The share issue of the late 80s

[Smartie]

A few years before the attempted takeover/merger of Hibs by Wallace Mercer then had been a "share issue" and as far as I remember a lot of fans stumped up a lot of money to get their own share of the club.

I'm too young to remember it at the time but I've read odds and ends about it all over the years since although I've forgotten a lot of the details of it.

What exactly went on? What led up to it and what did it try to achieve? Why did it so nearly end up in absolute disaster?

More to the point is there anything that we can learn from that whole episode to help us as we go through the "fan ownership" process that has now been started?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

"Carnage" discuss... ;)

[lord bunberry]

One of the reasons was that they gave a guy(David Rowlands I think) something like 20% of the shares for nothing, he agreed to sell them to mercer. They also invested some of the money on wine bars in Bath.

[Ozyhibby]

Raised £1.8m if I remember correctly.
Hopefully we can do £2.5m now 30 years on

[Onion]

There was also a rights issue later on at 50p a share. The Hibs Board thought investing is property was a sure fire thing (pubs and restaurants in Avon/Bristol) just before the market collapsed ! All I remember was getting a certificate and priority for big match tickets

[schinkenotto]

The problem with the share issue then involved many factors.

The shares were quoted on the Stock Exchange-a very costly exercise,requiring expensive advisers and stock exchange fees.

David Rowland,who had a major involvement was a well known asset stripper.

David Duff and Jim Gray were Walter Mitty characters probably genuine supporters but hadn't a clue how to run public company.The only good thing they did was to sign Dougie Bell,who was a delight to watch!

As has been said by other posters,the Board at that time were obsessed with property(probably encouraged by Rowland) and borrowed extensively to finance this.Then the property value collapse at that time destroyed the Club's finances.As well as pubs and wine bars,the Club had an upmarket flat in the High Street,for the use of the directors!

The directors said the thinking behind the property investment was that increasing property values and property income would finance the football side,whereas,as things turned out the football side was actually drained by the property side which eventually made the shares virtually valueless,leaving the way open for Mercer and all that followed.I think that the directors were trying to follow the Ken Bates Chelsea model,where Bates invested in hotels and other properties and said they would finance the football side!That didn't work either and Chelsea shares,which were also quoted on the stock exchange lost most of their value and were scooped up by Abramovich.

Like other posters,I bought the first issue of shares and like the mad Hibee I am,I subscribed for the rights issue(the Company was by then called Forth Investments Limited-says it all!).I and others in the 50 Club and the support generally bought more shares,after the Mercer approach to try to resist him.All these shares became totally valueless and the allegedly evil Tom Farmer gave shares in the Club to all those fans who were shareholders in Forth Investments Limited.

The lessons to be learned from that debacle are simple.Don't be a publicly quoted Company or you'll be prey to hostile takeovers and don't get involved with personal glory seekers,people with personal vendettas to further at the expense of the Club,spivs,chancers,former players,who don't have real clue what is going on and people who deface lampposts with illiterate posters!

[keep the faith]

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The problem with the share issue then involved many factors.

The shares were quoted on the Stock Exchange-a very costly exercise,requiring expensive advisers and stock exchange fees.

David Rowland,who had a major involvement was a well known asset stripper.

David Duff and Jim Gray were Walter Mitty characters probably genuine supporters but hadn't a clue how to run public company.The only good thing they did was to sign Dougie Bell,who was a delight to watch!

As has been said by other posters,the Board at that time were obsessed with property(probably encouraged by Rowland) and borrowed extensively to finance this.Then the property value collapse at that time destroyed the Club's finances.As well as pubs and wine bars,the Club had an upmarket flat in the High Street,for the use of the directors!

The directors said the thinking behind the property investment was that increasing property values and property income would finance the football side,whereas,as things turned out the football side was actually drained by the property side which eventually made the shares virtually valueless,leaving the way open for Mercer and all that followed.I think that the directors were trying to follow the Ken Bates Chelsea model,where Bates invested in hotels and other properties and said they would finance the football side!That didn't work either and Chelsea shares,which were also quoted on the stock exchange lost most of their value and were scooped up by Abramovich.

Like other posters,I bought the first issue of shares and like the mad Hibee I am,I subscribed for the rights issue(the Company was by then called Forth Investments Limited-says it all!).I and others in the 50 Club and the support generally bought more shares,after the Mercer approach to try to resist him.All these shares became totally valueless and the allegedly evil Tom Farmer gave shares in the Club to all those fans who were shareholders in Forth Investments Limited.

