I'm glad to see we are becoming more ruthless with youngsters. I think Harris and Stanton might be gone. Some part of me would be happy if they stayed but I honestly don't think they've improved much since they broke through. Handling is in similar boat tbh. We've had a history of clinging on to youngsters hoping that one day they'll come good.
Obviously they might but by now I would have expected Harris to be tearing most defences a new one due to his pace and acceleration. I would've expected Stanton to be fitter and more physical. They both should be regulars by now.
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Thread: Ruthless with youngsters
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11-06-2015 08:57 AM #1madhatterLeft by mutual consent!
Ruthless with youngsters
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11-06-2015 09:07 AM #2
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Hopefully this is being addressed through the academy. When you look at Hearts, no one really raves about the players in their youth teams yet they all go straight in to the first team and perform pretty well.
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11-06-2015 09:29 AM #3This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
A wee bit harsh on Sam Stanton to be honest. Sam has generally done well when used his problem this season has been Allan, Fyvie, Robbo, McGeouch and Craig. All very good players. Handling is different. I think someone must bite the bullet and play him in a specific position as I honestly don't think we know what his best position is! Play him somewhere and stick to it. I've also said before Harris will come back and play a bigger part this season. I have faith in the boy.
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11-06-2015 09:31 AM #4This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-06-2015 09:50 AM #5
It has to be said that Stanton, Harris and Handling have been around the first team for a while now without looking like becoming regulars. But all three of them have talent, so its a tough one for Hibs. I would love to see Stanton go out on loan, for me he is the one with the most potential.
Perhaps its because someone mentioned players needing to bulk up, but all of a sudden Graham Payne who played for Dundee Utd came to mind ... all the bulk of a pipe cleaner and impossible to knock off the ball, what a great wee player he was.
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11-06-2015 10:13 AM #6
It has been mentioned on a good few threads that our main problem was the youth players were not nearly ready enough to be introduced to 1st team football, this was the main reason Bill Hendry and James Mcdonaugh were released from their contracts ( I think James was offered a lesser coaching role but turned it down ). The football our youth were playing was always nice pretty attacking football but strength and conditioning and mental strength was neglected, meaning they turned up at 1st team level still looking like wee laddies and then they struggled to cope with the more physical side of the game.
This was 2 years ago now, we have specialist strength and conditioning coaches, so I'd expect to see these 3 lads pushing for regular 1st team spots but they still seem to be behind where they should be. Sam is now 21, as to is Danny with Harris now 20 years old. They are now of an age where they should be 1st picks on the team sheet but they aint, aslo we still don't know where Sammy and Danny are best played, midfield, attacking mid, out wide we still don't know.
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11-06-2015 10:17 AM #7This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
But IMO at the end of the day it's the players that need to realise this is holding them back massively, when I was 16 I realised I had to join a gym to play better in football, I bulked up and my all round game improved as a result. Now I never played at a very high level or anything, so for a youngster at an spl team to neglect this side to me is staggering.
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11-06-2015 10:24 AM #8This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
So maybe Stubbs thinks Sam will be given this season to push into Craig's role? This is a huge season for Sam and I for one have great faith in him to be a big player for us...
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11-06-2015 10:34 AM #9This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
There is absolutely no excuse for this to be happening, given the facilities we have at East Mains. Players not bulking out is down to either poor coaching or laziness on the players part, or both.
I do believe this improved last season but there is still room for more work to be done there.
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11-06-2015 10:39 AM #10
Ryan Gauld and our very own Riordan are not big lads but broke through anyhow - although I agree, players can disregard their physical development as well.
I hope all three prove themselves worthy of a 1st team place this season, it is time to step up.
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11-06-2015 10:40 AM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-06-2015 10:48 AM #12This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Gray, forster, Fontaine, Stevenson, fyvie, Allan are all stocky muscular guys, u can also see Cummings is starting to add quite a bit of muscle
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11-06-2015 11:09 AM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Strength doesn't come from pure muscle bulk alone, you can be strong without being huge. If you've ever met Fontaine you'd see this, he's a fairly tall lad and on the pitch looks a decent size, stand next to him and there's nothing of him, no huge muscles just strong sinewy ones, very similar Farid and Malonga.
