Rangers hate songs yesterday, letter sent to SFA & Hibs & Scotsman Editor

[Springbank]

"I am writing to highlight the issue of sectarianism amongst Glasgow football supporters, sadly, in the month of November in the year 2015. In recent weeks my 7 year old son had the honour of being a matchday mascot for Hibs at a Hibs v Rangers match. We had invited family members from across England and Scotland to join us. Some were attending their first football match in Scotland. The overall experience was first class, our son and all our family were treated very well by all at Hibs. However, the songs emanating from the Rangers away stand were a true embarrassment.

The SFA's approach to tackling this seems to be that clubs have taken all the steps they reasonably could have, and any banned songs (that are effectively hate crimes) that are sung in grounds are not the responsibility of the clubs. No punishment materialises, and - after yesterday's match at Easter Road - there is now not even a mention of the matter. I may be wrong but this looks to me like the SFA have accepted sectarianism is back, and is back in a big way. A glance at the footage yesterday would confirm that in the opening 3 minutes at Easter Road the Rangers support were almost unanimously singing "The Sash". A few minutes later in the first half they were almost unanimously singing a banned song about Bobby Sands, to the tune the Fields of Athenry. I was asked the questions (by visiting family) "what are they singing?" and "is that allowed?".

If the answer to the second question is "no" then it is clear that a change of approach is needed from the SFA. There is one way of changing the dynamic instantly, immediately and overnight. It's time to encourage fans to self-police, to take collective responsibility, by introducing a "Sing One Sing All" assumption. Clubs like Rangers have all ticket purchasers' details on file. They know who was present yesterday. If banned songs are sung, then the result should be that every single supporter who purchased a ticket for the away end at Easter Road yesterday is banned from purchasing any more away tickets for 12 months. That will encourage the law-abiding fans (of which even Rangers have a good number) to be emboldened to speak up, to get the filth and bile perpetrators to pipe down, and let decent football supporters enjoy the sport, without a horrific soundtrack. Sectarianism is yesterday's pizza, at least outwith Glasgow. It's time the SFA changed their approach to the issue and introduce collective responsibility, as it is clear that self-policing by fans will be more effective than relying on clubs to address the matter".

Sent today

[greenginger]

I don't think the Sash was on the unenforced banned list.

[Ozyhibby]

The only way to put a stop to it is to deduct points and make them play games behind closed doors.


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[Hibs History]

Excellent letter

I await the stockpile empty gestured response

The Rangers fans flag were also boarder line (containing words like 'Prods' 'Loyal' and images of the Red Hand)

Also never seen as many orange tshirts/jumpers - they know exactly why they do this

Unfortunately the SFA will continue to bury it's collective heads in the sand over this

[wookie70]

The Rangers, born 3 years ago living 3 centuries ago. Well done for speaking up but the establishment will protect their own and I imagine your complaint will get filed. Hopefully time will eventually heal the sectarian problem because you can bet your bottom dollar that the SFA and Police Scotland have no interest in stopping it.

[O'Rourke3]

Were Police Scotland copied in as well? Seems its the polis who dont go into where they are needed. Ecelkent letter.

Sent via the bushes @ EM

[brog]

Great letter, well done!
Separately, the DR are currently serialising Davie Farrell's book, I'll bet JK Rowling is quaking, & in the piece published today he tries to write a humourous piece about his & Alex McDonald's relationship at Airdrie. Essentially, funny man McD whistles The Sash when Oldco have a good result but DF's too scared to retaliate by whistling the Soldier Song when Celtc prevail. These guys are meant to be managing Airdrie at the time!! Until these embedded, ignorant & divisive "tenets" are strangled at birth I'm afraid Scotland & Scottish football in particular will continue to be embarrassed & shamed by these people.

[Carheenlea]

To be honest, I don't pay too much attention to the content of their songs. It's all just a noise to me. Thankfully the way the game panned out, that noise was just limited to sporadic intervals. Nothing to get too worked up about really.

[lucky]

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"I am writing to highlight the issue of sectarianism amongst Glasgow football supporters, sadly, in the month of November in the year 2015. In recent weeks my 7 year old son had the honour of being a matchday mascot for Hibs at a Hibs v Rangers match. We had invited family members from across England and Scotland to join us. Some were attending their first football match in Scotland. The overall experience was first class, our son and all our family were treated very well by all at Hibs. However, the songs emanating from the Rangers away stand were a true embarrassment.

The SFA's approach to tackling this seems to be that clubs have taken all the steps they reasonably could have, and any banned songs (that are effectively hate crimes) that are sung in grounds are not the responsibility of the clubs. No punishment materialises, and - after yesterday's match at Easter Road - there is now not even a mention of the matter. I may be wrong but this looks to me like the SFA have accepted sectarianism is back, and is back in a big way. A glance at the footage yesterday would confirm that in the opening 3 minutes at Easter Road the Rangers support were almost unanimously singing "The Sash". A few minutes later in the first half they were almost unanimously singing a banned song about Bobby Sands, to the tune the Fields of Athenry. I was asked the questions (by visiting family) "what are they singing?" and "is that allowed?".

