Pet Peeves IV

[Moulin Yarns]

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How about we start with the new St James Centre?😯

Or maybe the original one (which I worked on as an architectural technician 😳)

[Bangkok Hibby]

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How about we start with the new St James Centre?😯

Ah, I havent seen it 🙂

[Moulin Yarns]

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How about we start with the new St James Centre?😯

I presume you are referring to the hotel which is the, em, prominent building of the development. 😉

[Peevemor]

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I presume you are referring to the hotel which is the, em, prominent building of the development.

The Calton Coiler?

[The Modfather]

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I broadly agree. I think with modern art part of the issue is people will react with a 'I could have done that'.

The point being: they didn't. If we take 2 examples of British art in relatively recent times both Damien Hirst's Spots series and Tracey Emin's My Bed provoke strong reactions. It's easy to say anyone could paint some coloured spots or let people look at their manky bedroom. The difference is the artists in question thought of it, conceptualised it and gave it a story that spoke to people and made them want to part with money for it.

I hadn't heard of the Lo Sono invisible sculpture until now. I would never have thought of it though and even if I did no one would have paid me for it because I don't have the body of work to support the given story.

For me art should be provocative and divisive. There's nothing more boring than everyone agreeing. I remember going to see the Mona Lisa and being totally underwhelmed. I'm not disputing it's a great and iconic painting, everyone thinks that, but we have all seen it thousands of times. People were crowded around it and it was a thoroughly depressing experience. Give me a Cecily Brown or Jean Michel Basquiat any day.

For me that’s the crux of it. It’s not the idea or concept that’s at the heart of whether people would buy the art or not. People are in effect buying the brand (the artist) rather than the art/idea/concept on its own merit.

[Peevemor]

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For me that’s the crux of it. It’s not the idea or concept that’s at the heart of whether people would buy the art or not. People are in effect buying the brand (the artist) rather than the art/idea/concept on its own merit.

Doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

[matty_f]

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Doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

I think it’s a great idea. So much so that I’ve got myself replica of the invisible statue for my living room.

Open to offers, by the way.

[Keith_M]

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I broadly agree. I think with modern art part of the issue is people will react with a 'I could have done that'.

The point being: they didn't. If we take 2 examples of British art in relatively recent times both Damien Hirst's Spots series and Tracey Emin's My Bed provoke strong reactions. It's easy to say anyone could paint some coloured spots or let people look at their manky bedroom. The difference is the artists in question thought of it, conceptualised it and gave it a story that spoke to people and made them want to part with money for it.

I hadn't heard of the Lo Sono invisible sculpture until now. I would never have thought of it though and even if I did no one would have paid me for it because I don't have the body of work to support the given story.....

So, are you saying that anything can be art, as long as the person already had a reputation as an artist and they're the one that thought of it first? And this is valid even if the art doesn't actually exist?

In which case, I have a framed and signed, invisible, non-fungible copy of the Hibs team holding aloft the Scottish cup they won in 2021... created by Damien Hirst.

It's yours for only 50,000 Bitcoins.

[Logie Green]

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Art is in the eye of the beholder 😉

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

[Hibrandenburg]

Art is good and ****. I find some things valued at millions to be **** but some other things virtually worthless to be good. The value is that what someone is willing to pay for it regardless of mine or anyone else's opinion.

[Bangkok Hibby]

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Art is good and ****. I find some things valued at millions to be **** but some other things virtually worthless to be good. The value is that what someone is willing to pay for it regardless of mine or anyone else's opinion.

Totally agree, however nobody has really addressed my question. Are there "artists" out there just ripping the piss knowing gullible idiots will pay money for what they believe to be art. My opinion is a firm yes.
I've enjoyed this discussion....thanks to all.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Next one....,"university of life" and "school of hard knocks" on fb profiles. At least try to be original.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Totally agree, however nobody has really addressed my question. Are there "artists" out there just ripping the piss knowing gullible idiots will pay money for what they believe to be art. My opinion is a firm yes.
I've enjoyed this discussion....thanks to all.

