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  1. #1
    madhatter
    Left by mutual consent!

    We need to instil style and soul again

    We have no identity anymore. Haven't had it since 2007 as far as I'm concerned. Collins should have been backed, at least in the player revolt but wasn't verbally backed and since then we have went to the *****.

    I'd be happy for Butcher and Malpas to stay next season and get their own players in as long as they instil a "good football" style from top to bottom with the training and pathway to the top team being more seemless. As far as I can see, we have youngsters playing good football and being unable to make the step up to the top team: Sean Welsh, Stefan Scougall, Leigh Griffiths, Callum Booth (loaned out with garbage journeyman brought in). Amongst many others that have been released.

    This is what I see, young teams excelling and playing good stuff, and senior team playing Sunday League football. There needs to be a style that is instilled at the club that no matter what manager comes in abides by. We can't keep swapping managers as this is setting us back years. If a manager leaves, we then, because there is no soul at the place, need to start from the beginning. This is why we continually have 5-6 journeyman that needs cleared out each season. Who'd keep Nelson for instance? Who'd keep McGivern? We have no identity. We need to find our "attractive football" way again. Embed it within our makeup.

    Petrie can leave as he has overseen the worst recent years at this club and continually makes statements of apologies (etc.). Change could have been gradual and people would have been happy but instead you sat on your hands. Now change needs to be drastic and rapid. Something that you are incapable of doing.

    Problem is not the manager. The problem is the soul of the club. This was on the cards a few years ago and nothing has been done. We've been regularly second best to the ****bos and nothing has been done over a lengthy period. This is not any one manager's fault. They all share some of the blame but the one common denominator is Petrie and Farmer.


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  3. #2
    Coaching Staff The Green Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
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    We have no identity anymore. Haven't had it since 2007 as far as I'm concerned. Collins should have been backed, at least in the player revolt but wasn't verbally backed and since then we have went to the *****.

    I'd be happy for Butcher and Malpas to stay next season and get their own players in as long as they instil a "good football" style from top to bottom with the training and pathway to the top team being more seemless. As far as I can see, we have youngsters playing good football and being unable to make the step up to the top team: Sean Welsh, Stefan Scougall, Leigh Griffiths, Callum Booth (loaned out with garbage journeyman brought in). Amongst many others that have been released.

    This is what I see, young teams excelling and playing good stuff, and senior team playing Sunday League football. There needs to be a style that is instilled at the club that no matter what manager comes in abides by. We can't keep swapping managers as this is setting us back years. If a manager leaves, we then, because there is no soul at the place, need to start from the beginning. This is why we continually have 5-6 journeyman that needs cleared out each season. Who'd keep Nelson for instance? Who'd keep McGivern? We have no identity. We need to find our "attractive football" way again. Embed it within our makeup.

    Petrie can leave as he has overseen the worst recent years at this club and continually makes statements of apologies (etc.). Change could have been gradual and people would have been happy but instead you sat on your hands. Now change needs to be drastic and rapid. Something that you are incapable of doing.

    Problem is not the manager. The problem is the soul of the club. This was on the cards a few years ago and nothing has been done. We've been regularly second best to the ****bos and nothing has been done over a lengthy period. This is not any one manager's fault. They all share some of the blame but the one common denominator is Petrie and Farmer.
    ?

  4. #3
    madhatter
    Left by mutual consent!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Green Goblin View Post
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    ?
    He got kicked from Hibs as a youngster. We've got a history of losing youngsters or kicking them out for being too short or some other reason.

    If Griffiths hadn't been kicked out as a youngster, we'd have been stronger and potentially made 1-2million on him. Instead, we kicked him. Got him back on loan and lost out. He's now at Celtic and we'll never get a sniff now.
    Last edited by madhatter; 25-05-2014 at 09:13 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by The Green Goblin View Post
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    ?
    True to an extent, was released as a youngster - that was some time ago though.

  6. #5
    Testimonial Due Paisley Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We have no identity anymore. Haven't had it since 2007 as far as I'm concerned. Collins should have been backed, at least in the player revolt but wasn't verbally backed and since then we have went to the *****.

    I'd be happy for Butcher and Malpas to stay next season and get their own players in as long as they instil a "good football" style from top to bottom with the training and pathway to the top team being more seemless. As far as I can see, we have youngsters playing good football and being unable to make the step up to the top team: Sean Welsh, Stefan Scougall, Leigh Griffiths, Callum Booth (loaned out with garbage journeyman brought in). Amongst many others that have been released.

