Have Your Re-Build Expectations & Ambition Been Met by Hibs This Summer?

[Speedway]

Mine haven't...yet.

Off the field, I've seen lots of statements of intent such as:

The hiring of LD

The firing of TB

The appointment of a hungry young manager

The number of events LD has held an open forum on.

The free training session

The free match

But on the field, despite time constraints and no doubt budgetary constraints, I'm not impressed....yet.

Last time, we bought ourselves out of the division and I must admit I secretly thought we were going to do it again and work out how to recover the losses in the future. That seemed a less risky approach than hoping we do enough to get out of this division based on what we've got and work out how to recover the ongoing losses later if we haven't.

We've shed 18 players. We've registered 5 (Combe is wearing #21, that makes him a signing)

The signings are decent enough without being exciting.

Stubbs is either very picky or he's struggled. I think it might be a combo of the two.

We go into the season without a number 3, showing, as the friendlies did; that we don't have a preferred option there.

We've got nothing upfront except Al Alagui who clearly needs service. We've got a guy with big potential to supply him...possibly.

Last time, there was no p*****g about. Sauzee, Latapy, Mixu et al. True, there was no window back then but we bought quality (and Stranraer still gave us a wake up call) even with that approach.

This time I'm more hopeful than confident. I'd love to check out Hibs finances in detail one day. We clearly have enough for a new first team coach and nutritionist whilst paying the previous imposters but not enough to bring in quality (and we know quality players go where the money is in Scotland, regardless of the league)

Have Hibs met your expectations and do you think that pleasant surprises still await us before the window slams shut?

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Mine haven't...yet.

Off the field, I've seen lots of statements of intent such as:

The hiring of LD

The firing of TB

The appointment of a hungry young manager

The number of events LD has held an open forum on.

The free training session

The free match

But on the field, despite time constraints and no doubt budgetary constraints, I'm not impressed....yet.

Last time, we bought ourselves out of the division and I must admit I secretly thought we were going to do it again and work out how to recover the losses in the future. That seemed a less risky approach than hoping we do enough to get out of this division based on what we've got and work out how to recover the ongoing losses later if we haven't.

We've shed 18 players. We've registered 5 (Combe is wearing #21, that makes him a signing)

The signings are decent enough without being exciting.

Stubbs is either very picky or he's struggled. I think it might be a combo of the two.

We go into the season without a number 3, showing, as the friendlies did; that we don't have a preferred option there.

We've got nothing upfront except Al Alagui who clearly needs service. We've got a guy with big potential to supply him...possibly.

Last time, there was no p*****g about. Sauzee, Latapy, Mixu et al. True, there was no window back then but we bought quality (and Stranraer still gave us a wake up call) even with that approach.

This time I'm more hopeful than confident. I'd love to check out Hibs finances in detail one day. We clearly have enough for a new first team coach and nutritionist whilst paying the previous imposters but not enough to bring in quality (and we know quality players go where the money is in Scotland, regardless of the league)

Have Hibs met your expectations and do you think that pleasant surprises still await us before the window slams shut?

I've nothing to add to that. A fair assessment of my thinking right now.

[blackpoolhibs]

Everything thats happened so far just about meets what i expected.

[lord bunberry]

Lets just wait and see how we get on with a new manager playing proper football. Behind the scenes everything looks good it's up to the players on the pitch and the manager in the dugout to produce the goods.

[Stevie Reid]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Mine haven't...yet.

Off the field, I've seen lots of statements of intent such as:

The hiring of LD

The firing of TB

The appointment of a hungry young manager

The number of events LD has held an open forum on.

The free training session

The free match

But on the field, despite time constraints and no doubt budgetary constraints, I'm not impressed....yet.

Last time, we bought ourselves out of the division and I must admit I secretly thought we were going to do it again and work out how to recover the losses in the future. That seemed a less risky approach than hoping we do enough to get out of this division based on what we've got and work out how to recover the ongoing losses later if we haven't.

