I think he talks a lot of truth but it wont be popular because it's him

[NW]

I think a lot of what Rowan Vine says is spot on, but no doubt it will be dismissed because he didnt do it for us.
He doent have a go at Hibs as such imo but more the clown that is Butcher



http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...lins-1-3434024
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...s-up-1-3434018
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...vine-1-3433991

[allezsauzee]

I think he makes some valid points. I don't really get why we binned him and replaced him with Haynes. Maybe TB didn't like his beard.

[--------]

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I think a lot of what Rowan Vine says is spot on, but no doubt it will be dismissed because he didnt do it for us.
He doent have a go at Hibs as such imo but more the clown that is Butcher

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...lins-1-3434024
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...s-up-1-3434018
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...vine-1-3433991

I would agree - there's a great deal of sense in those three articles.

Especially about the impatience and height of expectation loaded onto anyone who comes to the club (watch your neck, Leeann).

And I also agree that if Pat Fenlon had stayed on, we would almost certainly not have been relegated.

[Hibbyradge]

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. I don't really get why we binned him

He was humpty.

[allezsauzee]

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He was humpty.

My point was that we replaced him with Haynes who is much worse

[--------]

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He was humpty.

But so's the guy Butcher replaced him with, which is the point the OP's making.

[Speedway]

Danny Haynes isn't even an acceptable replacement for Danny Haynes.

[Hibbyradge]

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My point was that we replaced him with Haynes who is much worse

Sorry, my mistook!

[FranckSuzy]

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Danny Haynes isn't even an acceptable replacement for Danny Haynes.

[Elephant Stone]

And I believe that the manager should have said to James at the end of the season, ‘right, I’m going to put my faith in you in the Championship and you’re going to score me 30 goals.’ Instead he went the other way.”

Agreed.

[Turkish Green]

Methinks that while Fenlon had his jovial Irish ways about him that endeared him to the players, Butcher comes across as an old school sergeant-major type who doesn't fraternize with the players. Once Butcher takes a dislike to a player (eg KT) then they are ostracised. I suspect that if Butcher could totally clear out the 1st team, apart from a few of the youngsters, he would do it. In fact I believe he has almost done it.

I agree that Vine was probably better (not saying much) than his replacement Haynes.

[erin go bragh]

How many goals did Vine score for us ?
Not much to choose between Vine and Haynes tbh . Both were utter tom kite .

Ggtth

[S4uzee]

" I believe James is a good centre-forward who, if you give him six chances in a game, will always score one or two."

That is brilliant. Very rarely do strikers get 6 chances in a game and he'd only score 1, yip good centre-forward. He missed numerous sitters

[Lee Marvin]

Another piece of evidence to the case that butcher is incapable and should GTF.

Besides the Leanne dempster email thread, literally everything I read about hibs upsets me just now

[JustSimplyHibs]

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I think he makes some valid points. I don't really get why we binned him and replaced him with Haynes. Maybe TB didn't like his beard.

Because he was useless, never offered himself for a pass, didnae back track, couldnae pass to his own team, half hearted attempts at trying to win the ball back, didnae watch the offside line.

Very poor player who was a panic buy before Malmo and still has a grudge against Hibs... Note to Vine. Maybe if you pulled yer finger oot yer backside, stopped talking paper trash and worked harder during training and games you would still be here - but you never.

As for Haynes,

[jacomo]

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Methinks that while Fenlon had his jovial Irish ways about him that endeared him to the players, Butcher comes across as an old school sergeant-major type who doesn't fraternize with the players. Once Butcher takes a dislike to a player (eg KT) then they are ostracised. I suspect that if Butcher could totally clear out the 1st team, apart from a few of the youngsters, he would do it. In fact I believe he has almost done it.

I agree that Vine was probably better (not saying much) than his replacement Haynes.

Not bothered about managers fraternizing with the players, but it now seems the case that Butcher did not offer an equal opportunity to all. Some players clearly felt they weren't given any chance under him.

Sick of it, to be honest. Can we not find a manager who is a decent coach and inspiring leader?

[patlowe]

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" I believe James is a good centre-forward who, if you give him six chances in a game, will always score one or two."

That is brilliant. Very rarely do strikers get 6 chances in a game and he'd only score 1, yip good centre-forward. He missed numerous sitters

If only he'd been teed up for four or five more sitters in each derby he would have been a hero!

I have nothing whatsoever against Collins but it's abundantly clear that he is not a top class striker, although it is a shame that he got abuse and his confidence took a bit of a battering. Best for both parties that he left IMO.

[Dashing Bob S]

I agree with every word Vine says. It's a pity he talks a better game than he plays, but he's pretty much spot on.

[Hibbyradge]

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" I believe James is a good centre-forward who, if you give him six chances in a game, will always score one or two."

That is brilliant. Very rarely do strikers get 6 chances in a game and he'd only score 1, yip good centre-forward. He missed numerous sitters

I mentioned this to my mate last night.

Graeme Souness once slagged Emile Heskey off saying that he "needed 5 chances to score one goal".

Heskey won 62 caps for England and played at the highest level in the EPL.

Funny innit...

[Paloschi]

Talks the talk alright.

Unfortunately he could not do that on the pitch. All doesn't matter now and I'm sick of players going after Butcher. You were mince under Fenlon you plum.

