For those who want Butcher gone, here's a thought

[Twa Cairpets]

At ICT, he took four years to build a team to get to a position where they consistently did better than Hibs.

I, for one, thought ICT were a good team to watch when they came to ER - good fast break attacks, with players bought to suit the system that Butcher believes in. If nothing else, if you could transport the entire ICT team to ER tomorrow, it would surely be likely that they would perform to the same or similar level as Butcher had them at ICT - this suggests to me he is a good coach if he gets players that fit into his system. For whatever reason, the players here now are legacies, and he's trying to fit very square pegs into very round holes, for the most part.

To get rid today would to me be insane - relegation would be a disaster, but going into the (hopefully) final game without a manager would be ludicrous.

He must be given an opportunity to build his own team - you can argue till the cows come home about whether he will be allowed/able to do so - but the fact remains that will be the case with any manager.

I'm not convinced with him - it would be bloody hard to be given the winless streak - but I don't think that you can make players do what they're not equipped to do. Would Pep Guardiola be able to get Hibs playing like Barca? We're Hibs, currently a below average top-flight club in a below average league and we get the players we can afford. The manager needs players he can work with to suit his football philosophy. That is where disconnect is right now - the players aren't compatible with the managers preferred system.

[Lester B]

Not buying that. I don't want him out before Saturday but I was there last night and it was tactically inept and the players are scared and he clearly is doing nothing useful to motivate them.

The 'he needs his own players' mantra is becoming pitiful. Pat Fenlon got more out of these players than Butcher has. Any manager should be able to at least keep up the same standard and hopefully improve them. He has made an average team utterly mediocre by his inability to manage the resources he inherited.

[Gus Fring]

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Not buying that. I don't want him out before Saturday but I was there last night and it was tactically inept and the players are scared and he clearly is doing nothing useful to motivate them.

The 'he needs his own players' mantra is becoming pitiful. Pat Fenlon got more out of these players than Butcher has. Any manager should be able to at least keep up the same standard and hopefully improve them. He has made an average team utterly mediocre by his inability to manage the resources he inherited.

They're Pat Fenlons players. He left because he'd "taken the team as far is it could go". With this team he got us beat twice from Hearts and a 9-0 aggregate defeat. There were protests to get rid of him! Where did the oh so wonderful Pat finish when he took over? 11th!

[JimBHibees]

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At ICT, he took four years to build a team to get to a position where they consistently did better than Hibs.

I, for one, thought ICT were a good team to watch when they came to ER - good fast break attacks, with players bought to suit the system that Butcher believes in. If nothing else, if you could transport the entire ICT team to ER tomorrow, it would surely be likely that they would perform to the same or similar level as Butcher had them at ICT - this suggests to me he is a good coach if he gets players that fit into his system. For whatever reason, the players here now are legacies, and he's trying to fit very square pegs into very round holes, for the most part.

To get rid today would to me be insane - relegation would be a disaster, but going into the (hopefully) final game without a manager would be ludicrous.

He must be given an opportunity to build his own team - you can argue till the cows come home about whether he will be allowed/able to do so - but the fact remains that will be the case with any manager.

I'm not convinced with him - it would be bloody hard to be given the winless streak - but I don't think that you can make players do what they're not equipped to do. Would Pep Guardiola be able to get Hibs playing like Barca? We're Hibs, currently a below average top-flight club in a below average league and we get the players we can afford. The manager needs players he can work with to suit his football philosophy. That is where disconnect is right now - the players aren't compatible with the managers preferred system.

Agree with that completely that he needs to be given time however there is no doubt IMO we should be doing better than we are. Even a couple of draws would have seen us safe.

[PatHead]

Wonder where the clamour for Shields is now after his successful stint at Morton.

[Just_Jimmy]

Even if we beat killie, he should go. His record is disgraceful.


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[sven nil]

Sick hearing this mate in fact it borders on weak, OK I will take ICT and throw back Brentford and Sydney .

[Lester B]

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They're Pat Fenlons players. He left because he'd "taken the team as far is it could go". With this team he got us beat twice from Hearts and a 9-0 aggregate defeat. There were protests to get rid of him! Where did the oh so wonderful Pat finish when he took over? 11th!

