PF's views on Hibs

[jeffers]

I have mentioned before that one of my mates is friendly with PF. They caught up recently, I asked my mate what he had to say. Some of it I have posted previously, some of it new. This is what PF told him (or for Blackpoolhibs benefit, what my mate said he told him ):

The highest wage we pay any player is £1800 pw. PF can't understand where the money goes, but we have definitely lost out on players as other teams (Aberdeen was specifically mentioned) have offered players more. His opinion was that not only Aberdeen, but Dundee Utd were paying more than us. And despite getting to two consecutive cup finals his budget was cut for the following season.

He did resign, but received a pay off. He felt against Aberdeen that he had lost the dressing room, the players were no longer following his instructions and offered his resignation after that game - Petrie talked him out of it as we were playing Them in the league cup that coming mid-week. He had a good relationship with RP and his opinion was that RP put in a large number of hours on Hibs behalf, taking on more responsbility after Lindsay and Hyland left - if anything he did too much.

A fee of £285,000 had been agreed with Wolves to sign LG. RP was down there hoping to conclude the deal when they sacked their manager, Dean Saunders came in and he blocked the move. We tried again in the summer, Wolves were not prepared to sell him. We ended up paying just over half the £200,000 that's been quoted to sign LG's "replacement", James Collins.

He felt as fans we had unrealistic expectations and that the players struggled to play at ER due to fans getting on their backs. Supposedly this is a not uncommon view and is held by other teams. Stuart McCall has no interest in ever taking the Hibs job because of it.

Overall he loves Hibs, he felt we are a great club and everything should be in place for us to succeed, but something just isn't right - he inferred that this was down to the direction being set by those in charge, they seemed unable to decide if we wanted to be a big club or merely balance the books. In his time at ER (and this was just a statement, not a dig) he met STF only twice.

I have posted what I was told, up to you if you believe it.

[Winston Ingram]

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I have mentioned before that one of my mates is friendly with PF. They caught up recently, I asked my mate what he had to say. Some of it I have posted previously, some of it new. This is what PF told him (or for Blackpoolhibs benefit, what my mate said he told him ):

The highest wage we pay any player is £1800 pw. PF can't understand where the money goes, but we have definitely lost out on players as other teams (Aberdeen was specifically mentioned) have offered players more. His opinion was that not only Aberdeen, but Dundee Utd were paying more than us. And despite getting to two consecutive cup finals his budget was cut for the following season.

He did resign, but received a pay off. He felt against Aberdeen that he had lost the dressing room, the players were no longer following his instructions and offered his resignation after that game - Petrie talked him out of it as we were playing Them in the league cup that coming mid-week. He had a good relationship with RP and his opinion was that RP put in a large number of hours on Hibs behalf, taking on more responsbility after Lindsay and Hyland left - if anything he did too much.

A fee of £285,000 had been agreed with Wolves to sign LG. RP was down there hoping to conclude the deal when they sacked their manager, Dean Saunders came in and he blocked the move. We tried again in the summer, Wolves were not prepared to sell him. We ended up paying just over half the £200,000 that's been quoted to sign LG's "replacement", James Collins.

He felt as fans we had unrealistic expectations and that the players struggled to play at ER due to fans getting on their backs. Supposedly this is a not uncommon view and is held by other teams. Stuart McCall has no interest in ever taking the Hibs job because of it.

Overall he loves Hibs, he felt we are a great club and everything should be in place for us to succeed, but something just isn't right - he inferred that this was down to the direction being set by those in charge, they seemed unable to decide if we wanted to be a big club or merely balance the books. In his time at ER (and this was just a statement, not a dig) he met STF only twice.

I have posted what I was told, up to you if you believe it.

Cheers for the info

[Tom Hart RIP]

Good post. Seems accurate to me

[easty]

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He felt as fans we had unrealistic expectations and that the players struggled to play at ER due to fans getting on their backs. Supposedly this is a not uncommon view and is held by other teams. Stuart McCall has no interest in ever taking the Hibs job because of it.

As fans we (or at least I) expected little from Pat and he gave us even less, nice of him to shift the blame from himself to the supporters for the players lack of performance.

