Have we actually improved?

[H18 SFR]

Since this time last year, have we actually improved?

A comment by my son has just made me ask myself that very question. My initial response was of course we have, overwhelmingly have. Then I read posts on here, posts that show we have only consistently taken points off the part time teams with the exception of Rangers who were absolutely rotten.

The question is, in reality, have we actually greatly improved or is progress being made at a rate which is not acceptable? I'm unsure.

[Just Alf]

Have we improved? - Yes

Have we improved enough? - No

[Leithenhibby]

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Since this time last year, have we actually improved?

A comment by my son has just made me ask myself that very question. My initial response was of course we have, overwhelmingly have. Then I read posts on here, posts that show we have only consistently taken points off the part time teams with the exception of Rangers who were absolutely rotten.

The question is, in reality, have we actually greatly improved or is progress being made at a rate which is not acceptable? I'm unsure.

We have matched and taken points off Hearts!.. The progress being made may not be as fast as we would like (some demand) but we are most definitely heading in the right direction.

We all knew (if we are being honest) that we would finish (as it stands) 3rd or 4th. I also think that everyone thought that, The Rangers would win the league.

Answering your question, absolutely yes. The whole set up at our club has changed for the better, and I mean, everything

[B.H.F.C]

What we had at this time last year would be doing considerably worse than what we have now.

However, we've failed to win half our league games against some poor sides.

Must do better.

[cabbageandribs1875]

lets compare this seasons team to last, no doubt playing prettier football this season, but against the likes of Alloa/Dumbarton/Livingston, if we cant beat teams like Falkirk/Q.o.S/Raith Rovers at ER then why do most/some people reckon we could compete with the likes of Ross co, st.mirren/Partick thistle in the big boys league...imo of course

[matty_f]

We have definitely improved imho.

3 defeats in a row has justifiably got people asking questions but we went from December to March undefeated, winning the majority of games and looking like a good side.

I don't think we have almost of a sudden become a bad team, and I don't think that there is much doubt that we have improved. We could and probably should be doing better still, so there is room for improvement but we are a different side to the one that failed so badly last season.

[Hibrandenburg]

Saturday was my first game since relegation and I can categorically say no. Our opposition is inferior to that what we faced in the Premier League and we still can't dominate them. Last season we were cycling uphill and struggling, this season we're on the downhill stretch and travelling faster but it's still the same bike, only the terrain has changed.

[Leithenhibby]

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lets compare this seasons team to last, no doubt playing prettier football this season, but against the likes of Alloa/Dumbarton/Livingston, if we cant beat teams like Falkirk/Q.o.S/Raith Rovers at ER then why do most/some people reckon we could compete with the likes of Ross co, st.mirren/Partick thistle in the big boys league...imo of course

I have followed my beloved club for 45 years and those teams have always given us a run for our money. I think you are doing them a disservice to be honest. IMO

[Del Boy]

Definitely improved. We have better footballers now, not brilliant but better squad than last year. But still too soft.

[Expecting Rain]

We`ve improved but are still almost half a team short of a very good standard, a goalkeeper, left back/wing back, a better balance in the centre back position and another forward would speed the recovery.

[Pretty Boy]

We have definitely improved on the horror show that was the 'Butcher era'.

There's still plenty room for further improvement though and if we fail to earn promotion this season, by no means a certainty depsite the last 3 games, then we have to get off to a flyer next year.

[Leithenhibby]

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We have definitely improved on the horror show that was the 'Butcher era'.

There's still plenty room for further improvement though and if we fail to earn promotion this season, by no means a certainty depsite the last 3 games, then we have to get off to a flyer next year.

We were nowhere near ready this season, looking back to the summer, we had 14 players and, Alan Stubbs (and team) had 3 weeks to get a team sorted for the KO. Always going to struggle in that position

[Ozyhibby]

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We have definitely improved imho.

3 defeats in a row has justifiably got people asking questions but we went from December to March undefeated, winning the majority of games and looking like a good side.