If the answer to the second question is "no" then it is clear that a change of approach is needed from the SFA. There is one way of changing the dynamic instantly, immediately and overnight. It's time to encourage fans to self-police, to take collective responsibility, by introducing a "Sing One Sing All" assumption. Clubs like Rangers have all ticket purchasers' details on file. They know who was present yesterday. If banned songs are sung, then the result should be that every single supporter who purchased a ticket for the away end at Easter Road yesterday is banned from purchasing any more away tickets for 12 months. That will encourage the law-abiding fans (of which even Rangers have a good number) to be emboldened to speak up, to get the filth and bile perpetrators to pipe down, and let decent football supporters enjoy the sport, without a horrific soundtrack. Sectarianism is yesterday's pizza, at least outwith Glasgow. It's time the SFA changed their approach to the issue and introduce collective responsibility, as it is clear that self-policing by fans will be more effective than relying on clubs to address the matter".

Sent today

Sorry don't support punishing innocent people to get a message across. If Hibs fans in the East singing section sang the "Edinburgh song" would you want all Hibs fans banned for 12 months?

[--------]

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Great letter, well done!
Separately, the DR are currently serialising Davie Farrell's book, I'll bet JK Rowling is quaking, & in the piece published today he tries to write a humourous piece about his & Alex McDonald's relationship at Airdrie. Essentially, funny man McD whistles The Sash when Oldco have a good result but DF's too scared to retaliate by whistling the Soldier Song when Celtc prevail. These guys are meant to be managing Airdrie at the time!! Until these embedded, ignorant & divisive "tenets" are strangled at birth I'm afraid Scotland & Scottish football in particular will continue to be embarrassed & shamed by these people.

I remember MacDonald being interviewed after his Airdrie team had beaten Celtic (I think it was the only time it happened) and when the reporter asked him how he would be celebrating, he answered, "It'll be a good night to burn a few chapels."

My, how we laughed!

[Springbank]

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Sorry don't support punishing innocent people to get a message across. If Hibs fans in the East singing section sang the "Edinburgh song" would you want all Hibs fans banned for 12 months?

To be 100% honest the answer is:
these songs don't help, the turning a blind eye / deaf ear to them only encourages worse behaviour (like the spitting on children by Rangers fans that led to an escalating fight on Easter Road by a rangers bus yesterday).

If we focus only on the spit and the reaction that followed, it would be like treating lung cancer with some cough medicine. The root cause of the violence is the attitude that accepts hate songs, hate messages, and doesn't stand up to be counted against them

Those of us of a certain age will remember around Argentina 78 and Spain 82, the tartan army was not the widely admired visiting friendly group it's widely thought of now. Back then people worried more about Scotland fans than England fans going feral after a few drinks.

How did that change, and change completely and unrecognisably? It was simple. Folk had to register, the good fans (who are the vast majority even in Glasgow and Gorgie) were then given more reason to say to the wee guy who was looking for bother "wind yer neck in son, you're not costing me a ticket for the next big game"

What that tells us (because it worked) and what the current SFA approach tells us (because it isn't working) is that youonly stamp out unacceptable behaviour when the fans themselves have a reason to. Right now there's nothing to stop Rangers fans, and that attitude only encouraged the wee'est of the wee are the peepil to spit on local football fans yesterday

So yes, I would support it, if it stopped the cancer because cough medicine ain't working

[Pretty Boy]

I'm sure some Rangers fans will argue that these songs are 'traditional' or 'cultural'. Nonsense of course but that's what they will say.

However post game yesterday I went down St Claire Street then had to go back up Easter Road to get to the bank. I had to wade through Rangers fans and, along with several others including kids, was subjected to downright bigotry. Shouting at people in the street that they are a 'fenian', 'taig', 'tarrier', 'bead rattler' etc is inexcusable. Add to that the Sikh father and children in Hibs scarves ahead of me who were called 'pakis' and 'terrorists' and you see the ignorance you are dealing with. The Police of course were nowhere to be seen at this point despite it being the key meeting point between rival fans.

Something has to be done about Rangers fans. I don't want to see football become all sanitised and the names go in one ear and out the other with me but it's just not on. They are vile.

[Forza Fred]

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The only way to put a stop to it is to deduct points and make them play games behind closed doors.


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This.

It is the club that must drive the change among its supporters.

[Onceinawhile]

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Sorry don't support punishing innocent people to get a message across. If Hibs fans in the East singing section sang the "Edinburgh song" would you want all Hibs fans banned for 12 months?