The Stuart McCall comment is an odd one. Did we ask him to come to us?

I better put it out there that I have no interest in ever dating Miranda Kerr.

[R'Albin]

Reading that Griffiths bit is just sickening. We'd be nowhere near where we are now if we had him.

[Spike Mandela]

Sounds plausible and not overly bitter however he of course doesn't mention any of his own shortcomings.

I have often wondered if, despite having a reasonable budget in SPL terms, we limit our chances of signing better players by capping the maximum wage available and lose out to Aberdeen or Dundee Utd who might be more flexible for better players.

[Captain Trips]

To me it just sounds like excuses TBH, not doubting any of it was said but it appears to be Rod and the fans most at fault.

[smurf]

The "unrealistic expectations" stuff does my head in...

Thanks though for the information.

[Michael]

Strange. I'm surprised there is a wage cap. Why wouldn't we be more flexible?

[Pretty Boy]

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The "unrealistic expectations" stuff does my head in...

Thanks though for the information.

This.

I expect to finish in the top 6, I expect not to lose 9-0 in Europe and I expect not to go out of the League Cup with a whimper. How unrealistic of me.

Not one mention of his own many shortcomings.

[S4uzee]

Very good of you to share the info . As mentioned, the Griffiths part is sickening

[SmashinGlass]

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I have mentioned before that one of my mates is friendly with PF. They caught up recently, I asked my mate what he had to say. Some of it I have posted previously, some of it new. This is what PF told him (or for Blackpoolhibs benefit, what my mate said he told him ):

The highest wage we pay any player is £1800 pw. PF can't understand where the money goes, but we have definitely lost out on players as other teams (Aberdeen was specifically mentioned) have offered players more. His opinion was that not only Aberdeen, but Dundee Utd were paying more than us. And despite getting to two consecutive cup finals his budget was cut for the following season.

He did resign, but received a pay off. He felt against Aberdeen that he had lost the dressing room, the players were no longer following his instructions and offered his resignation after that game - Petrie talked him out of it as we were playing Them in the league cup that coming mid-week. He had a good relationship with RP and his opinion was that RP put in a large number of hours on Hibs behalf, taking on more responsbility after Lindsay and Hyland left - if anything he did too much.

A fee of £285,000 had been agreed with Wolves to sign LG. RP was down there hoping to conclude the deal when they sacked their manager, Dean Saunders came in and he blocked the move. We tried again in the summer, Wolves were not prepared to sell him. We ended up paying just over half the £200,000 that's been quoted to sign LG's "replacement", James Collins.

He felt as fans we had unrealistic expectations and that the players struggled to play at ER due to fans getting on their backs. Supposedly this is a not uncommon view and is held by other teams. Stuart McCall has no interest in ever taking the Hibs job because of it.

Overall he loves Hibs, he felt we are a great club and everything should be in place for us to succeed, but something just isn't right - he inferred that this was down to the direction being set by those in charge, they seemed unable to decide if we wanted to be a big club or merely balance the books. In his time at ER (and this was just a statement, not a dig) he met STF only twice.

I have posted what I was told, up to you if you believe it.

I can remember Butcher alluding to this when he was still with ICT and coming down to ER for a game. Sure it was last season and he said something along the lines of keeping the game tight for 20 mins or so and the fans will get restless.

FWIW, I think that part is spot on. As fans, we are restless and do get on at the players. I accept that we want a minimum performance level, but we won't ever help by abusing the team. Years of psychological research has taught us that, yet we persist with this perpetual abuse.

My tin hat is firmly on here, as I accept that my views will probably get some on here wound up, but it is what it is. If we support the team, they will derive more confidence from that.

[jeffers]

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As fans we (or at least I) expected little from Pat and he gave us even less, nice of him to shift the blame from himself to the supporters for the players lack of performance.

The Stuart McCall comment is an odd one. Did we ask him to come to us?

I better put it out there that I have no interest in ever dating Miranda Kerr.

I think the expectations bit was not so much that he disagreed where we should be as a club just that we were expecting it to happen too soon. He wasn't absolving himself from blame, but in his view he'd inherited a mess from Calderwood and felt it needed time to address - much the same as folk are saying with TB. Re the fans, again he wasn't saying that was why players weren't performing, just that it didn't help.