We've shed 18 players. We've registered 5 (Combe is wearing #21, that makes him a signing)

The signings are decent enough without being exciting.

Stubbs is either very picky or he's struggled. I think it might be a combo of the two.

We go into the season without a number 3, showing, as the friendlies did; that we don't have a preferred option there.

We've got nothing upfront except Al Alagui who clearly needs service. We've got a guy with big potential to supply him...possibly.

Last time, there was no p*****g about. Sauzee, Latapy, Mixu et al. True, there was no window back then but we bought quality (and Stranraer still gave us a wake up call) even with that approach.

This time I'm more hopeful than confident. I'd love to check out Hibs finances in detail one day. We clearly have enough for a new first team coach and nutritionist whilst paying the previous imposters but not enough to bring in quality (and we know quality players go where the money is in Scotland, regardless of the league)

Have Hibs met your expectations and do you think that pleasant surprises still await us before the window slams shut?

To be fair, Mixu was signed in September 1998 after 5 games of the season had passed with McLeish underestimating how physical the league was, Russell was an opportunistic signing in late October, same goes for Franck in late February 1999 (when the league was already practically won) - so although they show that we spent money to get ourselves back up, those signings don't fit in with the assessment of the close season that your post is all about (though I note that you do acknowledge that there was no window back then).

Also worth noting that we spent a shed load of money getting out the last time as we had just managed to get ourselves relegated ahead of the first ever SPL season, with all the crazy Sky money that went with it. There are no such riches to chase this time - and even then, it almost ended us when we did it before.

Other than that, I think your assessment is a reasonable summation of where my feelings are at just now - I am optimistic though. Actually, we differ a bit - I'd have been happy with the signings we've made if we were still in the SPL.

[smurf]

I'm amazed at how few of quality we have signed thus far...

[NAE NOOKIE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Mine haven't...yet.

Off the field, I've seen lots of statements of intent such as:

The hiring of LD

The firing of TB

The appointment of a hungry young manager

The number of events LD has held an open forum on.

The free training session

The free match

But on the field, despite time constraints and no doubt budgetary constraints, I'm not impressed....yet.

Last time, we bought ourselves out of the division and I must admit I secretly thought we were going to do it again and work out how to recover the losses in the future. That seemed a less risky approach than hoping we do enough to get out of this division based on what we've got and work out how to recover the ongoing losses later if we haven't.

We've shed 18 players. We've registered 5 (Combe is wearing #21, that makes him a signing)

The signings are decent enough without being exciting.

Stubbs is either very picky or he's struggled. I think it might be a combo of the two.

We go into the season without a number 3, showing, as the friendlies did; that we don't have a preferred option there.

We've got nothing upfront except Al Alagui who clearly needs service. We've got a guy with big potential to supply him...possibly.

Last time, there was no p*****g about. Sauzee, Latapy, Mixu et al. True, there was no window back then but we bought quality (and Stranraer still gave us a wake up call) even with that approach.

This time I'm more hopeful than confident. I'd love to check out Hibs finances in detail one day. We clearly have enough for a new first team coach and nutritionist whilst paying the previous imposters but not enough to bring in quality (and we know quality players go where the money is in Scotland, regardless of the league)

Have Hibs met your expectations and do you think that pleasant surprises still await us before the window slams shut?

Very decent summing up for me. I am also a wee bit confused at the amount apparently being spent on the back room staff. The work done getting a squad together up till now has been OK but no better than that ...... For me the club still needs to get in a player who can give us a spark on the park and as a side affect encourage ST sales off it.

[PeterboroHibee]

Im happy with the changes at the club in terms of LD, Stubbs and the change in set up of the backroom staff, so there has been progress in that respect.

