Ground Grading

[Sergey]

Excuse my ignorance but I can't find anything on the SFA site, but are there stipulations for stadium requirements in the Scottish leagues?

The reason I ask is I've just watched the goals from yesterday's Sevco match at Dumbarton, and until a moment ago, I hadn't seen their new 'stadium' (I do recall Boghead from bygone years). I am amazed that a team playing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football can be allowed a stadium with only one side open to the public.

I seem to recall Falkirk being denied promotion a few years ago because Brockville (probably correctly) didn't meet the requirements - but what are the requirements and does anything go in the lower leagues?

[Sir David Gray]

http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__ther...1375800603.pdf

Don't believe there's any rules in place regarding a minimum number of stands etc.

[Ronniekirk]

There was something way back about needing a 10 thousand I think ,all seated stadium but that was to get promotion to the top flight ,but they had to scrap that as smaller teams clearly couldn't afford it

[greenlex]

I think it just needs to be all seated for the top flight with no capacity stipulations now.

[Ronniekirk]

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I think it just needs to be all seated for the top flight with no capacity stipulations now.

Was there not something about 6 ,000 capacity I vaguely seem to recall that being muted but maybe it didn't come into effect ?

[greenlex]

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Was there not something about 6 ,000 capacity I vaguely seem to recall that being muted but maybe it didn't come into effect ?

Not sure Ronnie. Defo no standing tho. Inverness and Ross county both had to put in temporary seated stands (they are still there)when promoted. Having said that that might also take the capacity to 6k or above.

[Sergey]

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Was there not something about 6 ,000 capacity I vaguely seem to recall that being muted but maybe it didn't come into effect ?

Here's a link to the ground requirements for Non League in England.

http://thepyramid.info/misc/ground.htm

The Dumbarton ground currently ticks the Ryman League requirements (minimum requirement of 1950 spectators) but the ground wouldn't pass for Conference North/South.

Edit: It doesn't meet RPL standards because:

Development, in addition to hard standing, must be on more than one side of the ground.

I think that 6k is the minimum requirement to play in the Football League in England (Barnet had to move from Underhill as they didn't meet the criteria) but that also incorporates standing areas.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Here's a link to the ground requirements for Non League in England.

http://thepyramid.info/misc/ground.htm

The Dumbarton ground currently ticks the Ryman League requirements (minimum requirement of 1950 spectators) but the ground wouldn't pass for Conference North/South.

Edit: It doesn't meet RPL standards because:

Development, in addition to hard standing, must be on more than one side of the ground.

I think that 6k is the minimum requirement to play in the Football League in England (Barnet had to move from Underhill as they didn't meet the criteria) but that also incorporates standing areas.

6k alluded to here for a stadium "fit for the premier league" but doesn't say to meet requirements.
http://www.ross-shirejournal.co.uk/News/Stadium-upgrade-kicks-in-at-Ross-County-16052012.htm

[Lucius Apuleius]

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I think it just needs to be all seated for the top flight with no capacity stipulations now.

I thought celtc were having a standing section next season?

[greenlex]

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I thought celtc were having a standing section next season?

I think thay are the only ones to actually apply to have this but no idea if its been granted. I think certainly in England and Wales their top two divisions need to be all seater legally and requires a chamge in the law.. Im not even sure its a legal requirement up here but an SFA/SPL thing.

[Sergey]

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I think thay are the only ones to actually apply to have this but no idea if its been granted. I think certainly in England and Wales their top two divisions need to be all seater. Im not even sure its a legal requirement up here but an SFA/SPL thing.

I find it utterly bizarre that the Scottish authorities deem that Dumbarton's ground is suitable to host a match against Rangers, while their ground wouldn't be allowed to host Leiston vs Grays Athletic.

You would have thought that there would be some ground stipulations in the Scottish league structure (but the fact that there doesn't seem to be any comes as no surprise).

[greenlex]

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I find it utterly bizarre that the Scottish authorities deem that Dumbarton's ground is suitable to host a match against Rangers, while their ground wouldn't be allowed to host Leiston vs Grays Athletic.

You would have thought that there would be some ground stipulations in the Scottish league structure (but the fact that there doesn't seem to be any comes as no surprise).

You have to remember the rangers are in the second tier. Ive no idea what Dumbartons home crows is but it will not be more than their capacity. It would be more bizarre to force them to up that because Rangers are playing them regularly in the league for a couple of seasons or more. Maybe the English game has it wrong?

[Ronniekirk]

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Here's a link to the ground requirements for Non League in England.

http://thepyramid.info/misc/ground.htm

The Dumbarton ground currently ticks the Ryman League requirements (minimum requirement of 1950 spectators) but the ground wouldn't pass for Conference North/South.

Edit: It doesn't meet RPL standards because:

Development, in addition to hard standing, must be on more than one side of the ground.

I think that 6k is the minimum requirement to play in the Football League in England (Barnet had to move from Underhill as they didn't meet the criteria) but that also incorporates standing areas.