He is on good terms with Stuart McCall. He seemed to think we were considering him either before or after Yogi.

And fwiw I am not really defending PF. By all accounts he is a lovely bloke, but I felt he should have gone after the cup final at the end of last season. But he did acknowledge that he got things wrong by resigning, not waiting 'til he was sacked.

[Captain Trips]

"The highest wage we pay any player is £1800 pw"

Is it the highest we are prepared to pay a player is 1.8k pw or was that what our highest player was on at time as these are very different things?

If it is cap I would question this then based on what he says later regarding Leigh, would we really have secured Leigh on 1.8k pw? surely he was on at least that at Wolves? We have a cap and are chucking about fees and bids in excess of 100k? Seems a bit strange to me.

[Captain Trips]

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I can remember Butcher alluding to this when he was still with ICT and coming down to ER for a game. Sure it was last season and he said something along the lines of keeping the game tight for 20 mins or so and the fans will get restless.

FWIW, I think that part is spot on. As fans, we are restless and do get on at the players. I accept that we want a minimum performance level, but we won't ever help by abusing the team. Years of psychological research has taught us that, yet we persist with this perpetual abuse.

My tin hat is firmly on here, as I accept that my views will probably get some on here wound up, but it is what it is. If we support the team, they will derive more confidence from that.

I think its an easy get out from players etc, I have been watching Hibs and been to a lot of other games in various ends of stadiums in over 20yrs and we are no worse than anyone else.

[BH Hibs]

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This.

I expect to finish in the top 6, I expect not to lose 9-0 in Europe and I expect not to go out of the League Cup with a whimper. How unrealistic of me.

Not one mention of his own many shortcomings.

Absolutely. Two seasons with no Rangers and a weakened Hearts I'd have expected top four but bottom six is a disgrace and hopefully that's the worst it gets. As for players being picked on geez a break. What should be our expectations ? A revolving door of players who don't give a **** and bail out when things get tough?

[easty]

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I think the expectations bit was not so much that he disagreed where we should be as a club just that we were expecting it to happen too soon. He wasn't absolving himself from blame, but in his view he'd inherited a mess from Calderwood and felt it needed time to address - much the same as folk are saying with TB. Re the fans, again he wasn't saying that was why players weren't performing, just that it didn't help.

He is on good terms with Stuart McCall. He seemed to think we were considering him either before or after Yogi.

To be honest mate, I dont think anything Pat Fenlon says, about anything, ever, will make me happy. I'd probably nit-pick at everything.

Misery and abject failure are the two things I'll remember about his time at Easter Road. I wish I could forget all about him.

[HH81]

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Absolutely. Two seasons with no Rangers and a weakened Hearts I'd have expected top four but bottom six is a disgrace and hopefully that's the worst it gets. As for players being picked on geez a break. What should be our expectations ? A revolving door of players who don't give a **** and bail out when things get tough?

We made the Scottish cup final, twice.

That was a big plus.

[Spike Mandela]

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"The highest wage we pay any player is £1800 pw"

Is it the highest we are prepared to pay a player is 1.8k pw or was that what our highest player was on at time as these are very different things?

If it is cap I would question this then based on what he says later regarding Leigh, would we really have secured Leigh on 1.8k pw? surely he was on at least that at Wolves? We have a cap and are chucking about fees and bids in excess of 100k? Seems a bit strange to me.

It's still £93,600 a year. Not bad if there is bonuses on top. Still would be good if we had flexibility to offer our top targets and best current players a higher weekly wage by signing less players and more quality.

[The Sea-gull]

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I have mentioned before that one of my mates is friendly with PF. They caught up recently, I asked my mate what he had to say. Some of it I have posted previously, some of it new. This is what PF told him (or for Blackpoolhibs benefit, what my mate said he told him ):

The highest wage we pay any player is £1800 pw. PF can't understand where the money goes, but we have definitely lost out on players as other teams (Aberdeen was specifically mentioned) have offered players more. His opinion was that not only Aberdeen, but Dundee Utd were paying more than us. And despite getting to two consecutive cup finals his budget was cut for the following season.

