Lack of development players breaking through....

[hibee-boys]

After reading about Conor Duthies release it got me thinking about what players we've produced from our youth teams that has been able to break through into the first team squad. Granted he's perhaps a bad example since he came from Hearts however there seems to have been numerous youngsters who've impressed in the development team only then to get released. Can't think of any players within the last few years from our youth teams who has taken the step up into the first team. Was the golden generation a one off or is there a reason for this? Any current youngsters in the development squad who may make it?

[Libby Hibby]

Cummings took the step up

[hibee-boys]

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Cummings took the step up

Wasn't he signed from THEM though?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

How good would a youth team player have to be to break in to the current team and which position would you expect it to be in?

[Ozyhibby]

The lads who have came through recently looked like they were trying to just get through games and not make any mistakes. Cummings on the other hand attacks each game like he wants to win it and be the star of the show in the process. That's the difference.


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[wookie70]

It is all that is missing for the Dempster and Stubbs revolution. Everything seems to be in place so hopefully we get some kids through in the years to come. In the mean time Stubbs is filling the gaps with good young players who have a potential sell on. There's nothing like cheering on one of the youth players who has successfully stepped up, not sure Lewis or Hanlon would agree though the way some fans have treated them over the years.

[hibee-boys]

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How good would a youth team player have to be to break in to the current team and which position would you expect it to be in?

It's not so much the fact that they can't break through into this particular first team, granted Stubbs has built a hell of a squad off late, it's the fact that most seem to be released given that there is zero expectation that they'll ever make the grade. This is what is concerning.

[lucky]

This is not a time for youngsters we need promoted.

[H18 SFR]

You don't win titles with youngsters...

[hibee-boys]

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This is not a time for youngsters we need promoted.

Yeah totally agree Lucky, but my point was that it would be encouraging to see some of our development squad start to ask questions of Stubbs and challenge the more experienced players. Not knocking Stubbs or Dempster, they've transformed the club but I guess it'll take time to see what impact the change in youth/development set up has had.

[scoopyboy]

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Wasn't he signed from THEM though?

Nope, he was signed from Hutchie Vale.

[3pm]

There are a couple in the 20's just now who must have a chance.

[Smartie]

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There are a couple in the 20's just now who must have a chance.

I'd be astonished if Scott Martin didn't make it. I've been impressed with him every time I've seen him.

[GGTTH07]

Scott Martin looks a good player

[Michael]

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This is not a time for youngsters we need promoted.

I'd take a young Riordan or Scott Brown...

[Unseen work]

I know what your saying but currently the amount of players we have produced in the squad is frightening:
paul hanlon
lewis Stevenson
jordan forster
sam stanton
kevin Thomson
alex harris
danny handling
jason Cummings

the he next couple of players to come through/already started to come through imo will be:
scott martin
callum crane
dunsmore
lewis allan

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'll also add that its not a thread that's needed two days before a major semi final, why not stick to being positive instead? There's lots to be positive about.

[Speedy]

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I know what your saying but currently the amount of players we have produced in the squad is frightening:
paul hanlon
lewis Stevenson
jordan forster
sam stanton
kevin Thomson
alex harris
danny handling
jason Cummings

the he next couple of players to come through/already started to come through imo will be:
scott martin
callum crane
dunsmore
lewis allan

Only 3 of them get a game, one of them wasn't produced by us.

[Unseen work]

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Only 3 of them get a game, one of them wasn't produced by us.

What a negative post. I think it's fair to say all the players on that list have been good squad players at least and if fit have at least been on the bench since they made there break through.

Who are are you referring to that we didn't produce?

If it is Thomson, Forster.or jc we still signed them young and developed them in our younger sides then promoted them into the first team and gave them the platform to play.

[E10 Rifle]

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I'll also add that its not a thread that's needed two days before a major semi final, why not stick to being positive instead? There's lots to be positive about.

Agree, this thread could make all the difference on Saturday

[BSEJVT]

I think the golden generation raised expectations regarding the number of players we could expect to break through to unrealistic levels.

I am sure I read before Alex Miller saying that bringing 1 or 2 through from an age group was as good as you could expect.

I also think that post Donald & John Park our youth set up was severely lacking, from recruitment to development.

It will take years for the new regime to put that right as unfortunately a lot of players within the system aren't the right ones.

I think you can see that from the numbers released over most of the age groups.

Finally and I have commented on this before, certain sections of our support take great delight in criticizing our home grown players, whom they seem to judge far more harshly than those brought in and wont give them any time to find their feet in the first team.

As has been proven by Hanlon & Stevenson, once a view is developed and promoted by these people it is far harder for the players involved to sustain their breakthrough as the negativity they get must dent their confidence.

It takes years for them to change perceptions and unfortunately some of them aren't strong enough to do so.

By all means come on here and criticize them ( and other players if you must) but we would do an awful lot better if we supported players through the games rather than berating some of them at the first missed tackle or touch,

[Zazu62]

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I know what your saying but currently the amount of players we have produced in the squad is frightening:
paul hanlon
lewis Stevenson
jordan forster
sam stanton
kevin Thomson
alex harris
danny handling
jason Cummings

the he next couple of players to come through/already started to come through imo will be:
scott martin
callum crane
dunsmore
lewis allan

What game was it that gray came off and mcgeouch replaced him at RB when we had dunsmore on the bench.. What's the point if we aren't gonna use the youngsters?