Funnily enough the German word for art is Kunst. It's also used to describe a skill. The skill/art of relieving fools of their hard earned money for example.

[Keith_M]

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Totally agree, however nobody has really addressed my question. Are there "artists" out there just ripping the piss knowing gullible idiots will pay money for what they believe to be art. My opinion is a firm yes.
I've enjoyed this discussion....thanks to all.

I'd like to direct you to the story of The Emperor's New Clothes.


The Tailor was quite aware he was ripping the p1ss, so I'm sure some of these 'artists' are just as aware, but happy to take people's money.

In that story, the wee boy shouting 'he's got no clothes on' was enough to end the charade.

Nowadays, anybody doing something similar with so-called art is called a 'philistine', or told they're just not capable of understanding true art...


...Naw mate, it's a bl**dy unmade bed and the invisible statue doesn't actually exist, but if you've got money to burn and really are that thick, then you wire in.

[Peevemor]

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Art is good and ****. I find some things valued at millions to be **** but some other things virtually worthless to be good. The value is that what someone is willing to pay for it regardless of mine or anyone else's opinion.

I'm really struggling to see how an invisible statue, ie. nothing, can be worth €15k.

[Caversham Green]

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Ah, I havent seen it 🙂

A bit like Le Sono then....

Anyway, my peeve is nothing to do with art - it's fireworks. Specifically loud fireworks set off on days that aren't 5th November.

I was feeling a bit rubbish last night (due to a lack of sleep on Friday night) so went to bed fairly early. I was just about dropping off when a LOUD volley of fireworks went off and lasted for about half an hour. It started around 10.15 I think so I guess it was some Italians celebrating a narrow win against Austria.

Bloody Italians.

[pollution]

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I'm really struggling to see how an invisible statue, ie. nothing, can be worth €15k.

It is a bit like the concept of money and bitcoin. As long as people accept that it is worth what it says on the eg banknote, it works.

Cash has been around for hundreds of years and is a true indicator of what it says it is; now card transactions are the next stage of that.

Bitcoin has a big big problem to overcome widespread acceptance in that it is not backed up by treasury foundations but it does work

among those who accept that it is worth what it says it is.

[Peevemor]

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It is a bit like the concept of money and bitcoin. As long as people accept that it is worth what it says on the eg banknote, it works.

Cash has been around for hundreds of years and is a true indicator of what it says it is; now card transactions are the next stage of that.

Bitcoin has a big big problem to overcome widespread acceptance in that it is not backed up by treasury foundations but it does work

among those who accept that it is worth what it says it is.

If I was looking to buy something online and tried to pay in either bitcoin or invisible statues, I think I know which would be more readily accepted.

There's (almost) always been a virtual quality to currency. Objets d'art that dont exist on the other hand...

[Future17]

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I'm really struggling to see how an invisible statue, ie. nothing, can be worth €15k.

It's not necessary for something to have a physical presence in order for it to have value.

In any event, people who "collect" art don't do so solely because of how it looks. Even those who initially decide to buy based on appearance know they may pay more than what that being able to look at it is actually worth to them. There's an accepted increase in price based on what it might be worth to someone to "own" the piece, as well as how its value may appreciate in future. These latter considerations apply to the invisible piece as much as any other work.

[Hibs90]

Social media influencers

[Peevemor]

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It's not necessary for something to have a physical presence in order for it to have value.

In any event, people who "collect" art don't do so solely because of how it looks. Even those who initially decide to buy based on appearance know they may pay more than what that being able to look at it is actually worth to them. There's an accepted increase in price based on what it might be worth to someone to "own" the piece, as well as how its value may appreciate in future. These latter considerations apply to the invisible piece as much as any other work.

I understand what your saying, but I'm still not convinced.

[Northernhibee]

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I broadly agree. I think with modern art part of the issue is people will react with a 'I could have done that'.

