Butcher is staying based on what ?

[Sammy7nil]

Nothing BUTCHER has done since arriving at Hibs justifies the decision to give him more time.
The fact he remains will split the support and cAnnot be in the interests of the club, so why has Petrie made this decision what is his reasoning?

Does he like HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFBALL?

FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB TB SHOULD RESIGN.

[Pretty Boy]

Butcher talks a great game. He certainly blinded a lot of the support, including myself, to his many shortcomings with his chat.

Maybe the gift of the gab is still working on Rod.

[MWHIBBIES]

We can't afford to sack him.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We can't afford to sack him.

This can be the only possible explanation for his continuing. Nobody, and I mean nobody, could have performed worse since his arrival. Everything has been horrific: selection, tactics, playing style, results. There is no positive reason that I can see to keep him.

[Makaveli]

Based on him having no shame. Fenlon went after the protests etc and said it wasn't fair on anyone to stay. Butcher's idiocy is costing honest people their jobs yet he's still here.

[Baader]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Butcher talks a great game. He certainly blinded a lot of the support, including myself, to his many shortcomings with his chat.

Maybe the gift of the gab is still working on Rod.

Remember Duffy doing the same when he came in - was all about what we were going to do. Butchers tenure has reminded me of this.

He knows he isn't up to it and is responsible for this nightmare. He needs to walk

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Perhaps Rod told him he would keep his job whatever because even he didn't think we would go down.

[SanFranHibs]

Still hope he can show some managerial and player finding skill this summer.

But the fact is that when he took over 'Fenlons duds' as someone called them on the Sky Sports thread, those duds were in 7th with still some hope of catching St. Johnstone for 6th and certainly a long way clear of the relegation battle.

If he keeps Nelson and a couple of others then I will seriously doubt his judgement and Hibs chance of being anywhere near the promotion race next season.

However, can we seriously sack another manager so soon? I don't think we will and if he does not walk he will be our manager next season so we had better hope they come up with a few gems for next season or we are down there for a long time.

What a depressing time.

[Saorsa]

Based on Butcher having nae shame and Petrie being a ****

[The Leith Dutch]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Still hope he can show some managerial and player finding skill this summer.

But the fact is that when he took over 'Fenlons duds' as someone called them on the Sky Sports thread, those duds were in 7th with still some hope of catching St. Johnstone for 6th and certainly a long way clear of the relegation battle.

If he keeps Nelson and a couple of others then I will seriously doubt his judgement and Hibs chance of being anywhere near the promotion race next season.

However, can we seriously sack another manager so soon? I don't think we will and if he does not walk he will be our manager next season so we had better hope they come up with a few gems for next season or we are down there for a long time.

What a depressing time.

My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.

[Ronniekirk]

Based on purely the fact we can't afford to pay the team off them off.Petrie will say he brought ICT straight back up so he has experience to do that job with his own players being brought in Time will tell if that's right or not .
He also liked T B because he hardly spent money on Transfers at ICT so that will also be a major factor.

[emerald green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We can't afford to sack him.

We can't afford not to.

[Stevie Reid]

Petrie. Yesterday's statement was as misguided as the Calderwood one, and we know how that turned out. Too much of the support is lost for Butcher not to go, whatever the cost - if we allow him to rebuild and he loses the first two games of next season, he will be out; we then face another manager coming in dealing with a group of players he hasn't assembled.

Whatever the cost, get shot of the three of them. The fact that they haven't the decency to walk (Petrie included) tells you everything about the type of character they are.

[Pretty Boy]

We needed one win against the other 5 teams in the league almost as bad as us. He failed.

In fact he had 4 months to get is that win that would have kept us up. He failed.

We got a 2nd chance to beat a Championship team over 2 legs. He failed.

We were drawn at home in the Scottish Cup to a mid table Championship team who had failed to score this calendar year. We lost 2-3. He failed.

Hopefully his last act as manager is telling the players they aren't wanted before clearing his own desk.

[Hibercelona]

He needs time to build his own team.

So that he can then turn those players against him as well, continue to play terrible formations and tactics and continue to make baffling substitutions at baffling times.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We needed one win against the other 5 teams in the league almost as bad as us. He failed.

In fact he had 4 months to get is that win that would have kept us up. He failed.