[Thecat23]

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I know what your saying but currently the amount of players we have produced in the squad is frightening:
paul hanlon
lewis Stevenson
jordan forster
sam stanton
kevin Thomson
alex harris
danny handling
jason Cummings

the he next couple of players to come through/already started to come through imo will be:
scott martin
callum crane
dunsmore
lewis allan

Hanlon, Thomson, and Lewis broke through years ago, I think he's meaning lately! Guys like Harris, Handing, Stanton who were all told they could find another club aren't good enough to help us win promotion.

I'm very disappointed in the players coming through and making the step up in recent years. I agree with the list of up and coming guys though. Hopefully a couple make it to the first team.

[Thecat23]

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I think the golden generation raised expectations regarding the number of players we could expect to break through to unrealistic levels.

I am sure I read before Alex Miller saying that bringing 1 or 2 through from an age group was as good as you could expect.

I also think that post Donald & John Park our youth set up was severely lacking, from recruitment to development.

It will take years for the new regime to put that right as unfortunately a lot of players within the system aren't the right ones.

I think you can see that from the numbers released over most of the age groups.

Finally and I have commented on this before, certain sections of our support take great delight in criticizing our home grown players, whom they seem to judge far more harshly than those brought in and wont give them any time to find their feet in the first team.

As has been proven by Hanlon & Stevenson, once a view is developed and promoted by these people it is far harder for the players involved to sustain their breakthrough as the negativity they get must dent their confidence.

It takes years for them to change perceptions and unfortunately some of them aren't strong enough to do so.

By all means come on here and criticize them ( and other players if you must) but we would do an awful lot better if we supported players through the games rather than berating some of them at the first missed tackle or touch,

Very good post, the stick wee Lewis gets from some is baffling. His first touch is one of the best I've seen since Murphy. Good passer of the ball and the boy can defend!

Miller was right as well, only a couple would actually make the grade and we got very lucky with the likes of Brown, Thomsom, Whitty, O'Connor and Riordan.

[Scorrie]

If the division had more teams in it i.e. 16 or 18, then perhaps more youngsters would break through as there would be less fear of relegation and so more time to give young players a chance

[superfurryhibby]

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I think the golden generation raised expectations regarding the number of players we could expect to break through to unrealistic levels.

I am sure I read before Alex Miller saying that bringing 1 or 2 through from an age group was as good as you could expect.

I also think that post Donald & John Park our youth set up was severely lacking, from recruitment to development.

It will take years for the new regime to put that right as unfortunately a lot of players within the system aren't the right ones.

I think you can see that from the numbers released over most of the age groups.

Finally and I have commented on this before, certain sections of our support take great delight in criticizing our home grown players, whom they seem to judge far more harshly than those brought in and wont give them any time to find their feet in the first team.

As has been proven by Hanlon & Stevenson, once a view is developed and promoted by these people it is far harder for the players involved to sustain their breakthrough as the negativity they get must dent their confidence.

It takes years for them to change perceptions and unfortunately some of them aren't strong enough to do so.

By all means come on here and criticize them ( and other players if you must) but we would do an awful lot better if we supported players through the games rather than berating some of them at the first missed tackle or touch,

If anyone doubts this is a factor check out some of the "supportive" comments on the Handling thread. Full of unnecessary crap about he's not good enough, who gave him a four year contract..blah, blah. People need to grasp that self important prophesising isn't always required. Fair enough in some cases, it is OK to debate the merits of a player. Just not on a bit of news telling us that the guy is approaching the business end of rehabilitation after serious injury. Ask yourself what you would be thinking if you were in DH's shoes and reading the thread. Encouraged?

[Brightside]

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I know what your saying but currently the amount of players we have produced in the squad is frightening:
paul hanlon
lewis Stevenson
jordan forster
sam stanton
kevin Thomson
alex harris
danny handling
jason Cummings

the he next couple of players to come through/already started to come through imo will be:
scott martin
callum crane
dunsmore
lewis allan

Correct - we are doing ok. And lets be happy we are able to bring in better players at the moment.

[Brightside]

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If anyone doubts this is a factor check out some of the "supportive" comments on the Handling thread. Full of unnecessary crap about he's not good enough, who gave him a four year contract..blah, blah. People need to grasp that self important prophesising isn't always required. Fair enough in some cases, it is OK to debate the merits of a player. Just not on a bit of news telling us that the guy is approaching the business end of rehabilitation after serious injury. Ask yourself what you would be thinking if you were in DH's shoes and reading the thread. Encouraged?

Spot on. Our fans don't exactly do a good job of encouraging young players. One mistake and they are slated on forums and from the stand.

[easty]

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If anyone doubts this is a factor check out some of the "supportive" comments on the Handling thread. Full of unnecessary crap about he's not good enough, who gave him a four year contract..blah, blah. People need to grasp that self important prophesising isn't always required. Fair enough in some cases, it is OK to debate the merits of a player. Just not on a bit of news telling us that the guy is approaching the business end of rehabilitation after serious injury. Ask yourself what you would be thinking if you were in DH's shoes and reading the thread. Encouraged?

If a player is that mentally weak, that threads like the Handling one on a fans messageboard are going to affect thier game, then it really doesn't matter what's written, cos with that lack of confidence or a winning mentality they're never going to make it anyway.

I actually think Hibs fans, generally, are more likely to give young players coming through too much credit, too soon, when they break into the team. Look at Harris, Forster and Stanton. We were bigging them up as potential greats after just a few games. The negative comments came after a period where it became obvious they weren't going to be as great as thier first couple of games suggested.

[Brooster]

Hibs will not develop any player of note as long as the current heads of development/academy are in place. Im convinced of that.