Interesting stuff Sergey On the plus side the Dumbarton stand has a great Wee bar in it where both sets of fans can mingle and if you fancy a bit of rock climbing ,Dumbarton Rock is a great spot for practicing so it does have some assets
ps meant to add that with hearts Hibs and Rangers and to a lesser extent st mirren all taking bigger away supports to these grounds and swelling thier coffers ,I see little evidence of any of that money being reinvested in ground improvements

[Sergey]

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You have to remember the rangers are in the second tier. Ive no idea what Dumbartons home crows is but it will not be more than their capacity. It would be more bizarre to force them to up that because Rangers are playing them regularly in the league for a couple of seasons or more. Maybe the English game has it wrong?

On the flip side of the coin, it wouldn't cost too much money for Dumbarton to put a covered terracing behind a goal and allocate that solely for away supporters. They would coin it in twice a season against the likes of Hibs/Rangers in the league (and not to mention cup competitions).

Maybe I've just been out of sync with Scottish football for too long, but surely revenue streams for clubs like Dumbarton must be key to survival. It's certainly pivotal in the Non League in England.

[Lago]

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I think thay are the only ones to actually apply to have this but no idea if its been granted. I think certainly in England and Wales their top two divisions need to be all seater legally and requires a chamge in the law.. Im not even sure its a legal requirement up here but an SFA/SPL thing.

Your right purely an SFA/SPL requirement initially 10000 all seater for top league, believe thats now been relaxed.

[greenlex]

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On the flip side of the coin, it wouldn't cost too much money for Dumbarton to put a covered terracing behind a goal and allocate that solely for away supporters. They would coin it in twice a season against the likes of Hibs/Rangers in the league (and not to mention cup competitions).

Maybe I've just been out of sync with Scottish football for too long, but surely revenue streams for clubs like Dumbarton must be key to survival. It's certainly pivotal in the Non League in England.

Im sure they've done the sums. Maybe they are getting enough with the capacity they have. Its only four games counting us and Rangers out of the 18 they have at home with no cup guarantees.

[Velma Dinkley]

Some details about it herehttp://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=1376

[MKHIBEE]

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I think that 6k is the minimum requirement to play in the Football League in England (Barnet had to move from Underhill as they didn't meet the criteria) but that also incorporates standing areas.

Underhill was my favourite away day when Barnet used it, the only advantage the Hive has over it is you can get alcohol at half time

[nellio]

I went to Dumbartons ground for the first time last season and was surprised it only had one stand!

Sent my mate back home a message about it and he couldnt beleive that the stadium was permitted as down south like someone said here you wouldnt even get a confrence game let along the bigger teams like The Huns, Hearts or ourselves playing there.

[hibs0666]

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I find it utterly bizarre that the Scottish authorities deem that Dumbarton's ground is suitable to host a match against Rangers, while their ground wouldn't be allowed to host Leiston vs Grays Athletic.

You would have thought that there would be some ground stipulations in the Scottish league structure (but the fact that there doesn't seem to be any comes as no surprise).

Yup, the requirements on poor old Leiston (population 5,500) are way too onerous. I hope that compliance does not bankrupt the club, or get in the way of the club's sporting ambitions.

[Peevemor]

http://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/fixtures/

Outwith matches against us & sevco, Dumbarton's home attendances this season have ranged from around 700-1100 per match. It would be madness to force them to build extra stands.

As long as the ground is safe, I don't think more should be asked unless they get promotoed to the top league.

[nellio]

Probably a fair comment, didnt realise that they had such low attendence, just need to limit the amount of away fans attending I imagine.

[worcesterhibby]

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I find it utterly bizarre that the Scottish authorities deem that Dumbarton's ground is suitable to host a match against Rangers, while their ground wouldn't be allowed to host Leiston vs Grays Athletic.

You would have thought that there would be some ground stipulations in the Scottish league structure (but the fact that there doesn't seem to be any comes as no surprise).

Seem like common sense if it meets the requirements of the supporters. I notice the last time Leiston Hosted Grays Athletic their attendance was 232....so it seems a bit pointless that their ground has to have a capacity of 3000 !

[lord bunberry]

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On the flip side of the coin, it wouldn't cost too much money for Dumbarton to put a covered terracing behind a goal and allocate that solely for away supporters. They would coin it in twice a season against the likes of Hibs/Rangers in the league (and not to mention cup competitions).

Maybe I've just been out of sync with Scottish football for too long, but surely revenue streams for clubs like Dumbarton must be key to survival. It's certainly pivotal in the Non League in England.

I think they're trying to move to a new stadium

[hibs0666]

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Seem like common sense if it meets the requirements of the supporters. I notice the last time Leiston Hosted Grays Athletic their attendance was 232....so it seems a bit pointless that their ground has to have a capacity of 3000 !

That's a good gate - their average this season is 186, and so their average stadium occupancy is running at 6%. What a criminal waste of investment, and it must be a soul-less experience for the players and punters alike.

Dumbarton have an average stadium occupancy of 54% this season, excluding the huns game this weekend. With larger attendances, and a crowd confined to a single area, it strikes me that Dumbarton should be the team applauded and not some tiny club in a tiny community that has been forced to massively over-invest in its facilities.