Hibs' overall record in cup finals

[G B Young]

Had a look at wikipedia this morning as I mused on just how often Hibs seem to fall at the final hurdle. If the stats are correct, our record in cup finals is as follows:

Major cup finals:
Scottish Cup: 13 finals, two wins.
League Cup: Ten finals, three wins.

Minor cup finals:
Summer Cup: Four finals, two wins
Drybrough Cup: Two finals, two wins

I'm not old enough to remember the summer cup, but I do remember the Drybrough Cup being quite a big deal at the time, and both our final wins came against Celtic at Hampden in front of 50,000 crowds. However, our record in major cup finals is shockingly poor. Five wins in 23 attempts! Obviously the team line-up changes for every final, but does that statistic indicate some deep-rooted mental issue within the club throughout its history when it comes to the big occasion? Or is it simply that the teams which lost the 18 cup finals simply haven't been good enough on the day? The minor cup finals may not be of such consequence but it's interesting that we have a good record in them, perhaps due to the fact there isn't so much pressure to deal with?

[Shore Thing]

Bring back the Dryborough Cup!

100% Win ratio

[j'adore hibs]

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Had a look at wikipedia this morning as I mused on just how often Hibs seem to fall at the final hurdle. If the stats are correct, our record in cup finals is as follows:

Major cup finals:
Scottish Cup: 13 finals, two wins.
League Cup: Ten finals, three wins.

Minor cup finals:
Summer Cup: Four finals, two wins
Drybrough Cup: Two finals, two wins

I'm not old enough to remember the summer cup, but I do remember the Drybrough Cup being quite a big deal at the time, and both our final wins came against Celtic at Hampden in front of 50,000 crowds. However, our record in major cup finals is shockingly poor. Five wins in 23 attempts! Obviously the team line-up changes for every final, but does that statistic indicate some deep-rooted mental issue within the club throughout its history when it comes to the big occasion? Or is it simply that the teams which lost the 18 cup finals simply haven't been good enough on the day? The minor cup finals may not be of such consequence but it's interesting that we have a good record in them, perhaps due to the fact there isn't so much pressure to deal with?

club with record losses in all cup finals is celtic. i wouldnt say they have a deep rooted issue, were just beaten on the day predominately by rangers as we have been by others

im 9 finals and 2 wins, my lad is 3 finals 3 losses, feel sorry for him

season tickets bought today though

[rcarter1]

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Had a look at wikipedia this morning as I mused on just how often Hibs seem to fall at the final hurdle. If the stats are correct, our record in cup finals is as follows:

Major cup finals:
Scottish Cup: 13 finals, two wins.
League Cup: Ten finals, three wins.

Minor cup finals:
Summer Cup: Four finals, two wins
Drybrough Cup: Two finals, two wins

I'm not old enough to remember the summer cup, but I do remember the Drybrough Cup being quite a big deal at the time, and both our final wins came against Celtic at Hampden in front of 50,000 crowds. However, our record in major cup finals is shockingly poor. Five wins in 23 attempts! Obviously the team line-up changes for every final, but does that statistic indicate some deep-rooted mental issue within the club throughout its history when it comes to the big occasion? Or is it simply that the teams which lost the 18 cup finals simply haven't been good enough on the day? The minor cup finals may not be of such consequence but it's interesting that we have a good record in them, perhaps due to the fact there isn't so much pressure to deal with?

Cup Finals aren't easy to win, usually because the opposition are pretty decent. Including the 1979 Final and up to yesterday we have lost once to a team finishing lower than us in the league (Livi 2004, we finished 1 point ahead in the league). We have won once against a team finishing higher than us (Killie 2007, we finished 6 points behind). In all other finals we were beaten by 'Favourites' who finished well above us in the league, and of course we beat a Dunfermline side that got relegated. Yesterday is a bit different, but Ross County are fourth in the premiership and were by no means considered underdogs.

Our record (1979 onwards) seems pretty much as expected based on league placements.