The comment about Fenlon was in no way praise of him. Perhaps I should have prefaced my comment with the word 'Even'. You want to answer the rest of my post or choose to believe that I was praising Fenlon? They are no longer Pat Fenlon's players. They are Hibs players and Butcher is the Hibs manager. It is his job to get them playing a suitable system after assessing their abilities or lack thereof. Or would you care to debate the wisdom of the three players in the squad who are Butcher's players? Two of whom came on last night and did nothing, the other being barely visible at all in the last few months

[Speedway]

Well here's what's not weak:

Fenlon 'inspired' us to 11th after managing Calderwood's duds

McLeish 'inspired' us to relegation after taking over Duffy's duds.

Butcher could yet finish higher than either of them.

It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

**** off eh? .net has been a platform for haters for every manager we've had in the internet era bar none.

You don't know what you're doing!!

[borstalboy]

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Well here's what's not weak:

Fenlon 'inspired' us to 11th after managing Calderwood's duds

McLeish 'inspired' us to relegation after taking over Duffy's duds.

Butcher could yet finish higher than either of them.

It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

**** off eh? .net has been a platform for haters for every manager we've had in the internet era bar none.

You don't know what you're doing!!

[sven nil]

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Well here's what's not weak:

Fenlon 'inspired' us to 11th after managing Calderwood's duds

McLeish 'inspired' us to relegation after taking over Duffy's duds.

Butcher could yet finish higher than either of them.

It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

**** off eh? .net has been a platform for haters for every manager we've had in the internet era bar none.

You don't know what you're doing!!

Na that is weak given we were not talking about fenlon or mcleish

[Lester B]

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Well here's what's not weak:

Fenlon 'inspired' us to 11th after managing Calderwood's duds

McLeish 'inspired' us to relegation after taking over Duffy's duds.

Butcher could yet finish higher than either of them.

It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

**** off eh? .net has been a platform for haters for every manager we've had in the internet era bar none.

You don't know what you're doing!!

You can do better than that and hyperbole looks desperate. No one appointed in living memory was touted as a tactical genius. Butcher had a decent team at ICT and was regarded by almost all on here as someone who would sort out under achievers and motivate them all. He has singularly failed at that and the proof was there for all to see in Dingwall last night.

[FitbaFolkKen]

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They're Pat Fenlons players. He left because he'd "taken the team as far is it could go". With this team he got us beat twice from Hearts and a 9-0 aggregate defeat. There were protests to get rid of him! Where did the oh so wonderful Pat finish when he took over? 11th!

18% win rate is unacceptable, if he loses another game it becomes less than half Pat's. For someone who made a big deal about the psychological aspect of the game when he arrived the mentality at ER is awfully fragile.

[Gus Fring]

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The comment about Fenlon was in no way praise of him. Perhaps I should have prefaced my comment with the word 'Even'. You want to answer the rest of my post or choose to believe that I was praising Fenlon? They are no longer Pat Fenlon's players. They are Hibs players and Butcher is the Hibs manager. It is his job to get them playing a suitable system after assessing their abilities or lack thereof. Or would you care to debate the wisdom of the three players in the squad who are Butcher's players? Two of whom came on last night and did nothing, the other being barely visible at all in the last few months

Apologies, I read it wrong. I agree with you about the players Butcher brought in in January. I'm sort of hoping they were rushed just to have something to show for it as there was lots of rumours at the time that we were missing our primary targets (Adam Rooney for eg). If rumours are to be believed then that's Petries fault and it looks like he won't be a problem going forward.

I think the problem we have just now is that at least half (I'm being generous) of the squad don't want to be here and aren't good enough. There's only so far you can take mediocre players and I think Terry got an initial response out of them but they've shown in the second half of the season that they just aren't good enough.

He needs to keep a few of the good players and tell the rest to GTF. He can then rebuild the entire squad from the ground up and get them playing the way he likes to play. This needs to happen whatever division we are in.