He did resign, but received a pay off. He felt against Aberdeen that he had lost the dressing room, the players were no longer following his instructions and offered his resignation after that game - Petrie talked him out of it as we were playing Them in the league cup that coming mid-week. He had a good relationship with RP and his opinion was that RP put in a large number of hours on Hibs behalf, taking on more responsbility after Lindsay and Hyland left - if anything he did too much.

A fee of £285,000 had been agreed with Wolves to sign LG. RP was down there hoping to conclude the deal when they sacked their manager, Dean Saunders came in and he blocked the move. We tried again in the summer, Wolves were not prepared to sell him. We ended up paying just over half the £200,000 that's been quoted to sign LG's "replacement", James Collins.

He felt as fans we had unrealistic expectations and that the players struggled to play at ER due to fans getting on their backs. Supposedly this is a not uncommon view and is held by other teams. Stuart McCall has no interest in ever taking the Hibs job because of it.

Overall he loves Hibs, he felt we are a great club and everything should be in place for us to succeed, but something just isn't right - he inferred that this was down to the direction being set by those in charge, they seemed unable to decide if we wanted to be a big club or merely balance the books. In his time at ER (and this was just a statement, not a dig) he met STF only twice.

I have posted what I was told, up to you if you believe it.

Pretty much all of what you have said sounds like it could be true based on stuff I have read on here, heard in the media and one or two bits I have been told by people who mix with individuals close to the club.

The £1800k per week bit I believe and wonder how far off what Aberdeen and United pay this is. Could it be that they perhaps pay £2k per week and this would tie in with the £200 or so Tom English (who also says he speaks reasonably regular with Pat Fenlon) says we were short of when bidding for a couple of players who went to Aberdeen. I also belive budgets will ahve been cut, as they have at many other clubs, as I don't think our finances are as healthy as some would like to think and we are a particularly careful club when it comes to this.

The bit about him offering his resignation after the Aberdeen game has done the rounds before. Who knows if it was true or not. It either has some substance or is just one of these internet myths that has become fact. Also don't doubt that RP does a lot for Hibs and perhaps does do too much which is perhaps part of the problem. The appointment of Dempster may reflect that RP realises this too.

The bit about Griffiths is a little bit like the resignation thing - has done the rounds so there is either something there or it is a complete myth that has been said so many times by so many it has become FACT. You offer a bit more insight at least and you say how you got your info but again there is porbably something in it but nothing will be belived as gospel unless it is directly quoted to a really credible primary source and we'll likely never get that.

The James Collins transfer fee will always be 200k now. Whether it was or wasn't, unless someone comes out and tells us what the deal was it will always be quoted as 200k. I blame the club in a way for this because if it wasn't then they could have clarified this at the time but they just allowed the 200k to be widely reported, probably as it was thought to be good PR.

I don't agree that we have unrealistic expectations but the crowd can be edgy at times. Its more a chicken and egg thing though - what happened first the team being rubbish or the crowd slagging off players? Would not be surprised if we have made enquireis about Stuart McCall. In fact would be dissappointed if we hadn't. Not surprised if that is up there in his reasons for not wanting the job either as am sure he has mentioned this before in interviews - mentioned that the crowd at ER get on top of the team, not that he wouldn't take the job coz of it.

Believe the stuff in the last paragraph. Never doubted that Pat had a bond and an affection for the club. Just don't think he should ever have been our manager in the first place; nothing personal against him, he was just not qualified enough.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

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I can remember Butcher alluding to this when he was still with ICT and coming down to ER for a game. Sure it was last season and he said something along the lines of keeping the game tight for 20 mins or so and the fans will get restless.

FWIW, I think that part is spot on. As fans, we are restless and do get on at the players. I accept that we want a minimum performance level, but we won't ever help by abusing the team. Years of psychological research has taught us that, yet we persist with this perpetual abuse.

My tin hat is firmly on here, as I accept that my views will probably get some on here wound up, but it is what it is. If we support the team, they will derive more confidence from that.

I also think this. Most managers will come to ER and tell their players to keep it tight for about 15/20 mins because they know the fans will start going mental. Dundee United done it earlier on in the season. Mcnamara & McCall do it when they come here, because they know what the fans are like.