The point being: they didn't. If we take 2 examples of British art in relatively recent times both Damien Hirst's Spots series and Tracey Emin's My Bed provoke strong reactions. It's easy to say anyone could paint some coloured spots or let people look at their manky bedroom. The difference is the artists in question thought of it, conceptualised it and gave it a story that spoke to people and made them want to part with money for it.

I hadn't heard of the Lo Sono invisible sculpture until now. I would never have thought of it though and even if I did no one would have paid me for it because I don't have the body of work to support the given story.

For me art should be provocative and divisive. There's nothing more boring than everyone agreeing. I remember going to see the Mona Lisa and being totally underwhelmed. I'm not disputing it's a great and iconic painting, everyone thinks that, but we have all seen it thousands of times. People were crowded around it and it was a thoroughly depressing experience. Give me a Cecily Brown or Jean Michel Basquiat any day.

It’s what makes Daniel Sloss’s Netflix special that resulted in tens of thousands of break ups or indeed ‘Meta Machine Music’ by Lou Reed works of art - both were visions of the two artists that provoked an extreme reaction. My favourite musician is Björk as her shows are visually stunning, very uncompromising and carry a strong environmental message. You could see the crowd get smaller as her headline set at Primavera go on, but there were plenty of people there who were completely enthralled.

Whether it’s artists, musicians, comedians or the like there’s nothing Inhate more than someone trying to be a crowdpleaser. If something is just “nice” or “pleasant” then it’s not art IMO. It needs to evoke some sort of reaction, whatever the format.

It’s maybe pretentiousness but I generally find my favourite pieces of art are the ones that piss people off.

[Northernhibee]

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I think it’s a great idea. So much so that I’ve got myself replica of the invisible statue for my living room.

Open to offers, by the way.

I’ve got an invisible barrel load of invisible twenty quid notes if that’s good enough?

[Moulin Yarns]

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It’s what makes Daniel Sloss’s Netflix special that resulted in tens of thousands of break ups or indeed ‘Meta Machine Music’ by Lou Reed works of art - both were visions of the two artists that provoked an extreme reaction. My favourite musician is Björk as her shows are visually stunning, very uncompromising and carry a strong environmental message. You could see the crowd get smaller as her headline set at Primavera go on, but there were plenty of people there who were completely enthralled.

Whether it’s artists, musicians, comedians or the like there’s nothing Inhate more than someone trying to be a crowdpleaser. If something is just “nice” or “pleasant” then it’s not art IMO. It needs to evoke some sort of reaction, whatever the format.

It’s maybe pretentiousness but I generally find my favourite pieces of art are the ones that piss people off.

Now that music has been mentioned, everyone has to listen to 4'33" by John Cage at least once 😉

The sheet music is for sale at £8.95 if anyone wants to play it.

[Scouse Hibee]

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I'm really struggling to see how an invisible statue, ie. nothing, can be worth €15k.

Everyone is struggling to see it.

[Bangkok Hibby]

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Now that music has been mentioned, everyone has to listen to 4'33" by John Cage at least once 😉

The sheet music is for sale at £8.95 if anyone wants to play it.

His most important work according to the man himself....more bollocks. there's a youtube performance where the audience give a standing ovation FFS, except one guy who's clearly unimpressed, he doesn't even clap. Good lad!

[Keith_M]

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It's not necessary for something to have a physical presence in order for it to have value.

Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

[Hibrandenburg]

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I'm really struggling to see how an invisible statue, ie. nothing, can be worth €15k.

Great conversation piece at parties?

[heretoday]

Went to the new St James Quarter today. Ghastly place.
The usual beauts queuing for shops and food outlets. Nothing to see here.
I wonder how long it'll be before Poundland moves in!

[Scouse Hibee]

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Went to the new St James Quarter today. Ghastly place.
The usual beauts queuing for shops and food outlets. Nothing to see here.
I wonder how long it'll be before Poundland moves in!

That’s totally the opposite to what all other folk that have been have told me. They said it looks fantastic and once fully open it will be great.