Recruitment of players hasnt been great through. I think the three permanent signings are good, but we are still way off in terms of having a squad competitive enough to win the league in my opinion. I also find it worrying that it seems like if we get a few players on loan from Everton that will be us done for the summer. We are definitely playing better football, but theres still a bluntness to our game and I think we could find ourselves struggling to score against any half decent opposition. Coupled with there still being no real pace in the team, Id suggest our main problems from last season are still unresolved.

Theres obviously still plenty of time, but the squad still needs a lot of work. The next couple of competitive games may give us more of an indication of where we are, but at the moment Id say we havent really achieved the 'quality over quantity' objective (weve just reduced the quantity...).

[silverhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Very decent summing up for me. I am also a wee bit confused at the amount apparently being spent on the back room staff. The work done getting a squad together up till now has been OK but no better than that ...... For me the club still needs to get in a player who can give us a spark on the park and as a side affect ST sales off it.

I take it wages for back room staff come out of ST money or is that simply for the player budget,

[Steve20]

I thought we would have done more to address the problem that we don't score enough goals or create enough chances.

[Lago]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm amazed at how few of quality we have signed thus far...

Agree, we were told it would be quality over quantity, it's turned out to be neither.

[Keith_M]

None of the above.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Mine haven't...yet.

Off the field, I've seen lots of statements of intent such as:

The hiring of LD

The firing of TB

The appointment of a hungry young manager

The number of events LD has held an open forum on.

The free training session

The free match

But on the field, despite time constraints and no doubt budgetary constraints, I'm not impressed....yet.

Last time, we bought ourselves out of the division and I must admit I secretly thought we were going to do it again and work out how to recover the losses in the future. That seemed a less risky approach than hoping we do enough to get out of this division based on what we've got and work out how to recover the ongoing losses later if we haven't.

We've shed 18 players. We've registered 5 (Combe is wearing #21, that makes him a signing)

The signings are decent enough without being exciting.

Stubbs is either very picky or he's struggled. I think it might be a combo of the two.

We go into the season without a number 3, showing, as the friendlies did; that we don't have a preferred option there.

We've got nothing upfront except Al Alagui who clearly needs service. We've got a guy with big potential to supply him...possibly.

Last time, there was no p*****g about. Sauzee, Latapy, Mixu et al. True, there was no window back then but we bought quality (and Stranraer still gave us a wake up call) even with that approach.

This time I'm more hopeful than confident. I'd love to check out Hibs finances in detail one day. We clearly have enough for a new first team coach and nutritionist whilst paying the previous imposters but not enough to bring in quality (and we know quality players go where the money is in Scotland, regardless of the league)

Have Hibs met your expectations and do you think that pleasant surprises still await us before the window slams shut?

Pretty much sums it up for me.

A bit off topic but I thought I'd mention how important a signing Mixu was at that time - imo possibly the most important signing we may ever have made. I also remember being "underwhelmed" when a thirtysomething was signed from England's lower leagues when all I really remembered about him was that he was a bit chunky and that the Dons fans hated him.

We'd started that season with a whimper and were getting found out. Mixu's spirit, scoring ability and most importantly his ability to hold the ball up and bring the midfield into play turned us from an average team into a decent one. Latapy made us a good team and Sauzee was the icing on the cake but proved his worth to us later.

I still think we need to unearth this year's Mixu.

[GreenCastle]

Good post Speedway.

Still more needed to convince me - I want results and wins = players who can produce the goods under pressure.

I have liked the positive noises coming out from players etc but like many it's 3 points we want each week.

On the playing side I had hoped we would have brought in a few more - also surprised Nelson is still around as judging on last season he struggles to pass the ball under pressure - if we are to keep the ball and pass it - that will be a weak spot. Though his experience and heading quality may be an asset.

We are lacking leadership - creativity and goals - 3 key areas to be successful.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm amazed at how few of quality we have signed thus far...