[Turkish Green]

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" I believe James is a good centre-forward who, if you give him six chances in a game, will always score one or two."

That is brilliant. Very rarely do strikers get 6 chances in a game and he'd only score 1, yip good centre-forward. He missed numerous sitters

I can recall a glaring one.



PETRIE OUT

[SlickShoes]

The expectations that were placed on vine were to not be utterly incapable of playing anything resembling professional football.

He was garbage.

I am sure if Terry had befriended all the players and patted them on the bum Vine would have scored multiple goals and Collins would be getting picked for England.

[Kato]

EEN giving him three pages to get tore in about Hibs? Why his is opinion so valuable?

...as to this....


There’s a pressure of playing for Hibs, with the media and the spectator-based expectancy.


....this spectator expects someone on a footbal pitch who is getting paid to be there to be able to trap a ball and pass it a few yards or so. This guy failed in even the basic skills when he was here, some neck criticising anyone. He and Collins let Fenlon down badly, neither kicked a ball for him, but I suppose that's because Hibs used to have better players and fans aren't used to fools collapsing around the park like a broken clotheshorse any time the ball comes near them. What a dick.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Maybe not the easiest to hear coming from him but largely true.

Just another instance where you must look at the manager. Dropping players in and out of the team, not willing to change a playing style that is not working, tactics which isolate the striker. Awful man-management.

James had plenty of opportunities. But the manager hasn't helped.

[blindsummit]

Vine did say some interesting things there but he also inadvertantly highlighted a glaring problem we have had for years.

he talked about how the "expectations" at the club were hard for players to handle and that he felt players weren't given enough time.

Well I disagree. What that says to me that we have had a lot of soft, whiny bottlers as players, Vine included.

As the old saying goes, if you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen! Of course there are expectations at Hibs, as there are at other top clubs the world over. If you didn't know that and can't handle that then what the hell are you signing for! Go play for some amateur club for fun then.

Vine, Collins et al had PLENTY of time to get up to speed, but were too lazy and cowardly to do it.

It's just another way of blaming the fans "boo hoo those nasty fans ecpected us to play well after only half a season together, I demand I'm given three seasons the I MIGHT score a goal...".

If I came out with that self serving drivel at work my boss and colleagues would be amused, and not in a good way.

We need comitted and tough players who can have high expectations of THEMSELVES and a desire to win and excel.

Any player who can't handle that, then DON'T SIGN FOR HIBS!

[Bostonhibby]

Surprised we haven't got him on board to help shape the future of the club

Hows this visionary been doing at Morton?

[Johnny_Leith]

A striker that needs 6 chances to score is not what I would describe as "a good centre forward".

Collins admitting via Vine that he wanted out as soon as we were relegated shows his lack of desire and that he is weak, mentally. I always hoped it came off for Collins but now I am glad he's gone having read that article (albeit, it is not from Collins directly, but if it's true then we're better with fresh blood)

I totally and utterly agree with Vine's comments about Butcher however. How he is still here clearly must be down to finances rather than a footballing decision.

[jacomo]

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A striker that needs 6 chances to score is not what I would describe as "a good centre forward".

Collins admitting via Vine that he wanted out as soon as we were relegated shows his lack of desire and that he is weak, mentally. I always hoped it came off for Collins but now I am glad he's gone having read that article (albeit, it is not from Collins directly, but if it's true then we're better with fresh blood)

I totally and utterly agree with Vine's comments about Butcher however. How he is still here clearly must be down to finances rather than a footballing decision.

Wow, that's harsh.

Look at it from his point of view - he's not a Hibs fan, is hired by one boss who's sacked after a few months and replaced by someone who doesn't rate him. He struggles massively and the fans don't take to him. The new boss still doesn't like him and tells him so. Club gets relegated and he's held partially to blame. He gets a chance to return to a club where he has happy memories. Hibs agree.

What would you do?

I'm annoyed it didn't work out for him - just another two or three goals would have spared us from relegation. But let's leave it at that.

[Johnny_Leith]

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Wow, that's harsh.

Look at it from his point of view - he's not a Hibs fan, is hired by one boss who's sacked after a few months and replaced by someone who doesn't rate him. He struggles massively and the fans don't take to him. The new boss still doesn't like him and tells him so. Club gets relegated and he's held partially to blame. He gets a chance to return to a club where he has happy memories. Hibs agree.

What would you do?

I'm annoyed it didn't work out for him - just another two or three goals would have spared us from relegation. But let's leave it at that.

And that's fair enough that he has made the move, I understand why. However if he had a bit of belief in himself, a determination to prove Butcher and co wrong and make himself number 1 striker at the club with a siege mentality then maybe it would have turned out differently.

Where would you rather play? potentially the top league with the chance of European Football and challenging in cups infront of 20,000(occasionally!) , or the 4th tier of English football infront of 10k max. No doubt finances will play a part in his decision but I have no idea what he was earning up here so can't comment on that.

Anyway, he's away now. Onwards and upwards.

[Sir David Gray]

I agree with some of the things he says in those articles but I certainly don't have any issue with Collins being allowed to leave.

Maybe Vine should consider being a pundit. He certainly seems to be better at that than he is at the day job.