[G B Young]

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Cup Finals aren't easy to win, usually because the opposition are pretty decent. Including the 1979 Final and up to yesterday we have lost once to a team finishing lower than us in the league (Livi 2004, we finished 1 point ahead in the league). We have won once against a team finishing higher than us (Killie 2007, we finished 6 points behind). In all other finals we were beaten by 'Favourites' who finished well above us in the league, and of course we beat a Dunfermline side that got relegated. Yesterday is a bit different, but Ross County are fourth in the premiership and were by no means considered underdogs.

Our record (1979 onwards) seems pretty much as expected based on league placements.

When we beat Celtic in the 72 League Cup final they finished above us. Think we were second that season though so I guess we wouldn't have been major underdogs.

[GreenArmyyy!]

Christ that is grim

[Hi Heid Yin]

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Had a look at wikipedia this morning as I mused on just how often Hibs seem to fall at the final hurdle. If the stats are correct, our record in cup finals is as follows:

Major cup finals:
Scottish Cup: 13 finals, two wins.
League Cup: Ten finals, three wins.

Minor cup finals:
Summer Cup: Four finals, two wins
Drybrough Cup: Two finals, two wins

I'm not old enough to remember the summer cup, but I do remember the Drybrough Cup being quite a big deal at the time, and both our final wins came against Celtic at Hampden in front of 50,000 crowds. However, our record in major cup finals is shockingly poor. Five wins in 23 attempts! Obviously the team line-up changes for every final, but does that statistic indicate some deep-rooted mental issue within the club throughout its history when it comes to the big occasion? Or is it simply that the teams which lost the 18 cup finals simply haven't been good enough on the day? The minor cup finals may not be of such consequence but it's interesting that we have a good record in them, perhaps due to the fact there isn't so much pressure to deal with?

That is truly sobering reading. This said, I'd like to know how many finals were against the old firm, who are invariably always favourites and above us in the league.
How many times did Hearts actually beat the old firm in cup finals? Statistics are always open to interpretation and debate.

[G B Young]

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That is truly sobering reading. This said, I'd like to know how many finals were against the old firm, who are invariably always favourites and above us in the league.
How many times did Hearts actually beat the old firm in cup finals? Statistics are always open to interpretation and debate.

Off the top of my head we've lost twice to Rangers in cup finals and perhaps five or six times to Celtic. We've also beaten Celtic twice in cup finals. Of the other teams we've lost to we've had two Scottish Cup final defeats to Hearts, plus assorted cup final losses to a host of others including Aberdeen, Airdrie, Motherwell, Clyde, Livingston and now Ross County.

Not sure about Hearts, they've definitely beaten both Rangers and Celtic in the cup finals, but whether more than once I'd have to check.

[cabbageandribs1875]

at least we will still get a mention in the history books with yesterdays result, in years to come anyone looking up the history books to see when Ross co won their first cup they will see the benevolent team was indeed hibs, HFC being benevolent since the year dot :(

[cozy sausage]

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Had a look at wikipedia this morning as I mused on just how often Hibs seem to fall at the final hurdle. If the stats are correct, our record in cup finals is as follows:

Major cup finals:
Scottish Cup: 13 finals, two wins.
League Cup: Ten finals, three wins.

Minor cup finals:
Summer Cup: Four finals, two wins
Drybrough Cup: Two finals, two wins

I'm not old enough to remember the summer cup, but I do remember the Drybrough Cup being quite a big deal at the time, and both our final wins came against Celtic at Hampden in front of 50,000 crowds. However, our record in major cup finals is shockingly poor. Five wins in 23 attempts! Obviously the team line-up changes for every final, but does that statistic indicate some deep-rooted mental issue within the club throughout its history when it comes to the big occasion? Or is it simply that the teams which lost the 18 cup finals simply haven't been good enough on the day? The minor cup finals may not be of such consequence but it's interesting that we have a good record in them, perhaps due to the fact there isn't so much pressure to deal with?

My “Hibs life” started in September 1979. Since then there have been 73 cup finals (Scottish Cup and League Cup).
For final appearances we are 5th (even ahead of “The Shameless”)
For cup wins we are 6th.
Our “win percentage” however at 22% (2 out of 9) has been hard to take, and I’ve taken them all, although arguably supporting Dundee Utd or Dunfermline through this time would have been even worse.