The lessons to be learned from that debacle are simple.Don't be a publicly quoted Company or you'll be prey to hostile takeovers and don't get involved with personal glory seekers,people with personal vendettas to further at the expense of the Club,spivs,chancers,former players,who don't have real clue what is going on and people who deface lampposts with illiterate posters!

Dougie Bell!! You were clearly a fan of the sideways pass then!!

[GordonHFC]

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The problem with the share issue then involved many factors.

The shares were quoted on the Stock Exchange-a very costly exercise,requiring expensive advisers and stock exchange fees.

David Rowland,who had a major involvement was a well known asset stripper.

David Duff and Jim Gray were Walter Mitty characters probably genuine supporters but hadn't a clue how to run public company.The only good thing they did was to sign Dougie Bell,who was a delight to watch!

As has been said by other posters,the Board at that time were obsessed with property(probably encouraged by Rowland) and borrowed extensively to finance this.Then the property value collapse at that time destroyed the Club's finances.As well as pubs and wine bars,the Club had an upmarket flat in the High Street,for the use of the directors!

The directors said the thinking behind the property investment was that increasing property values and property income would finance the football side,whereas,as things turned out the football side was actually drained by the property side which eventually made the shares virtually valueless,leaving the way open for Mercer and all that followed.I think that the directors were trying to follow the Ken Bates Chelsea model,where Bates invested in hotels and other properties and said they would finance the football side!That didn't work either and Chelsea shares,which were also quoted on the stock exchange lost most of their value and were scooped up by Abramovich.

Like other posters,I bought the first issue of shares and like the mad Hibee I am,I subscribed for the rights issue(the Company was by then called Forth Investments Limited-says it all!).I and others in the 50 Club and the support generally bought more shares,after the Mercer approach to try to resist him.All these shares became totally valueless and the allegedly evil Tom Farmer gave shares in the Club to all those fans who were shareholders in Forth Investments Limited.

The lessons to be learned from that debacle are simple.Don't be a publicly quoted Company or you'll be prey to hostile takeovers and don't get involved with personal glory seekers,people with personal vendettas to further at the expense of the Club,spivs,chancers,former players,who don't have real clue what is going on and people who deface lampposts with illiterate posters!

I bought £200 worth at the time but didn't get them transferred by STF as I lost my certificate.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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I bought £200 worth at the time but didn't get them transferred by STF as I lost my certificate.

You would have been on share register though surely?

[Islington Hibs]

I was taken in then too. I knew Duff a bit and I still have a soft spot for him. I think he did want the best for the club but was totally out of his depth and shafted by Rowland who offloaded his duff pubs on the gullible Duff at the top of the market. Rowland would happily have built houses on the turf. Duff sadly went to prison over mortgage fraud.

Duff was likable but weak and naïve. Ultimately he did not sell out to Mercer, although it would have been to his financial advantage to do so.

This share issue is totally different. As other have said it will not be quoted, the clubs finances are in pretty decent shape, STF will still have a very substantial stake and that sort of underwrites the club and the cash will go to the team.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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Dougie Bell!! You were clearly a fan of the sideways pass then!!

Would have been delirious signing Ray Wilkins then

[Islington Hibs]

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I bought £200 worth at the time but didn't get them transferred by STF as I lost my certificate.

You should contact the club as possession of the certificate is not the only proof of ownership. You should still be registered.

[GordonHFC]

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You would have been on share register though surely?

Didn't pursue it at the time BF. My fault.

[schinkenotto]

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Dougie Bell!! You were clearly a fan of the sideways pass then!!

[Joe's ice cream]

Has anyone got a link to the TV add for the scheme? Seem to remember it had fans sat in the dugout along with the players

[tamig]

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Has anyone got a link to the TV add for the scheme? Seem to remember it had fans sat in the dugout along with the players

John Collins and Stevie Archibald among others iirc.

[Pete]

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Has anyone got a link to the TV add for the scheme? Seem to remember it had fans sat in the dugout along with the players

It's featured in "that was the team that was".

Watched it last night funnily enough.

[McIntosh]

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I was taken in then too. I knew Duff a bit and I still have a soft spot for him. I think he did want the best for the club but was totally out of his depth and shafted by Rowland who offloaded his duff pubs on the gullible Duff at the top of the market. Rowland would happily have built houses on the turf. Duff sadly went to prison over mortgage fraud.