We got a 2nd chance to beat a Championship team over 2 legs. He failed.

We were drawn at home in the Scottish Cup to a mid table Championship team who had failed to score this calendar year. We lost 2-3. He failed.

Hopefully his last act as manager is telling the players they aren't wanted before clearing his own desk.

Agree especially about the bottom games, a couple of draws would probably have kept us up but we blew it massively. His record is atrocious and you can only use the players excuse so many times, he picked the team and constantly had 4 or 5 changes every game rather than stick with a settled group.

St Mirren should have been about not losing at all costs, we lost a goal in 12 seconds, absolutely laughable.

The style of football yesterday was worse than pub league against an average team who could pass the ball but had that rock Martin Canning at the back, dear oh dear. Heffernan ran away from their other centre back yet we sit back and let them play. Only Hibs could lose a 2 goal lead at home in front of a massive support.

I think he should go now and get a progressive coach to get us playing an attractive style of football.

[Stax]

I genuinely saw a couple of positives when he first came in. Looking back most of it was to do with a minimal initial 'bounce' when he came in. That was more to with positive media p.r Than any actual improvements. I don't think anyone could honestly see how bad things were going to get and how quickly that deterioration would be. I've not seen any glimmer from butcher of what he's trying to achieve since he's been here. The fact he is now in charge of whatever budget we have genuinely worries me. I fear the football we've witnessed this season will appear silky compared to what he'll attempt next season. I know we can't go on continually sacking managers but I've seen nothing in butcher to convince me to put any faith in him. I honestly don't know what the answer is, unfortunately the management of our club don't seem to either.

[Makaveli]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.

It's understandably being lost in the shuffle but that's probably the most sensible posts I've seen today.

(1) It really is hard to see why he persists in the long balls when all they do is surrender possession. Talk about playing to your weaknesses.

(2) The OTJ for Heffernan switch reminded me of Williamson taking Mixu off with ten minutes to go against Hearts only for it to free up McKenna who then scored.

(3) I fully agree about Harris and Cairney.

[Hiber-nation]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Petrie. Yesterday's statement was as misguided as the Calderwood one, and we know how that turned out. Too much of the support is lost for Butcher not to go, whatever the cost - if we allow him to rebuild and he loses the first two games of next season, he will be out; we then face another manager coming in dealing with a group of players he hasn't assembled.

Whatever the cost, get shot of the three of them. The fact that they haven't the decency to walk (Petrie included) tells you everything about the type of character they are.

Spot on. How anyone could trust Butcher to build a squad to get promoted and attract fans to ER is beyond me. The man has failed spectacularly.

[emerald green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We needed one win against the other 5 teams in the league almost as bad as us. He failed.

In fact he had 4 months to get is that win that would have kept us up. He failed.

We got a 2nd chance to beat a Championship team over 2 legs. He failed.

We were drawn at home in the Scottish Cup to a mid table Championship team who had failed to score this calendar year. We lost 2-3. He failed.

Hopefully his last act as manager is telling the players they aren't wanted before clearing his own desk.

I can't for the life of me understand why any Hibs supporter can or would argue for Butcher & Malpas staying, especially after yesterday. In addition to the stats quoted above, his football style and philosophy is pre-historic.

Hamilton Accies - average attendance circa 2,000 - passed Hibs off the park yesterday. Butcher talks a good game. He's a bull****ter though and it appears he is staying.

[euro Hibby]

I think the club will keep the management team so they are lucky guys. They hopefully have players lined up and a management change at this time would mean starting again so we are stuck with what we have got !

In most other leagues they would have been fired after a 3 month run will so little football

[Lang Toun Hibs]

With the current clear out underway, there is a real danger for me if he stays. Not only has his football been awful, but if he gets the opportunity to fill the team with his 'style' of player then we're in big trouble if/when the wheels come off again. His position is untenable in my view and allowing him anywhere near the recruitment of a new team is a major cause for concern.

[nickwhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.

My thoughts exactly. I don't trust him to be able to build and manage a new, successful team - he has to go!

[Golden Bear]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I can't for the life of me understand why any Hibs supporter can or would argue for Butcher & Malpas staying, especially after yesterday. In addition to the stats quoted above, his football style and philosophy is pre-historic.