I don't think we have almost of a sudden become a bad team, and I don't think that there is much doubt that we have improved. We could and probably should be doing better still, so there is room for improvement but we are a different side to the one that failed so badly last season.

When you consider Falkirk, Queen of the South and Raith combined have a smaller playing budget than us then you have to say we are doing extremely poorly.
Given the facilities, the sports scientists, nutritionists and large coaching staff we have compared to these teams and it becomes clear that we are failing badly.
Yes, it's a different style of football to Butchers but it is no more successful.
We did have a decent run of beating the part time teams it that should be a given.
When people say we have improved they generally list inputs like the new coaching set up, scouting network, PR work by Leeann etc. or they parrot lines taken by the club like we are the fittest team in the league. This is a trick used by politicians when they list things they are spending (your) money on. Usually little of it has any benefit to you.
If we measure outputs, actual results on the pitch, then I would say we are about the same level as last season and probably not as good as under Fenlon.
There is still time to turn it around and make it the best season ever but time is running out.

[lord bunberry]

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Saturday was my first game since relegation and I can categorically say no. Our opposition is inferior to that what we faced in the Premier League and we still can't dominate them. Last season we were cycling uphill and struggling, this season we're on the downhill stretch and travelling faster but it's still the same bike, only the terrain has changed.

You can't assess our overall improvement(or lack of) from watching 1 game.

[Leithenhibby]

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When you consider Falkirk, Queen of the South and Raith combined have a smaller playing budget than us then you have to say we are doing extremely poorly.
Given the facilities, the sports scientists, nutritionists and large coaching staff we have compared to these teams and it becomes clear that we are failing badly.
Yes, it's a different style of football to Butchers but it is no more successful.
We did have a decent run of beating the part time teams it that should be a given.
When people say we have improved they generally list inputs like the new coaching set up, scouting network, PR work by Leeann etc. or they parrot lines taken by the club like we are the fittest team in the league. This is a trick used by politicians when they list things they are spending (your) money on. Usually little of it has any benefit to you.
If we measure outputs, actual results on the pitch, then I would say we are about the same level as last season and probably not as good as under Fenlon.
There is still time to turn it around and make it the best season ever but time is running out.

The set up has got to be given time to kick in, IMO. We had a squad in the summer (3 weeks to ko) that didn't even resemble a team........... This will take time, granted it's not what we want to hear but that's just how it's gonna be.

[Hibrandenburg]

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You can't assess our overall improvement(or lack of) from watching 1 game.

So Saturday was just a one off?

[Ozyhibby]

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The set up has got to be given time to kick in, IMO. We had a squad in the summer (3 weeks to ko) that didn't even resemble a team........... This will take time, granted it's not what we want to hear but that's just how it's gonna be.

It's always jam tomorrow with Hibs. It's not even the club who say it now, the fans say it for them.

[GreenArmy1875]

I think we have some great players at the club but i really think the way we play football does not suit us. We need a few pacy wingers in the summer hopefully with Harris returning with some confidence in form but need another 2 more IMO. We play slowly and by the time we get forward other teams have everyone back. With no pace up top its into feet all the time and not penetrating enough.

[Penicuik Hibee]

We are so much better to watch this year and are a different team to what we endured in the butcher era. However, despite dominating many games, we continue to give away soft goals and recently have stopped creating opportunities. Against Rangers and Queen of the South we looked like we could have played all day and not scored.

Not sure what has changed, maybe teams have worked us out that if you stop the full backs getting forward we lack width as Malonga is struggling (and that's being polite) and Cummings is a finisher and needs chances to be created in the box.

lets hope we get back to winning ways on Wednesday but suddenly I am a worried Hibee

[scoopyboy]

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So Saturday was just a one off?

You should know, you stated categorically after one game.

[The Leith Dutch]

Given how utterly dire we were under Butcher you'd have to say we've improved.

We still lack a plan B for when things don't go our way and we're short of work rate at times.
Could do with some depth - I think when Gray is out or Allan has an off day it's a pretty serious drop in form.