Duff was likable but weak and naïve. Ultimately he did not sell out to Mercer, although it would have been to his financial advantage to do so.

This share issue is totally different. As other have said it will not be quoted, the clubs finances are in pretty decent shape, STF will still have a very substantial stake and that sort of underwrites the club and the cash will go to the team.

What are Duff and Gray both doing know?

[ancient hibee]

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What are Duff and Gray both doing know?

5 years????

[Bostonhibby]

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A few years before the attempted takeover/merger of Hibs by Wallace Mercer then had been a "share issue" and as far as I remember a lot of fans stumped up a lot of money to get their own share of the club.

I'm too young to remember it at the time but I've read odds and ends about it all over the years since although I've forgotten a lot of the details of it.

What exactly went on? What led up to it and what did it try to achieve? Why did it so nearly end up in absolute disaster?

More to the point is there anything that we can learn from that whole episode to help us as we go through the "fan ownership" process that has now been started?

Mercer needed a prick from that era with the same disinterest in football but with a thatcherite eye for the main chance that he had.

Step forward David Rowland (what's he been doing since?) I had shares then and if it wasn't for Rowlands wife being unable to support whatever he was up to then and STF doing what he did then the talkers who want to take the high ground at zero expense to themselves today wouldn't have a club to get indignant about.

HOH back then meant something too.

GGTTH

[CraigHibee]

the team that was

the share advert is about a minute in

[Kato]

The jambos are fond of spreading the myth these days that D Duff (and sometimes they'll include Grey) were jailed for whatever it was the happened at Hibs in the last days of their tenure.

Grey has never been in jail and there wasn't any criminal charges brought against him or Duff for happened at ER.


Duff went to jail a few years later for mortgage fraud concerning properties in Swindon.

Just saying.

[greenginger]

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What are Duff and Gray both doing know?

Duff certainly got jailed, but it was to do with some mortgage scam in England. I met him at the Sheriff Court in Edinburgh, roughly 1997 , we were both witnesses at a trial.

He had been let out of an open prison and traveled up from England himself and was staying at the Sheraton . He was in good spirits but did not want to talk about Hibs at all.

I think Gray went back to running a tarmacadam sub-contracting outfit ..... Boys from the Blackstuff !

[Bostonhibby]

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The jambos are fond of spreading the myth these days that D Duff (and sometimes they'll include Grey) were jailed for whatever it was the happened at Hibs in the last days of their tenure.

Grey has never been in jail and there wasn't any criminal charges brought against him or Duff for happened at ER.


Duff went to jail a few years later for mortgage fraud concerning properties in Swindon.

Just saying.

True every word

[Kato]

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if it wasn't for Rowlands wife being unable to support whatever he was up to

She refused to sell her shares as did Duff. It stopped Mercer, who is now dead, killing Hibs as he needed 76% to shut the club down.

[Billy Whizz]

[QUOTE=CraigHibee;4287287]the team that was

the share advert is about a minute in

[/QUOT

Thanks for the link
After the 1st minute, reminds of of why I hate Hearts so much

[ballengeich]

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Step forward David Rowland (what's he been doing since?) Donating large sums to the Tories.

I had shares then and if it wasn't for Rowlands wife being unable to support whatever he was up to then and STF doing what he did then the talkers who want to take the high ground at zero expense to themselves today wouldn't have a club to get indignant about.

I also bought shares then. While I never had any expectation of making any money from them, I hadn't appreciated quite how dodgy the scheme was. Duff and Gray were minnows who'd strayed into a shark tank.

[Bostonhibby]

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She refused to sell her shares as did Duff. It stopped Mercer, who is now dead, killing Hibs as he needed 76% to shut the club down.

Sorry. Self answering question. Sheila Rowland seemed to form a similar view of her husband at about the same time as most of us did. We are here because of farmers intervention at the right time and her belligerence whatever inspired it . Duff and Gray were out of their depth patsys for what the spivs were plotting.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I remember Duff and Gray standing in the east with rolled up sleeves. A lot of us were taken in by them. Me included.

[CraigHibee]

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the team that was

the share advert is about a minute in

Thanks for the link
After the 1st minute, reminds of of why I hate Hearts so much

no worries bud! i need no reminder why i hate the moral high ground taking bunch of beasts