    This is what I see, young teams excelling and playing good stuff, and senior team playing Sunday League football. There needs to be a style that is instilled at the club that no matter what manager comes in abides by. We can't keep swapping managers as this is setting us back years. If a manager leaves, we then, because there is no soul at the place, need to start from the beginning. This is why we continually have 5-6 journeyman that needs cleared out each season. Who'd keep Nelson for instance? Who'd keep McGivern? We have no identity. We need to find our "attractive football" way again. Embed it within our makeup.

    Petrie can leave as he has overseen the worst recent years at this club and continually makes statements of apologies (etc.). Change could have been gradual and people would have been happy but instead you sat on your hands. Now change needs to be drastic and rapid. Something that you are incapable of doing.

    Problem is not the manager. The problem is the soul of the club. This was on the cards a few years ago and nothing has been done. We've been regularly second best to the ****bos and nothing has been done over a lengthy period. This is not any one manager's fault. They all share some of the blame but the one common denominator is Petrie and Farmer.
    I agree with a lot of what you say except for the last paragraph. The current manager is a HUGE part of the problem. Based on tonight's club statement I guess we are stuck with him and if that's really the case then honestly I despair.

  7. #6
    Coaching Staff The Green Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He got kicked from Hibs as a youngster. We've got a history of losing youngsters or kicking them out for being too short or some other reason.

    If Griffiths hadn't been kicked out as a youngster, we'd have been stronger and potentially made 1-2million on him. Instead, we kicked him. Got him back on loan and lost out. He's now at Celtic and we'll never get a sniff now.

    cheers. didn`t get what you meant for a minute.

  8. #7
    madhatter
    Left by mutual consent!
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
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    True to an extent, was released as a youngster - that was some time ago though.

    Yes, my main point is a batch of youngsters each year disappearing from the club without great words said. They excel at youth levels and just disappear. We keep 3-4 per year - Harris, Stanton, Caldwell, Handling out of a full team and the rest normally get cleared even though they had done so well. There is clearly a lack of soul at the club. It is looking more and more like a pub team now. We have comical half-time entertainment and our subs aren't even on the pitch getting warmed up until there is only 5mins left. It's not a club reaching out to the community, it is a club taking the **** out of the members of the community that support it.

    We should have a direct route between each year group to the top team. Our youth teams should be trained to prepare them for the 1st team at ER not for them to excel to U-21 level to then get released. So, for this to work, we need a style of play that is common all the way up. "Pass and move", "Create space", "Play 4-3-3 with pacey widemen", etc... We keep getting managers that want to play different styles and this is where it is falling apart.

    Constant change in the wrong place.

  9. #8
    Tbf butcher just said similar in his post match interview ... Maybe clearing the decks is what is required


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  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes, my main point is a batch of youngsters each year disappearing from the club without great words said. They excel at youth levels and just disappear. We keep 3-4 per year - Harris, Stanton, Caldwell, Handling out of a full team and the rest normally get cleared even though they had done so well. There is clearly a lack of soul at the club. It is looking more and more like a pub team now. We have comical half-time entertainment and our subs aren't even on the pitch getting warmed up until there is only 5mins left. It's not a club reaching out to the community, it is a club taking the **** out of the members of the community that support it.

    We should have a direct route between each year group to the top team. Our youth teams should be trained to prepare them for the 1st team at ER not for them to excel to U-21 level to then get released. So, for this to work, we need a style of play that is common all the way up. "Pass and move", "Create space", "Play 4-3-3 with pacey widemen", etc... We keep getting managers that want to play different styles and this is where it is falling apart.

    Constant change in the wrong place.
    Makes a lot of sense. Especially regards youth players, style of play and continuity from youth to 1st team.

    Unfortunately, we need to kick it off with another management team though. Whether it would be right or not for the team going forward is now neither here nor there, there's now too much bad blood between the fans and Butcher. Fenlon had his millstone and now Butcher has his. He could continue, may or may not turn it round, but won't be forgiven by a large number. Best to part ways and have a new management team as part of a fresh start along with the other changes. If we could tempt Wenger from Arsenal or Martinez from Everton that would be great! However someone with a similar philosophy on the way the game is played. Who we find like that at our level I don't know.

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