I'm disappointed at how few we have signed. I know we are not that attractive a proposition just now but I hope we have several more permanent signings in place before we play Livi.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm not too worried about the quality of our signings. Farid has scored goals in this division before, Allan has undoubted quality if we can get his head right, I've only seen Gray once but he looked steady and keen to get forward and Oxley improved as last season went on if Oldham forums are to be believed. A few of the young lads also look lively and Harris and Craig look like different players.

I am disappointed with the quantity we have signed. Put simply we need more. A creative type and/or a pacy winger and another striker at least.

I think we have a manager who will get the best out of what he has and I think we will be half decent to watch which will keep fans onside more than last seasons torturous hoofball. Do we have enough as it stands to challenge for the title? Not for me. For the play offs? Definitely.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not too worried about the quality of our signings. Farid has scored goals in this division before, Allan has undoubted quality if we can get his head tight, I've only seen Gray once but he looked steady and keen to get forward and Oxley improved as last season went on if Oldham forums are to be believed. A few of the young lads also look lively and Harris and Craig look like different players.

I am disappointed with the quantity we have signed. Put simply we need more. A creative type and/or a pacy winger and another striker at least.

I think we have a manager who will get the best out of what he has and I think we will be half decent to watch which will keep fans onside more than last seasons torturous hoofball. Do we have enough as it stands to challenge for the title? Not for me. For the play offs? Definitely.

Agree with that I did expect more players than have currently been signed however to be fair the new manager's primary knowledge base will be the English leagues and there will IMO still be a fair bit of business done in that market in the next 27 days. Personally would much rather wait and get the players the manager most thinks will do best and if that is 2 or 3 loan signings topped with say 1 or 2 experienced players before the end of the month, then fine. I do wish we didnt have both Rangers and Hearts in the next couple of weeks however hope to be pleasantly surprised when the real games start.

[SanFranHibs]

Allowing that LD was a hiring prior to relegation, I think the moves made since then have been made with dual intent, that being 1) to reduce the team wage bill and 2) to package it as a long term vision.

Quality over quantity - This of course would be perfect for any team except we are in danger of having neither. And this year due to severe budgetary constraints the signing of quality players will be far more difficult. We all know, there are no 'qualitiy' players hanging around the dole offices waiting to be signed for a few hundred a week.

Facilitate the path from the junior levels to the first team - Hiring some guy from the SFA is I think just a job for someones friend or a tacit agreement that will facilitate Petrie's eventual move to the SFA. I still find it hard to believe that in the midst of relegation, fan protests, team management being fired, players getting thrown overboard from a sinking ship, cutting wage bills etc that the first siging in LD's tenure is an SFA employee to do what? Facilitate young players through the ranks or from Spartans via the 'Transition Academy'? Just sounds like an extra middle man to me. But then maybe I am just a little paranoid. I do like conspiracies.

Untested manager - Certainly not saying this will turn out to be a bad move as you sign a manager and you can never be sure exactly how it will work out. That said, I think his appointment is linked with point 1, in that I would not be surprised if LD and Petrie had assessed his likeliehood of getting one or two decent loans from Everton as a point in his favour. Yes, conspiracy again.

I think the firing of TB, the subsequent hiring of Stubbs and the so called facilitator and nutritionist (does anyone really care if our players are getting enough fibre?) are just attempts at stabilizing a team that was in free fall last season. There is nothing in the team acquisitions THUS FAR that makes me believe that winning the league is a goal.

If fans really believe that this team will go to Falkirk, Dunfermline, QoS, Morton, Hearts and Rangers and have it their own way they are being overly optimistic and some might say delusional.

Something had to be done and I must repeat I am not saying Stubbs will be a bad appointment, just that it seems to me to be an approach looking 2 or 3 years down the road and not a get out of jail fast card. That said, if all in a flurry we see several new players singing for us who look like quality I will gladly applaud the club for trying but I just don't see where they are coming from. Even if available, quality costs money and we do not look like a spending club.

There are a few well organized teams in the Championship and though it would not take much to compete for this division I just don't think we have progressed enough.