[FitbaFolkKen]

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It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

It's interesting that you've put this in your post sarcastically, because this is pretty much what is on evidence at ER right now is it not? His record at Hibs is the worst in his career by a long way, apart from Brentford where he was sacked after 23 games with a slightly better record.

[Steve20]

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Well here's what's not weak:

Fenlon 'inspired' us to 11th after managing Calderwood's duds

McLeish 'inspired' us to relegation after taking over Duffy's duds.

Butcher could yet finish higher than either of them.

It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

**** off eh? .net has been a platform for haters for every manager we've had in the internet era bar none.

You don't know what you're doing!!

Where we not bottom by quite a few points when McLeish took over??? Compared to sitting mid-table when Butcher arrived.

[The_Horde]

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Well here's what's not weak:

Fenlon 'inspired' us to 11th after managing Calderwood's duds

McLeish 'inspired' us to relegation after taking over Duffy's duds.

Butcher could yet finish higher than either of them.

It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

**** off eh? .net has been a platform for haters for every manager we've had in the internet era bar none.

You don't know what you're doing!!

Absolutely spot on mate.

[Northernhibee]

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Well here's what's not weak:

Fenlon 'inspired' us to 11th after managing Calderwood's duds

McLeish 'inspired' us to relegation after taking over Duffy's duds.

Butcher could yet finish higher than either of them.

It's funny how mangers are tactical genuises until they come to ER. Then, once inside the Hibernian triangle, they forget how to play, motivate and can't remember where they put the dressing room, now that they've lost it.

**** off eh? .net has been a platform for haters for every manager we've had in the internet era bar none.

You don't know what you're doing!!

Nail on head.

People wanted Fenlon out, people wanted Butcher in, we got what we wanted and we knew there is no overnight fix to our problems.

[cleanyman]

Butcher must go.

5 wins, 3 against Ross County.

Complete and utter dumpling.

[The_Horde]

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Where we not bottom by quite a few points when McLeish took over??? Compared to sitting mid-table when Butcher arrived.

Sitting mid table very early in the season with the likes of Rowan Vine in our side. Wow.

Fenlon has said he walked out because the players weren't listening him. This would have happened anyway.

[Lester B]

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Where we not bottom by quite a few points when McLeish took over??? Compared to sitting mid-table when Butcher arrived.

[Lester B]

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Sitting mid table very early in the season with the likes of Rowan Vine in our side. Wow.

Fenlon has said he walked out because the players weren't listening him. This would have happened anyway.

Isn't it Butcher's job to get them to listen to him? Or at least say something worth listening to??

[The_Horde]

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Isn't it Butcher's job to get them to listen to him? Or at least say something worth listening to??

If Fenlon couldn't get through to players that HE signed what chance has Butcher got?

The players are the people who need to show a lot more.

[sven nil]

Butcher said we were going into county game in form,He has lost the plot if he had it in the fist place.

[FitbaFolkKen]

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Sitting mid table very early in the season with the likes of Rowan Vine in our side. Wow.

Fenlon has said he walked out because the players weren't listening him. This would have happened anyway.

Early in the season, we were 6th at the turn of the year which was half a season. 8 points in 18 games since then.

We were on 28 points after 19 games, which if we had continued that form would see us end the season on 56 points and finish about 4th or 5th in the table.

We should never have been in this situation.

[Beefster]

You know these groups of One Direction fans that stand outside the hotel, arena etc waiting for their idols? They can all be standing quiet but all it takes is one of them to start screaming hysterically before they're all at it.

Hibs.net = One Direction fans.

[Pretty Boy]

Is it not a managers job to have a level of adaptability?

Surely if the players that a manager inherits don't fit a managers preferred style then it is the responsibility of a good manager to try and find a system that is effective.

[Lester B]

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Is it not a managers job to have a level of adaptability?

Surely if the players that a manager inherits don't fit a managers preferred style then it is the responsibility of a good manager to try and find a system that is effective.

Could not agree more. Nail on the head.

[mmmmhibby]

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Even if we beat killie, he should go. His record is disgraceful.


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Correct!!

[scuttle]

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Even if we beat killie, he should go. His record is disgraceful.


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As are his tactics.