Hamilton Accies - average attendance circa 2,000 - passed Hibs off the park yesterday. Butcher talks a good game. He's a bull****ter though and it appears he is staying.

I was very much in the Butcher camp when he first arrived but how wrong could I be.

Events this morning suggest that TB will still be here next season (if he wants to be that is) and it is a bit alarming that Pat Stanton has come out and publicly backed the guy.

[h185forever]

the only thing that could embarrass the club more is a resurrected story of ....Hibs dump yet another manager....the BBC would just love that

[Keith_M]

The people questioning the decision to keep Butcher obviously know very little about how management works in the real world. Management decisions are mostly taken with the interests of the decision maker at heart, not the company, shareholders or customer.

Petrie knows he's failed spectacularly in the last few years, both in appointing managers and backing them to get their pick of players. He pushed the boat out with the Butcher management team, even willing to pay compensation (against his own instincts) because he knew how much he'd failed and had to do something to protect his position.

We have now had an even more disastrous season as a result, leading to the view from a lot of the fans that the current management team should go. This is the part where they don't get how management works. Petrie put himself on the line with this appointment so he really can't be seen to be admitting yet another (this time expensive) failure. Admitting failure may be the right thing to do, good for all concerned outside of Petrie himself, but that is not how things work in the real world.

I've seen this kind of self-preservation, never admit a mistake type of management at loads of companies in a number of different countries, so it really doesn't surprise me one bit that the archetypal 'manager' has made the archetypal 'business decision'.

[Killiehibbie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The people questioning the decision to keep Butcher obviously know very little about how management works in the real world. Management decisions are mostly taken with the interests of the decision maker at heart, not the company, shareholders or customer.

Petrie knows he's failed spectacularly in the last few years, both in appointing managers and backing them to get their pick of players. He pushed the boat out with the Butcher management team, even willing to pay compensation (against his own instincts) because he knew how much he'd failed and had to do something to protect his position.

We have now had an even more disastrous season as a result, leading to the view from a lot of the fans that the current management team should go. This is the part where they don't get how management works. Petrie put himself on the line with this appointment so he really can't be seen to be admitting yet another (this time expensive) failure. Admitting failure may be the right thing to do, good for all concerned outside of Petrie himself, but that is not how things work in the real world.

I've seen this kind of self-preservation, never admit a mistake type of management at loads of companies in a number of different countries, so it really doesn't surprise me one bit that the archetypal 'manager' has made the archetypal 'business decision'.

Simple solution. Petrie can go with him.

[Brizo]

Butchers strengths were meant to be that he was an inspirational leader, motivator and man manager. He has failed to bring any of these qualities to the team.

Yesterday he spent most of the time like a statue on the touchline. When the Accies boss was on the touchline he was constantly on the edge of the technical area geeing his players up. When the penalties were being taken his players were all in one unit arms round shoulders; ours weren't. Its a small point but indicative of a unity we totally lacked.

Hamilton played the type of passing game we should be playing. Our sunday amateur hoofball "tactics" were as painful to watch as they've been in previous months. The argument to wait and let him bring his own players in isn't going to change his "philosophy" and fatal tactics such as bringing on OTJ to protect a 0 1 defeat.

I believed the hype about Butcher. Having now seen the reality, he should either bolt or be sacked. Unfortunately economics mean we are probably stuck with him.

[gillythehibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.

Good Post. With the subbing of Heff, to remove an attacker was criminal. All that did was bring them even more on top of us. Collins should have been put on before OTD. Collins certainly no great shakes on the evidence of last few Months but he would have given us a link between midfield and attack and would have held the ball up. He would also have worked the channels. Butcher gambled on us defending a loss. Like we've been able to do that at any time this season as well !!! I want Butcher gone. I didn't want him as Hibs' manager anyway as his style stinks. He has proved the job beyond his technical capabilities. he tried everything in HIS locker to no avail. I'll still support them, but I fear this is another ground-hog day scenario.

GBTH

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Simple solution. Petrie can go with him.

That's the problem, we don't get to decide who stays or goes. You have to remember, STF would be happy with a hundred Rod Petrie's. He is Mr Teflon.

Management's main purpose is to please those who can hire and fire them. Petrie obviously knows the right buttons to press with STF and continues to do so.