A Scottish Cup win would heal the hurt.

team		apps	W	L	win %
rangers		36	27	9	75%
celtic		29	18	11	62%
aberdeen		17	9	8	53%
dundee u		16	4	12	25%
hibs		9	2	7	22%
Hearts		7	3	4	43%
kilmarnock		4	2	2	50%
dunfermline		4	0	4	0%
dundee		3	0	3	0%
motherwell		3	1	2	33%
falkirk		3	0	3	0%
ICT		2	1	1	50%
ross county		2	1	1	50%
st johnstone		2	1	1	50%
st mirren		2	2	0	100%
airdrie		2	0	2	0%
ayr united		1	0	1	0%
livingston		1	1	0	100%
raith		1	1	0	100%
gretna		1	0	1	0%
QOtS		1	0	1	0%
total		146	73	73

[emerald green]

Hibs record in major cup finals - League Cup and Scottish Cup is terrible. There is no other way to describe it.

Typically, Hibs beat every top division side they've played in this years League Cup competition, then wait until the final to chuck it away against probably the worst team they've played (Ross County IMO are not much better than Dundee United).

Even going back in history, Hibs lost their very first League Cup Final to Motherwell by 3-0, having gone into the match as red hot favourites and fielding seven full internationals in their team, Famous Five included. Hibs went on the win the title that same year by 10 clear points (only 2 points for a win in those days). Go figure.

[KWJ]

I'd imagine that if you did a points league for cup games since, say, 2000 that we'd be clear 3rd place behind the Rantic and maybe even closing in on Rangers.

We just struggle so badly at that final hurdle.

Liam McLeod mentioned during the game that we have generally been very good in the cup competitions.

Hampden just not a fun place to go. Ayr Utd, Livingston, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen, Cheats and Celtic have made it tough going. Don't think Rangers have beaten us there since 93/94 though, shame they're deid.

[emerald green]

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I'd imagine that if you did a points league for cup games since, say, 2000 that we'd be clear 3rd place behind the Rantic and maybe even closing in on Rangers.

We just struggle so badly at that final hurdle.

Liam McLeod mentioned during the game that we have generally been very good in the cup competitions.

Hampden just not a fun place to go. Ayr Utd, Livingston, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen, Cheats and Celtic have made it tough going. Don't think Rangers have beaten us there since 93/94 though, shame they're deid.

The bit in bold is correct, but only until Hibs reach the finals unfortunately.

[rcarter1]

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My “Hibs life” started in September 1979. Since then there have been 73 cup finals (Scottish Cup and League Cup).
For final appearances we are 5th (even ahead of “The Shameless”)
For cup wins we are 6th.
Our “win percentage” however at 22% (2 out of 9) has been hard to take, and I’ve taken them all, although arguably supporting Dundee Utd or Dunfermline through this time would have been even worse.

A Scottish Cup win would heal the hurt.

team		apps	W	L	win %
rangers		36	27	9	75%
celtic		29	18	11	62%
aberdeen		17	9	8	53%
dundee u		16	4	12	25%
hibs		9	2	7	22%
Hearts		7	3	4	43%
kilmarnock		4	2	2	50%
dunfermline		4	0	4	0%
dundee		3	0	3	0%
motherwell		3	1	2	33%
falkirk		3	0	3	0%
ICT		2	1	1	50%
ross county		2	1	1	50%
st johnstone		2	1	1	50%
st mirren		2	2	0	100%
airdrie		2	0	2	0%
ayr united		1	0	1	0%
livingston		1	1	0	100%
raith		1	1	0	100%
gretna		1	0	1	0%
QOtS		1	0	1	0%
total		146	73	73

These stats are combined Cup Finals from 1979. How have Dundee United won 4 trophies in that time?

[DaveF]

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These stats are combined Cup Finals from 1979. How have Dundee United won 4 trophies in that time?

They won the LC in 1980 and 1981 and then the SC twice later on.

[Jumbo]

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These stats are combined Cup Finals from 1979. How have Dundee United won 4 trophies in that time?

They've won 2 of each since then !

[rcarter1]

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They won the LC in 1980 and 1981 and then the SC twice later on.

Wow, forgot they had that great early 80s side. They have racked up tons of Finals as well.

[emerald green]

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These stats are combined Cup Finals from 1979. How have Dundee United won 4 trophies in that time?