There's also the thing that's been tough for us to find for years - a proper winners mentality.

I said to a mate the other night that if someone had said at the start of the season that we'd be W3 L1 against the rangers and D2 L1 against the yams we'd have been thinking we'd win the league. It's the games where we've dropped off against the "lesser" teams. Hate to admit it but the yams have been at the races for every game :(

[lord bunberry]

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So Saturday was just a one off?

Maybe not a one off, but we have turned in some really good performances this season. 3 weeks ago I was very confident we would finish 2nd a get promoted. We have improved from last season imo.

[Leithenhibby]

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It's always jam tomorrow with Hibs. It's not even the club who say it now, the fans say it for them.

I agree with many points you have made, but we can't get away from the fact that our club were starting a fresh with 3 weeks prep. Most, if not all clubs around us had a settled team and set up within their club. We had our guts ripped out so we could move forward.

I want it now, but I also know that's no gonna happen

[Radium]

Team against Hamilton
Williams
Maybury. Nelson. McGivern. Stevenson
Haynes. Craig. Robertson. Stanton.
Heffernan. Cummings.

I think we have improved but like many am frustrated that we have not taken our chances in games.

[Keith_M]

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You can't assess our overall improvement(or lack of) from watching 1 game.

Imagine if the only game you'd seen all season was the day we walked all over Rangers 4-0 at home.

[H18 SFR]

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Imagine if the only game you'd seen all season was the day we walked all over Rangers 4-0 at home.

I'm aware that this might not source much agreement on the forum, at the time, in my mind the results against Rangers were spectacular. However, I'm not so sure now, I think the reality was that they were playing very, very, very poorly. I'm tempted to say that those results contribute to a false economy so to speak.

[Hibrandenburg]

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You should know, you stated categorically after one game.

Aye it confirmed for me what others have posted on here and media reports. That and the games I've watched on telly.

The opposition are ***** and we should be walking all over teams in this league. If we hadn't went down last season we'd have done it this year.

[Billychaotic182]

Oxley better than Williams - I don't think so
Gray better than McGivern - 10000% better
Fontaine better than McPake - yes
Allan better than Thompson - the Thompson of last year yes
McGeouch better than Cairney - yes
Robertson better than Robertson of last year - night and day!
Malonga better than Collins - again yes
El Alagui better than Heff - yes again

So if you ask me yes we have improved and yes sometimes results don't go our way but don't just look at the score look at the game. Sometimes we play well and lose. Doesn't make the players bad. That game against raith we should have put 10 past them. When we stop creating chances then it's time to worry.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Imagine if the only game you'd seen all season was the day we walked all over Rangers 4-0 at home.

Watched it on telly Keith and rangers were dire, they made us look like world beaters. Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed the drubbing we gave them you can't forget just how crap they were.

[JimBHibees]

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When you consider Falkirk, Queen of the South and Raith combined have a smaller playing budget than us then you have to say we are doing extremely poorly.
Given the facilities, the sports scientists, nutritionists and large coaching staff we have compared to these teams and it becomes clear that we are failing badly.
Yes, it's a different style of football to Butchers but it is no more successful.
We did have a decent run of beating the part time teams it that should be a given.
When people say we have improved they generally list inputs like the new coaching set up, scouting network, PR work by Leeann etc. or they parrot lines taken by the club like we are the fittest team in the league. This is a trick used by politicians when they list things they are spending (your) money on. Usually little of it has any benefit to you.
If we measure outputs, actual results on the pitch, then I would say we are about the same level as last season and probably not as good as under Fenlon.
There is still time to turn it around and make it the best season ever but time is running out.

The only part time teams are Cowdenbeath. Alloa and Dumbarton.

To say the football is no more successful is laughable. Night and day style wise and results wise v Butcher.

Has the club ever said we are the fittest team in the league as can remember a presentation at East mains where the manager outlined he couldn't believe how unfit the players were when he arrived and that it wouldn't be until the next preseason where the real benefits could be realised.