P.S. Oswald did not shoot Kennedy.

[MrRobot]

To sum it up for me:

Changes to backroom staff - Exceded expectations
Changing mentality - Good signs, still to be seen though
Changing squad - Underwhelmed so far purely going by lack of new players
Changing communication - Met expectations

Understand it's harder with a lower league and possibly lowered budget from last year, but there's still time for that to change. 2 permanent signings are needed I feel; a striker and a CB.

[Just_Jimmy]

Just a case of same old Hibs.

Football is played on the park, for too long we have ignored that fact. This summer has been no different.

Get quality players, build a quality team, fans will come back.

NOTHING ELSE WORKS.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

As usual all things quiet out of ER but I have an inkling there will be changes of ownership soon then perhaps for once Hibs fans can have some transparency.

Don't really fancy us with what we have at the moment but there is still time to surprise us.

Until then.....

[offshorehibby]

I started with very low expectations for this season anyway. After seeing a couple of the pre season games i still worry about scoring goals also worry about our CH's hopefully Foster and Hanlon will prove me wrong. El Alagui will be a great player for us and hopefully him and Cummings will gel. Hefferman i'm not so sure on. We still need to bring at least 3 off these 'quality' players.

It might sound daft to some but when AS was appointed i said to a mate that this is going to be a long slog but if AS was to get us back playing some decent football, bring through and improve our youth then i'd give 2 seasons to get back and if he got us back sooner then fine.

SanFranHibs reckons George Craig was only brought in 'cause he was one of the SFA, nonsense, he was part of the new structure hinted about the time LD was announced. Long long before we got into a play off.

I heard George Craig speak at the Hibs club a couple of weeks back and i liked all of what he said. We've been crying out for years that there is something rotten at the club and the whole structure needs changed. This new structure/philosophy is being put in place. I know people are impatient and have been waiting for years but i think this direction we are going will be great for the club but it will take time.

Craig talked about fitnesses, diet, scouting and the way we recruit players in the future.

Excuse my ramblings

[Kato]

Find it difficult to make an assessment without seeing a ball kicked in anger.

Also finding it hard to take anyones assessment seriously as a lot of people on here said (in their opinion) that Butcher was a "proper" manager and actively wanted him before Fenlon left.

If that's the level of judgement I don't understand why more people don't just hold onto their opinion until we see what's on offer on the park.

[SanFranHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I started with very low expectations for this season anyway. After seeing a couple of the pre season games i still worry about scoring goals also worry about our CH's hopefully Foster and Hanlon will prove me wrong. El Alagui will be a great player for us and hopefully him and Cummings will gel. Hefferman i'm not so sure on. We still need to bring at least 3 off these 'quality' players.

It might sound daft to some but when AS was appointed i said to a mate that this is going to be a long slog but if AS was to get us back playing some decent football, bring through and improve our youth then i'd give 2 seasons to get back and if he got us back sooner then fine.

SanFranHibs reckons George Craig was only brought in 'cause he was one of the SFA, nonsense, he was part of the new structure hinted about the time LD was announced. Long long before we got into a play off.

I heard George Craig speak at the Hibs club a couple of weeks back and i liked all of what he said. We've been crying out for years that there is something rotten at the club and the whole structure needs changed. This new structure/philosophy is being put in place. I know people are impatient and have been waiting for years but i think this direction we are going will be great for the club but it will take time.

Craig talked about fitnesses, diet, scouting and the way we recruit players in the future.

Excuse my ramblings

Long long before? Was LD not appointed end of April (29th)? and the playoffs were May. Hardly a long, long time. Also, you liked what Craig said? I have to confess I liked most of what TB said in his interviews. And I don't recall 'hints' of changes from LD. She either said changes will occur or she did not and if she did I would be surprised if many Hibs fans immediately thought, 'a Transitioner from youth to first team' or 'A nutritionist.....that's got to be our top priority'.