DU have lost so many finals it's almost as bad as Hibs. They lost 10 cup finals between 1974 and 1991.

They beat Aberdeen in the 1979/80 League Cup final after a replay, and retained it the following season against Dundee.

They beat Rangers in 1993/4 Scottish Cup Final (their first win) and won it again in 2010 when they beat, guess who? Ross County...

[Pete]

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My “Hibs life” started in September 1979. Since then there have been 73 cup finals (Scottish Cup and League Cup).
For final appearances we are 5th (even ahead of “The Shameless”)
For cup wins we are 6th.
Our “win percentage” however at 22% (2 out of 9) has been hard to take, and I’ve taken them all, although arguably supporting Dundee Utd or Dunfermline through this time would have been even worse.

A Scottish Cup win would heal the hurt.

team		apps	W	L	win %
rangers		36	27	9	75%
celtic		29	18	11	62%
aberdeen		17	9	8	53%
dundee u		16	4	12	25%
hibs		9	2	7	22%
Hearts		7	3	4	43%
kilmarnock		4	2	2	50%
dunfermline		4	0	4	0%
dundee		3	0	3	0%
motherwell		3	1	2	33%
falkirk		3	0	3	0%
ICT		2	1	1	50%
ross county		2	1	1	50%
st johnstone		2	1	1	50%
st mirren		2	2	0	100%
airdrie		2	0	2	0%
ayr united		1	0	1	0%
livingston		1	1	0	100%
raith		1	1	0	100%
gretna		1	0	1	0%
QOtS		1	0	1	0%
total		146	73	73

Have St Mirren not been in 3?

[basehibby]

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Hibs record in major cup finals - League Cup and Scottish Cup is terrible. There is no other way to describe it.

Typically, Hibs beat every top division side they've played in this years League Cup competition, then wait until the final to chuck it away against probably the worst team they've played (Ross County IMO are not much better than Dundee United).

Even going back in history, Hibs lost their very first League Cup Final to Motherwell by 3-0, having gone into the match as red hot favourites and fielding seven full internationals in their team, Famous Five included. Hibs went on the win the title that same year by 10 clear points (only 2 points for a win in those days). Go figure.

The stats don't back up what you are saying. Ross County may come from a tiny wee town but they are having the most successfull season in their history in the league I think (?). They are miles ahead of Dundee Utd (over 50% more points and goals and over twice as many wins !) and demonstrably a better side so your opinion is not counting for very much really (and certainly won't save Dundee Utd from relegation). As far as the games Hibs have played, I think they looked a hell of a lot better than the hoofball merchants from Gorgie as well.

I know you're hurting as is every Hibby, but no need to paint it as some malignant mental issue that is not there - leave that to Keith Jackson and ******s of his ilk who need no encouragement.

[cozy sausage]

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Have St Mirren not been in 3?

They have 3 Scottish Cup wins in total, but only 1 in these stats (1987) plus 1 League Cup win (2013).

[cozy sausage]

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They have 3 Scottish Cup wins in total, but only 1 in these stats (1987) plus 1 League Cup win (2013).

sorry read your post wrong. My mistake. They have been in 3. Defeat to rangers in LC in 2010. must have mixed their record up with someone else in cut and paste.

[Joe Baker2]

Ouch - hard to read those stats. I think I've buried some of those score in the old subconcious.

[emerald green]

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The stats don't back up what you are saying. Ross County may come from a tiny wee town but they are having the most successfull season in their history in the league I think (?). They are miles ahead of Dundee Utd (over 50% more points and goals and over twice as many wins !) and demonstrably a better side so your opinion is not counting for very much really (and certainly won't save Dundee Utd from relegation). As far as the games Hibs have played, I think they looked a hell of a lot better than the hoofball merchants from Gorgie as well.

I know you're hurting as is every Hibby, but no need to paint it as some malignant mental issue that is not there - leave that to Keith Jackson and ******s of his ilk who need no encouragement.

Edit: Did DU not beat RC 2-3 recently? I might be wrong?

RC are not much better than DU, at the moment, despite their respective league positions IMHO. We'll need to agree to disagree on that I think.