But they don't. That's the point.

3,500 is 10% of the rangers' season ticket holders. I don't see 10% of ours signing offensive songs.

[liamh2202]

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Sorry don't support punishing innocent people to get a message across. If Hibs fans in the East singing section sang the "Edinburgh song" would you want all Hibs fans banned for 12 months?

I agree , there are still hibs songs sung which mention intercourse with the monarch . yes none of these songs have a place at the football but lets not pretend we dont have our minority

[Onceinawhile]

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I agree , there are still hibs songs sung which mention intercourse with the monarch . yes none of these songs have a place at the football but lets not pretend we dont have our minority

In 20+ years I've heard that song once. Sung by about 8 people.

[lucky]

I'm not defending the songs that were sung but banning every supporter is not the answer.

[emerald green]

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"I am writing to highlight the issue of sectarianism amongst Glasgow football supporters, sadly, in the month of November in the year 2015. In recent weeks my 7 year old son had the honour of being a matchday mascot for Hibs at a Hibs v Rangers match. We had invited family members from across England and Scotland to join us. Some were attending their first football match in Scotland. The overall experience was first class, our son and all our family were treated very well by all at Hibs. However, the songs emanating from the Rangers away stand were a true embarrassment.

The SFA's approach to tackling this seems to be that clubs have taken all the steps they reasonably could have, and any banned songs (that are effectively hate crimes) that are sung in grounds are not the responsibility of the clubs. No punishment materialises, and - after yesterday's match at Easter Road - there is now not even a mention of the matter. I may be wrong but this looks to me like the SFA have accepted sectarianism is back, and is back in a big way. A glance at the footage yesterday would confirm that in the opening 3 minutes at Easter Road the Rangers support were almost unanimously singing "The Sash". A few minutes later in the first half they were almost unanimously singing a banned song about Bobby Sands, to the tune the Fields of Athenry. I was asked the questions (by visiting family) "what are they singing?" and "is that allowed?".

If the answer to the second question is "no" then it is clear that a change of approach is needed from the SFA. There is one way of changing the dynamic instantly, immediately and overnight. It's time to encourage fans to self-police, to take collective responsibility, by introducing a "Sing One Sing All" assumption. Clubs like Rangers have all ticket purchasers' details on file. They know who was present yesterday. If banned songs are sung, then the result should be that every single supporter who purchased a ticket for the away end at Easter Road yesterday is banned from purchasing any more away tickets for 12 months. That will encourage the law-abiding fans (of which even Rangers have a good number) to be emboldened to speak up, to get the filth and bile perpetrators to pipe down, and let decent football supporters enjoy the sport, without a horrific soundtrack. Sectarianism is yesterday's pizza, at least outwith Glasgow. It's time the SFA changed their approach to the issue and introduce collective responsibility, as it is clear that self-policing by fans will be more effective than relying on clubs to address the matter".

Sent today

I'm not trying to nit-pick here, but can I say that sectarianism is present throughout many parts of Scotland. Some parts are worse than others. Try places like Larkhall, Airdrie, and many old mining areas of Ayrshire and West Lothian for example.

It's not just confined to Glasgow. There's just more of them there.

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The Rangers, born 3 years ago living 3 centuries ago. Well done for speaking up but the establishment will protect their own and I imagine your complaint will get filed. Hopefully time will eventually heal the sectarian problem because you can bet your bottom dollar that the SFA and Police Scotland have no interest in stopping it.

The bit in bold - I think we will have to wait a very long time, judging by how long the problem of sectarianism has existed in Scotland to date. I don't believe it's going to go away anytime soon.

How do you stop this stuff being passed down from parents and grandparents through the generations? They don't see it as being "sectarian". They believe they are right.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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I'm sure some Rangers fans will argue that these songs are 'traditional' or 'cultural'. Nonsense of course but that's what they will say.

However post game yesterday I went down St Claire Street then had to go back up Easter Road to get to the bank. I had to wade through Rangers fans and, along with several others including kids, was subjected to downright bigotry. Shouting at people in the street that they are a 'fenian', 'taig', 'tarrier', 'bead rattler' etc is inexcusable. Add to that the Sikh father and children in Hibs scarves ahead of me who were called 'pakis' and 'terrorists' and you see the ignorance you are dealing with. The Police of course were nowhere to be seen at this point despite it being the key meeting point between rival fans.

Something has to be done about Rangers fans. I don't want to see football become all sanitised and the names go in one ear and out the other with me but it's just not on. They are vile.

That's about right

I don't agree with collective punishment along the lines of banning all 4,000 The Rangers fans, even if it was 3,500 of them singing the offensive stuff. As somebody else said, half the time you have no idea what the hell they are singing about anyway .... though its a pretty safe bet its gonna be sectarian pish.