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11-06-2015 11:55 AM #14This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-06-2015 11:56 AM #15
http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.3...3676155752.jpg
This photo looks like Stanton is his son haha
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11-06-2015 12:00 PM #16This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I can tell you he's not, I met him a few times and although big, he's not huge with bulked up muscles, strong and sinewy like Farid etc.
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11-06-2015 12:04 PM #17This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-06-2015 12:10 PM #18
The wonderful thing about Football is that you don't need to be a certain height like in Basketball, or a certain build like in the NFL, this is a sport open to everyone of any shape or size. Doesn't matter if you're built like Xavi or Cristiano Ronaldo or Peter Crouch, you can make it if you're good enough.
I am currently not convinced by Handling, he should really have stood out in this league but failed to, comparing him with Cummings who has stepped forward and finished as the leagues top scorer. I like Stanton, there is definitely a player in there but next season is make or brake for him
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11-06-2015 01:05 PM #19This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If you look at the midfield that kept him out only Allan would be close to untouchable performance wise.
Any of Fyvie, Robbo, McGeouch and Craig could have been dislodged with the right performance (which is no slight on those players as McGeough had a pretty good season).
He managed 857 minutes over 22 appearances in the league which suggests that he had chances but didn't push on.
Somewhat harsh I know but I think more ruthlessness and less consoling arm round the shoulder / misty eyed perception of youth is probably a significant part of our long term malaise......
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11-06-2015 01:08 PM #20This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-06-2015 01:17 PM #21This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-06-2015 01:34 PM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Those three all had good seasons and did work well together.....was more that I could have seen Stanton dislodging one of them with a series of excellent performances. Wasn't a criticism of any of those three and the only reason Allan was excepted was (for me at least) he regularly performed at a level above anything I've seen so far from Stanton.
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11-06-2015 01:44 PM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
But I suppose that's the point of the thread - should we be harsher on and expect more of our young players?
On the minutes front and looking only at the league:
8 starts + 14 sub performances at around 20 minutes each.
This against generally weak opposition.
I'd argue that if, as the thread is suggesting, we're being more ruthless then that's a more than decent chance to stake a claim and that a player who genuinely has "it" would have stuck his hand up.
Not ruling out the fact that sticking by players and gradually coaxing the best out of them is a decent option but I think it's worth debating whether the risk of throwing away a good one merits sticking by a lot who don't make it.
I guess it comes down to what you think will get the best out of a young player:
Ruthless to force them to perform or nurturing so that they're not too scared.
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11-06-2015 01:45 PM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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11-06-2015 02:02 PM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Deffinetly think Stanton has the ability and would of provided a good balance to the midfield, very creative as well and can score goals. Hope he pushes on this season
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11-06-2015 04:18 PM #26
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I honestly don't think coming on here though and making threads about them not being good enough helps the situation. These young boys probably come on here and read things, can't imagine it does wonders for their confidence. Who remembers all the David Wotherspoon threads from a few years back? Now he's in the SPFL/Europe and we're stuck down here so that shows you how much half the people starting those threads really knew about judging a player. It's amazing what a little bit of confidence can do in football.
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11-06-2015 04:31 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
And tell me, how many years massaging their egos do we have to do to wait for them to start stepping up, they are not young boys any more, in fact only a year or two less than Allan and Fyvie, they should be forcing Craig and Robertson out the team and they didn't.
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11-06-2015 04:42 PM #28
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11-06-2015 04:59 PM #29This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Or maybe because we had our best midfield since the days of Boozy, Scotty etc. At the start of last season no one would have believed we would have Allan, Fyvie & McGeouch in our team. If Stanton wasn't getting a game ahead of the likes of Taiwo or Tudor-Jones I would agree.
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11-06-2015 06:23 PM #30
In my opinion, the worst thing that could happen to youth development was the disbanding of the reserve league. There is a huge gulf between the youngsters and the first team. The reserve league allowed good youngsters to pit their talents against seasoned pro's in a safe environment. Now it's Under 20 or first team with nothing in between. Whilst this may suit teams like the OF etc who can go out and buy ready made first team players, clubs like us who need to nurture youth now don't have the environment to do so.
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