(NHC) Interesting article on Belgium - could Scotland do the same?

[Zorro]

Came across this article on the BBC site and wondered if it could be mirrored in Scottish football? Some things may already be being implemented (I have no knowledge of youth football techniques in Scotland!) but on the whole it seemed they had to start from scratch and change people's mindsets to allow player development rather than winning at the early stages.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27827569

[Haymaker]

Yes we could.

Will we? Not likely.

[Brightside]

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Came across this article on the BBC site and wondered if it could be mirrored in Scottish football? Some things may already be being implemented (I have no knowledge of youth football techniques in Scotland!) but on the whole it seemed they had to start from scratch and change people's mindsets to allow player development rather than winning at the early stages.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27827569

SFA following a very similar blueprint now

[Twa Cairpets]

The Scottish FA get a hard time on a lot of stuff, much of it deserved, but what they are seeking to achieve in grassroots is almost exclusively good, and mirrors very closely what the Belgians did.

The key thing for me is the move away from scoreboard coaching to development. There are some teams and coaches who have a sole focus on filling their cabinets with u13 upwards trophies - look at their teams and they'll tend to be be bigger physically and will tend to dump a player if someone slightly better comes along. Not all teams, as success doesn't necessarily equate to a win-at-all-costs mentality, and there are some excellent coaches who succeed because they invest time and good coaching in their players. But there is a mindset shift needed, and having been involved as a ref and coach for 20 years or so there is no doubt in mind my mind that the behaviours and attitudes are getting better at this level, especially over the last 5-10 years with the introduction of Quality Mark for clubs driving coaching standards and behaviour up, the introduction of Positive Coaching Scotland as a way of working, scrapping 11-a-side primary school football leagues, the intro of development 4s and 7's up to u12 and lots of other activity that is largely evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

There are still dinosaurs, and I fully expect someone to say in this thread "thats cr@p, we need to teach a winning mentality", and if that's what you come out with, then you've missed the point entirely.

[Zorro]

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SFA following a very similar blueprint now

That's really positive to know, hopefully will see a sea change in the way youth footballers develop and with an emphasis on skills.

[Ozyhibby]

As others have said above, it's already happening. And now it looks like Hibs have decided to get with the programme now as well.

[Zorro]

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The Scottish FA get a hard time on a lot of stuff, much of it deserved, but what they are seeking to achieve in grassroots is almost exclusively good, and mirrors very closely what the Belgians did.

The key thing for me is the move away from scoreboard coaching to development. There are some teams and coaches who have a sole focus on filling their cabinets with u13 upwards trophies - look at their teams and they'll tend to be be bigger physically and will tend to dump a player if someone slightly better comes along. Not all teams, as success doesn't necessarily equate to a win-at-all-costs mentality, and there are some excellent coaches who succeed because they invest time and good coaching in their players. But there is a mindset shift needed, and having been involved as a ref and coach for 20 years or so there is no doubt in mind my mind that the behaviours and attitudes are getting better at this level, especially over the last 5-10 years with the introduction of Quality Mark for clubs driving coaching standards and behaviour up, the introduction of Positive Coaching Scotland as a way of working, scrapping 11-a-side primary school football leagues, the intro of development 4s and 7's up to u12 and lots of other activity that is largely evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

There are still dinosaurs, and I fully expect someone to say in this thread "thats cr@p, we need to teach a winning mentality", and if that's what you come out with, then you've missed the point entirely.

Thanks for that info Twa Cairpets, as I admitted my experience is nil in this area, so am glad to hear attitudes are more focussing on skills and development, and it sounds very positive with work still to be done changing the thinking behind youth development. Hopefully the pay off will be seen in the coming years and I hope clubs like Hibs will be part of (and benefit from) these changes.

[SmashinGlass]

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The Scottish FA get a hard time on a lot of stuff, much of it deserved, but what they are seeking to achieve in grassroots is almost exclusively good, and mirrors very closely what the Belgians did.

The key thing for me is the move away from scoreboard coaching to development. There are some teams and coaches who have a sole focus on filling their cabinets with u13 upwards trophies - look at their teams and they'll tend to be be bigger physically and will tend to dump a player if someone slightly better comes along. Not all teams, as success doesn't necessarily equate to a win-at-all-costs mentality, and there are some excellent coaches who succeed because they invest time and good coaching in their players. But there is a mindset shift needed, and having been involved as a ref and coach for 20 years or so there is no doubt in mind my mind that the behaviours and attitudes are getting better at this level, especially over the last 5-10 years with the introduction of Quality Mark for clubs driving coaching standards and behaviour up, the introduction of Positive Coaching Scotland as a way of working, scrapping 11-a-side primary school football leagues, the intro of development 4s and 7's up to u12 and lots of other activity that is largely evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

There are still dinosaurs, and I fully expect someone to say in this thread "thats cr@p, we need to teach a winning mentality", and if that's what you come out with, then you've missed the point entirely.

That's very insightful. I also coach a team of kids (2004 age group) and our emphasis is firmly on the game, not on winning. I've only got around 18 months experience, so nowhere near as much as you, but most clubs now appear to be coaching in the manner set down by the sfa etc. It pains me though, that the dinosaurs remain and, unfortunately, some of the younger coaches I have come across fall into this category. Some teams I have come across have also tended to favour long ball tactics (which at 7 a side is horrible to watch). Thankfully though, whilst these historic remnants remain, the majority of the teams I come across do things properly. Hopefully this bears fruit in years to come

[Phil D. Rolls]

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That's very insightful. I also coach a team of kids (2004 age group) and our emphasis is firmly on the game, not on winning. I've only got around 18 months experience, so nowhere near as much as you, but most clubs now appear to be coaching in the manner set down by the sfa etc. It pains me though, that the dinosaurs remain and, unfortunately, some of the younger coaches I have come across fall into this category. Some teams I have come across have also tended to favour long ball tactics (which at 7 a side is horrible to watch). Thankfully though, whilst these historic remnants remain, the majority of the teams I come across do things properly. Hopefully this bears fruit in years to come

Sorry, I don't know whether you've played pro. To me, it shouldn't matter. However, I'm interested how coaches would cope with the son of a famous player in their squad. Would pressure come to bear on them to play the kid?