[Captain Trips]

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It's still £93,600 a year. Not bad if there is bonuses on top. Still would be good if we had flexibility to offer our top targets and best current players a higher weekly wage by signing less players and more quality.

I do not know if good or bad compared to rivals what I am saying to me it doesnt make sense as I cannot see Leigh being on less than that at Wolves and with the fees we were meant to be chucking about I just do not think Leigh would have taken £1.8k after a good season and I think he was maybe on more at Wolves.

[easty]

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We made the Scottish cup final, twice.

That was a big plus.

It was, until we actually had to go there.

[jeffers]

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"The highest wage we pay any player is £1800 pw"

Is it the highest we are prepared to pay a player is 1.8k pw or was that what our highest player was on at time as these are very different things?

If it is cap I would question this then based on what he says later regarding Leigh, would we really have secured Leigh on 1.8k pw? surely he was on at least that at Wolves? We have a cap and are chucking about fees and bids in excess of 100k? Seems a bit strange to me.

My understanding was that is what we are prepared to pay, we try and "sweeten" the deal with signing on fees. Totally agree re LG, don't know how we could have expected him to sign for that. As far as I know he was on £3000 pw and we were paying Wolves £1000 of that.

[Fergus52]

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I can remember Butcher alluding to this when he was still with ICT and coming down to ER for a game. Sure it was last season and he said something along the lines of keeping the game tight for 20 mins or so and the fans will get restless.

FWIW, I think that part is spot on. As fans, we are restless and do get on at the players. I accept that we want a minimum performance level, but we won't ever help by abusing the team. Years of psychological research has taught us that, yet we persist with this perpetual abuse.

My tin hat is firmly on here, as I accept that my views will probably get some on here wound up, but it is what it is. If we support the team, they will derive more confidence from that.

Everything you said there is completely correct, but it'll never catch on.

I'm pretty sure a lot of folk go to Easter Road just to vent

[The Harp Awakes]

He felt as fans we had unrealistic expectations

I've no doubt PF has this view as I've heard these comments attributed to him before.

I actually think Hibs fans have grown to accept mediocrity and our level of expectation is less than what it should be. For years we have been outperformed by Clubs with a fraction of our infrastructure, turnover, fan base etc. Is it unrealistic to believe that we should be outperforming these Clubs consistently

[BH Hibs]

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I also think this. Most managers will come to ER and tell their players to keep it tight for about 15/20 mins because they know the fans will start going mental. Dundee United done it earlier on in the season. Mcnamara & McCall do it when they come here, because they know what the fans are like.

If the fans see that the tram is trying to break down a team and giving their all they will be encouraged in my opinion. If they're just humping balls up the park to a lone striker then that's when the frustration sets in.

[Captain Trips]

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My understanding was that is what we are prepared to pay, we try and "sweeten" the deal with signing on fees. Totally agree re LG, don't know how we could have expected him to sign for that. As far as I know he was on £3000 pw and we were paying Wolves £1000 of that.

Guesswork I guess from us but £3k pw at Wolves sounds very plausible and after a good season he could expect more if he moved this is why I am doubting the wage cap part as it isnt making sense. A wage cap in entirety makes sense say 50k pw and you can pay players from that so some maybe on 3k some 2k until you reach your limits.

[Boyle89]

Fans have unrealistic expectations pat? Sorry for not wanting to get horsed 5-1 in a cup final against our biggest rivals. Sorry for not wanting to be humiliated in Europe, breaking a record for the biggest aggregate loss. Sorry for thinking, that with two of better teams out of the running, we would finish higher up the league. Sorry pat.
This is not a dig at the op btw I just hate the fans stuff.
As many others have said the griffiths thing is gutting if it's true. He will be top scorer next season I'm sure of it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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This.

I expect to finish in the top 6, I expect not to lose 9-0 in Europe and I expect not to go out of the League Cup with a whimper. How unrealistic of me.

Not one mention of his own many shortcomings.

Indeed. It's hardly glory hunting. There's nothing unrealistic in believing a club of Hibs' size in Scottish football shouldn't be worrying about relegation AGAIN. We aren't meeting REALISTIC minimum requirements.