I think most fans were thinking, Petrie out, TB out, players out and get some better players in.

I think Just_Jimmy summed it up on this thread and is how most fans feel.

Just a case of same old Hibs.

Football is played on the park, for too long we have ignored that fact. This summer has been no different.

Get quality players, build a quality team, fans will come back.

We all know it is not easy in todays market but good players giving 100%, good coaching staff and a decent product on the pitch is what it is about. Were were the facilitator and nutritionist during Turnbull's time, McCleish's time or Mowbrays time?

Good players, good coaching = good football.

Lot's of dietary fibre, avoiding George Street, hearing inspirational speeches, BAD players = bad football.

And I am only saying what I said in my first post on this thread, we seem to be looking at a longer term view, which may for some be the only approach we should take, but I fear we might become a Championship club for several seasons.

George Craig can make as many nice speeches as he wants and might facilitate players coming through but it is not going to be this season !!!

We need better players. Period.

Remember, showing concern or doubt about what we are doing is not being pessimistic or negative. I feel any money we now have should be spent on the first team.

It is not being hypocritical if I change my tune in a few weeks if I feel we have secured several more 'quality' players but the question was about our expectations at this point of time and perhaps I have been guilty of answering it in the context of this season but as yet, I do not think we have progressed enough in our squad.

Tomorrow night is certainly going to be interesting !!!

[Dashing Bob S]

GOOD

Marginalisation of RP (for now)
Intro of LD
Sacking of TB
Intro of AS (purely on the basis that he ain't PF or TB.)


BAD

Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.


INDIFFERENT

Squad changes - not hugely exciting but probably okay at Championship level. We'll see.

[SetonClapper]

Despite my name, have huge concerns for the season ahead. It's virtually the same team that got us relegated. We may no longer be adopting the playground kick and rush tactics, but (admittedly in the only pre season game I have seen) we still have little pace and no goal threat. Its hardly the "sweeping changes" I was hoping for. I was expecting a much greater turnaround in personnel.

[SanFranHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Find it difficult to make an assessment without seeing a ball kicked in anger.

Also finding it hard to take anyones assessment seriously as a lot of people on here said (in their opinion) that Butcher was a "proper" manager and actively wanted him before Fenlon left.

If that's the level of judgement I don't understand why more people don't just hold onto their opinion until we see what's on offer on the park.

It is because in life some people are not afraid to be proved wrong!

So when will you make your judgment? At half time tomorrow night? Full time? End of August? The January window transfer?

As an example, what is wrong with judging Boyd and Miller a better forward line than ours? Now I am not saying it will definitely prove to be so but I think as fans we are entitled to make such 'judgements'. Some might judge that it is not a better forward line and they are perfectly entitled to do so.

I am not scared to be proved wrong. I think we need to do more if we want to compete for the title. If I am wrong....wonderful!

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

..........

P.S. Oswald did not shoot Kennedy.

Any fan of Red Dwarf KNOWS who shot JFK

[SanFranHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Any fan of Red Dwarf KNOWS who shot JFK

Exactly....does it qualify as a suicide? Was quite a good idea, that episode. (Even Kryten's 'You bet your ass' moments).

[SanFranHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

GOOD

Marginalisation of RP (for now)
Intro of LD
Sacking of TB
Intro of AS (purely on the basis that he ain't PF or TB.)


BAD

Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.
Continuing involvement with RP at the club.


INDIFFERENT

Squad changes - not hugely exciting but probably okay at Championship level. We'll see.

Come on DBS....stop falling asleep on your keyboard!

But I do find RP's involvement interesting. Does LD defer to him? Run everything by him? Is he still being paid? What now is his remit? Indeed, I was speaking to my friend here in Paris and we got onto Hibs of course and he asked 'Is Petrie still there?' Easy one to answer but he then asked 'What is he now doing?'. Not so easy. Apart from improving your copying and pasting!