Basically, I'm asking how you would deal with pushy parents.

[SmashinGlass]

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Sorry, I don't know whether you've played pro. To me, it shouldn't matter. However, I'm interested how coaches would cope with the son of a famous player in their squad. Would pressure come to bear on them to play the kid?

Basically, I'm asking how you would deal with pushy parents.

Our rule at the club (we have 9 coaches covering 4 teams) is that every kid gets equal game time. All of the 9 coaches are united in ensuring that thus happens. In fact, it's something that the syfa require you to sign up to, although we have had one or two occasions where pushy parents have been asked to leave due to their attitudes. That obviously doesn't benefit the child involved, but equally we can't have kids being exposed to childish behaviour from adults whom they are supposed to take guidance from.

Obviously I can't speak for other clubs, but we like to foster a spirit if equality and togetherness. I don't yet know how this will evolve when we progress to playing more competitively at 11 a side when the kids reach 12-13. I haven't played professionally at all, in answer to your question

[Twa Cairpets]

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That's very insightful. I also coach a team of kids (2004 age group) and our emphasis is firmly on the game, not on winning. I've only got around 18 months experience, so nowhere near as much as you, but most clubs now appear to be coaching in the manner set down by the sfa etc. It pains me though, that the dinosaurs remain and, unfortunately, some of the younger coaches I have come across fall into this category. Some teams I have come across have also tended to favour long ball tactics (which at 7 a side is horrible to watch). Thankfully though, whilst these historic remnants remain, the majority of the teams I come across do things properly. Hopefully this bears fruit in years to come

What often happens is that teams with a prolific scorer at, say, u10s because they are big/fast set themselves up every game to feed that person the ball - hence the long ball. The players then either (a) leaves to "better"/pro-youth team, or (b) other players catch up physically and the player suddenly cant carry a team. I've seen this time and again at clubs who are successful at 7's then cant cope at 11's because the other players have been by-passed in development, the coaches cant adapt and they fold/merge/implode.

I'm glad your experience is a generally good, and that you're doing it in what I firmly believe to be the right way. I can almost guarantee that what you get out of being involved as a coach will be better as a result.

[Twa Cairpets]

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Sorry, I don't know whether you've played pro. To me, it shouldn't matter. However, I'm interested how coaches would cope with the son of a famous player in their squad. Would pressure come to bear on them to play the kid?

Basically, I'm asking how you would deal with pushy parents.

Actually, I've found without exception that players who are kids of ex professional players aren't pushed. I'm sure there are some who are, but I've come across a fair few and they've always been (at pitch side anyway) quiet and supportive of their kids.

99.9% of parents are fine. The ones who are convinced their kid is the next Messi are a total pain - I kid you not when I say I have been sent a football CV for a 10-year-old who wanted to join my team. The kid was great for a season before the Dad decided to "progress their career" elsewhere after a season. 11-years old, and on their fourth club. Hmmm.

You deal with them for the most part by setting out expectations of behaviour, your footballing ethic and then sticking to it. Doesn't always stop them being roasters, trumpets or heid-the-ba's, but does give a line that cant be crossed.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Our rule at the club (we have 9 coaches covering 4 teams) is that every kid gets equal game time. All of the 9 coaches are united in ensuring that thus happens. In fact, it's something that the syfa require you to sign up to, although we have had one or two occasions where pushy parents have been asked to leave due to their attitudes. That obviously doesn't benefit the child involved, but equally we can't have kids being exposed to childish behaviour from adults whom they are supposed to take guidance from.

Obviously I can't speak for other clubs, but we like to foster a spirit if equality and togetherness. I don't yet know how this will evolve when we progress to playing more competitively at 11 a side when the kids reach 12-13. I haven't played professionally at all, in answer to your question

Thanks, I was just curious. I have to say I came across plenty of it when mine were young, and it was off putting. Good stuff if kids get to enjoy the game more.

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Actually, I've found without exception that players who are kids of ex professional players aren't pushed. I'm sure there are some who are, but I've come across a fair few and they've always been (at pitch side anyway) quiet and supportive of their kids.

99.9% of parents are fine. The ones who are convinced their kid is the next Messi are a total pain - I kid you not when I say I have been sent a football CV for a 10-year-old who wanted to join my team. The kid was great for a season before the Dad decided to "progress their career" elsewhere after a season. 11-years old, and on their fourth club. Hmmm.

You deal with them for the most part by setting out expectations of behaviour, your footballing ethic and then sticking to it. Doesn't always stop them being roasters, trumpets or heid-the-ba's, but does give a line that cant be crossed.

Carrying on from what I said above, I think it is very sad to see parents standing at opposite sides f the pitch at games.

[Twa Cairpets]

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Carrying on from what I said above, I think it is very sad to see parents standing at opposite sides f the pitch at games.

This should only be the case at u13+ boys, and I think will change over the next couple of years. 7s should have coaches and players at one side, and is a requirement for all ages in girls football.