I agree Hibs looked a better football team than Hearts, but Hibs didn't play Hearts in the League Cup run to the final. So I'm not sure what your point is there. My point was Hibs beat better teams than RC on the way to the LC final - Aberdeen, St Johnstone & DU (we disagree there) but lose to RC in the final.

It was not my intention to paint Hibs latest cup final defeat as some sort of "malignant mental issue". Your words, not mine. Although I note you made no comment about the point I made about Hibs inexplicable loss to Motherwell in the LC final all those years ago. A Hibs team full of internationals and the Famous Five. A team widely regarded as one of the best this country has ever seen.

[Tom Hart RIP]

Some of the best players we have ever had played in. Series of cup finals in 60/70s where we lost 6-2 6-1 and 6-3. The joke at the time was that we had played Celtic at tennis.
We also won 5-3, 2-1 and 1-0. Ok two of the wins were in the drybrough Cup but make no mistake Celtic and Stein wanted to win these games.
As for Motherwell game John Ogilvie was taken off with broken leg and I think someone else picked up an injury which explains that. No subs in those days.

[emerald green]

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Some of the best players we have ever had played in. Series of cup finals in 60/70s where we lost 6-2 6-1 and 6-3. The joke at the time was that we had played Celtic at tennis.
We also won 5-3, 2-1 and 1-0. Ok two of the wins were in the drybrough Cup but make no mistake Celtic and Stein wanted to win these games.
As for Motherwell game John Ogilvie was taken off with broken leg and I think someone else picked up an injury which explains that. No subs in those days.

I don't know at what point of that final Ogilvie was taken off with a broken leg, but according to what I've read Hibs controlled most of the match but without really threatening the Motherwell goal. Sound familiar?

I also remember my dad, who was at the match, telling me the Hibs goalkeeper Tommy Younger (Scottish internationalist) was badly at fault for at least one of the Motherwell goals and was literally in tears at the end of the game.

Hampden has seldom ever been kind to Hibs.

[judas]

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club with record losses in all cup finals is celtic. i wouldnt say they have a deep rooted issue, were just beaten on the day predominately by rangers as we have been by others

im 9 finals and 2 wins, my lad is 3 finals 3 losses, feel sorry for him

season tickets bought today though

Bang on mate. Bring on the next final.

[Bristolhibby]

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at least we will still get a mention in the history books with yesterdays result, in years to come anyone looking up the history books to see when Ross co won their first cup they will see the benevolent team was indeed hibs, HFC being benevolent since the year dot :(

And Livingston. We are such nice guys in that respect.

J

[Waxy]

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Had a look at wikipedia this morning as I mused on just how often Hibs seem to fall at the final hurdle. If the stats are correct, our record in cup finals is as follows:

Major cup finals:
Scottish Cup: 13 finals, two wins.
League Cup: Ten finals, three wins.

Minor cup finals:
Summer Cup: Four finals, two wins
Drybrough Cup: Two finals, two wins

I'm not old enough to remember the summer cup, but I do remember the Drybrough Cup being quite a big deal at the time, and both our final wins came against Celtic at Hampden in front of 50,000 crowds. However, our record in major cup finals is shockingly poor. Five wins in 23 attempts! Obviously the team line-up changes for every final, but does that statistic indicate some deep-rooted mental issue within the club throughout its history when it comes to the big occasion? Or is it simply that the teams which lost the 18 cup finals simply haven't been good enough on the day? The minor cup finals may not be of such consequence but it's interesting that we have a good record in them, perhaps due to the fact there isn't so much pressure to deal with?

We've actually been in more cup finals than shearts by one.They have 14 Scottish and 8 League cup finals.

[Speedy]

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Cup Finals aren't easy to win, usually because the opposition are pretty decent. Including the 1979 Final and up to yesterday we have lost once to a team finishing lower than us in the league (Livi 2004, we finished 1 point ahead in the league). We have won once against a team finishing higher than us (Killie 2007, we finished 6 points behind). In all other finals we were beaten by 'Favourites' who finished well above us in the league, and of course we beat a Dunfermline side that got relegated. Yesterday is a bit different, but Ross County are fourth in the premiership and were by no means considered underdogs.

Our record (1979 onwards) seems pretty much as expected based on league placements.

We were favourites with the bookies yesterday. I would've had it 50/50.