harper signing, it was a Scottish record at the time. The first game at Brockville was a lock out, 12,500 crowd.
2. Alan Gordon was the player dropped for Joe H. He came on as sub alongside Joe H & Jim O.
3. Neither AG or Jim O were in contention for the Golden Boot in 73/74. AG certainly was in 72/73 until the last 2 months of the season. Jim O scored 34 goals in 72/73 but 50% of those were not in the league.
4. AG & Joe H are the only 2 Hibs players with a better than 50% scoring record since Joe Baker.

Having said that the OP makes an interesting point but I think the main difference is Dom wanted to go & AS acted quickly to replace him, Ned actively recruited a player he greatly admired as he thought he was the final piece in the league winning jigsaw. It didn't work but it wasn't all Harper's fault & it's hard to fault Turnbull for showing ambition.

Good post but I would argue that Neil Martin's goals to games ratio was as good if not better

**Pretty Boy** · 03-04-2016 09:19 PM

I remember reading an interview with Harper, who certainly doesn't seem short of self confidence shall we say, in which he stated he was as frustrated as anyone with his time at Hibs. He said that he signed to play with the tornadoes not to be the catalyst for them being split up. He said he was frustrated when he saw good players he wanted to play with being moved on and replaced with inferior quality.