Its pretty upsetting to hear that the two Sikh lads were subjected to abuse by the knuckle dragging bigots who seem happy to add racism, not to mention world class ignorance of other cultures and religions, to their list of reasons why the Earth would be a better place without them. The father and son involved sound like Mr Singh and his lad who are often to be seen in the FF lower with their extremely cool Green and White turbans. For me they are the embodiment of the diverse and welcoming to everybody message Hibs are trying to project to the community and I sincerely hope what must have been a horrible experience hasn't put them off. Though from the little I do know about Sikhs I'm guessing its unlikely a few knuckle dragging bigots with big mouths and small brains will be enough to phase them.

[Beefster]

Never mind the songs, one thieving jakey ******* in the upper tier stole one of our balls right before the second half. Fair ripped my knitting so it did (until Hanlon stuck it right up the c****).

Edit: since when are we not allowed to call them 'c****'. Well, that's just ****ing ****ing **** foam **** ****s rubber.

[johnbc70]

You will be lucky to even get an acknowledgment from the SFA. I wrote a few years back questioning their decision to not introduce the spray foam for free kicks (which they have now introduced 12 months after everyone else did) and never got any kind of reply. They treat their customers with total contempt.

[Andy74]

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You will be lucky to even get an acknowledgment from the SFA. I wrote a few years back questioning their decision to not introduce the spray foam for free kicks (which they have now introduced 12 months after everyone else did) and never got any kind of reply. They treat their customers with total contempt.

We might have got the spray foam but its the most innefective spray I've seen used anywhere. You can hardly see it then it disappears in seconds. We must have gone for the cheap version!

[Springbank]

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You will be lucky to even get an acknowledgment from the SFA. I wrote a few years back questioning their decision to not introduce the spray foam for free kicks (which they have now introduced 12 months after everyone else did) and never got any kind of reply. They treat their customers with total contempt.

You're probably right, but this is the first time for a while there's been those songs with a professional air brushing in the media, no mention

If we stand aside and say nothing then that's no different from saying it's acceptable. I don't think there's any place for their bile in Nov 2015 in Leith so I'm making my suggestion.

It worked for the tartan army 30 years ago

[Kato]

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I agree , there are still hibs songs sung which mention intercourse with the monarch . yes none of these songs have a place at the football but lets not pretend we dont have our minority

Difference being no-one, well at least it wasn't obviously audible if it were, was singing that on Sunday. The minority within the Rangers fans are the ones who only sing football related songs which, amongst them, are few and far between.

There is a moronic minority within the Hibs support, every club has them. Rangers are a different kettle of fish whereby practically every utterance, chant and song has one theme and it isn't anything to do with football.

Saying that - they should be allowed to sing what they want - makes it easier to spot the bigots.

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

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Difference being no-one, well at least it wasn't obviously audible if it were, was singing that on Sunday. The minority within the Rangers fans are the ones who only sing football related songs which, amongst them, are few and far between.

There is a moronic minority within the Hibs support, every club has them. Rangers are a different kettle of fish whereby practically every utterance, chant and song has one theme and it isn't anything to do with football.

Saying that - they should be allowed to sing what they want - makes it easier to spot the bigots.

You can hardly miss 3,500 of them !

[Spike Mandela]

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Were Police Scotland copied in as well? Seems its the polis who dont go into where they are needed. Ecelkent letter.

Sent via the bushes @ EM

I think in terms of sectarian chanting at football, much like the use of soft drugs like cannabis, the police have neither the will nor the manpower to deal with it en masse.

Little individual cases will be dealt with but for me this is a football problem and the football authorities in this country are **** scared to do anything about it. Teams have been raking in the sectarian shilling for years and are reluctant to change it.

[Sir David Gray]

Good luck getting a reply of any note from the SFA.

The authorities are not interested in the slightest in trying to put a stop to this behaviour.

We'll still be talking about this in 50 years' time.

[Hedlund12]

I heard a couple of their fans were in the West Lower singing sectarian songs full pelt amongst hibs fans! They were removed from the stand/ground two minutes into the game.
Grade A holes!

[DaveF]

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Never mind the songs, one thieving jakey ******* in the upper tier stole one of our balls right before the second half. Fair ripped my knitting so it did.

I saw that as well. Pretty sure he handed to a guy behind him who promptly put it inside his shell suit (probably) top. No sign of any steward or Police going after him. If it was a 6 year old in the FF they would no doubt have been rugby tackled and given the rest of the game in the cells

[overdrive]

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We might have got the spray foam but its the most innefective spray I've seen used anywhere. You can hardly see it then it disappears in seconds. We must have gone for the cheap version!

The line around the ball has disappeared by the time the ref has counted the steps for the wall and sprayed the line in front of the wall.

You can buy the stuff in Poundland - I bet it is the Poundland stuff they use!